I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anything

[bryce777]

First off, the game is buggy. Not quite TOEE buggy, but at least as buggy as fallout 2 and probably more. It needs a patch, and I am guessing it'll take 6 months to get a decent patch going that addresses the bulk of the issues, and longer to test it.

Second, it is good. Surprisingly good. I am no graphics whore, but I was pleasantly surprised by how good it looks. For its paradigm, of course. Some of the artwork itself is kind of goofy, but overall I was surprised at how high quality it was - state of the art...for 1991 at least.

The game system. It is VERY reminescent of wizardry 7. if anyhing, I think it borrows too much, but it is still pretty good, and I enjoyed multiclassing a lot. There are also tons of items, and lots of very rare items from what I have gathered talking to other beta testers - I have played through the game quite a few times now and there are lots of neat items I have only seen in one game. Also, there are lots of choices where you can only pick one skill or one item to learn/obtain. I thought this was a nice touch.

The story. Here is where the fun is. If I did not know about Cleve's proclivity towards racism, I would not think anything of it except that sometimes the writing is bombastic and over the top...and in other places just plain ludicrous. Overall the writing is not too bad, though. The story focuses rather heavily on the Star Child. The Star Child is the last vestige of the Old Race. As you go through the game, you learn about a great war between the Old Race and the animal-like races that are like half man half dog, etc. Before the Star Child is found, you need to find and prepare an Old Race base and its robotic defenses (til then the game was purely magic based) to fight off the hordes of evil halfhuman races(especially the half gorillas who are the most vile of them all!!!). They don't come out and say halfhuman, but that's basically what it is. Then, you have a bunch of choices, but the 'good' choice is you bring the Star Child back and he will lead the way into a new and glorious future, and will give your characters superhuman Old Race powers by turning them into full humans (again it doesn't say this but this is what's implied).

So, overall it is an 8 as for playing it, and a 10/10 for humor value.

 

[Rahman]

this will be interesting.

 

[Norfleet]

I've never even heard of this game from now, so I looked them up and went over to their website. Isn't it a little unprofessional to get into a public mudslinging match with a fansite(?) over something like this, whatever it was?

So, uh, is 8 out of 10(?) a good rating, or a bad rating? You didn't quite mention a point of reference. Are we talking about a linear scale, or an asymptotic scale?

 

[Psilon]

It can't be asymptotic, because a 10/10 for humor value would then mean that Grimoire is infinitely funny.

 

[Shagnak]

It can't be asymptotic, because a 10/10 for humor value would then mean that Grimoire is infinitely funny.

Well, maybe it is. Maybe it makes your head explode with the infinite funniness of it all.

 

[bryce777]

Well, these things are never quite linear. I suppose more like a richter scale.

I laughed hard enough that I was knocked out of my chair a few times, which is pretty damn high on the richter scale.

As for a point of reference, it is like a really really good game from 1991, but with some laughably stupid parts thrown in - some amusing, some not. I like it not quite as much as wiz 7, but it has a lot of the same satisfying party building, etc.

 

[Shagnak]

So how long do you guess-timate the game to be? I got the impression that it was pretty damn huge; but perhaps not that huge if you have been thru multiple times.

I take it the game is in the same "play-mode" as the Wiz series? i.e. step-wise movement, turn based, 90 degree turning, etc.

Oh...and how much of your hard drive does the thing take up? Is it going to be feasible as a try-before-you-buy over the internet?

 

[bryce777]

It is hard for me to say, lengthwise.

I had to restart many times due to bugs, but I played through it this weekend but I play very fast in general once I know a game in and out. I'd say it is around the length of BGII, though.

As for size, I will try to remember to look at my HDD but I am pretty sure it was at least under 100 megabytes.

 

[Seven]

Well despite any positive aspects that the game might display I'll still boycott it; it's still made by Cleve.

 

[LlamaGod]

How many useless stats and/or skills are there? I Noticed there are alot of bullshit stats that are there just to make things more annoying (not "complex" as cleve likes to think). Thats a thing that was annoying in Wiz 7, having all this shit to manage that is just more bothering then fun.

And how easy flowing is classes/races combos and group set up, does it require a certain mix or can you do whatever? Thats one of the main things that I hated about Wiz7. How you had to have a near exact combination of races/classes in your group.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Careful, man, Cleve has those titanium bones. Or if all else fails he can suffocate you in the rolls of fat.

 

[Brillo]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

The story focuses rather heavily on the Star Child. The Star Child is the last vestige of the Old Race. As you go through the game, you learn about a great war between the Old Race and the animal-like races that are like half man half dog, etc. Before the Star Child is found, you need to find and prepare an Old Race base and its robotic defenses (til then the game was purely magic based) to fight off the hordes of evil halfhuman races(especially the half gorillas who are the most vile of them all!!!). They don't come out and say halfhuman, but that's basically what it is. Then, you have a bunch of choices, but the 'good' choice is you bring the Star Child back and he will lead the way into a new and glorious future, and will give your characters superhuman Old Race powers by turning them into full humans (again it doesn't say this but this is what's implied).

Heh. So basically it's RAHOWA? I mean damn, this is like the sci fi/fantasy version of every neo-nazi and christian identity nutjob's fantasy. It's screwed up that this guy is actually like this in real life, but shoving that bullshit in a game should not be glossed over.

 

[Saran]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

The story focuses rather heavily on the Star Child. The Star Child is the last vestige of the Old Race. As you go through the game, you learn about a great war between the Old Race and the animal-like races that are like half man half dog, etc. Before the Star Child is found, you need to find and prepare an Old Race base and its robotic defenses (til then the game was purely magic based) to fight off the hordes of evil halfhuman races(especially the half gorillas who are the most vile of them all!!!). They don't come out and say halfhuman, but that's basically what it is. Then, you have a bunch of choices, but the 'good' choice is you bring the Star Child back and he will lead the way into a new and glorious future, and will give your characters superhuman Old Race powers by turning them into full humans (again it doesn't say this but this is what's implied).

Heh. So basically it's RAHOWA? I mean damn, this is like the sci fi/fantasy version of every neo-nazi and christian identity nutjob's fantasy. It's screwed up that this guy is actually like this in real life, but shoving that bullshit in a game should not be glossed over.

If Bryce isnt just joking around, then yea, those people that said his game in no way reflects his political views are full of shit, nearly all of the above sounds like something a WN would do if he was trying to make a fantasy game.

I wonder if Corwin will still say "Judge the game, not the Developer" when the game is finally released.

 

[Elwro]

OMG! You've violated your NDA! Run! Cleve will send Desotto Associates in Kentucky after you!
Anyway, thx for the info, quite an interesting read. I thought the game was utter bs.

 

[theverybigslayer]

Good forum topic!
Morons are seeking political views in Grimoire.
Haven't you noticed yet the Star Child is Hitler?

 

[Claw]

As for a point of reference, it is like a really really good game from 1991, but with some laughably stupid parts thrown in - some amusing, some not.

Well, in that case I guess I already have enough really good games from the ninties to play.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Good forum topic!
Morons are seeking political views in Grimoire.
Haven't you noticed yet the Star Child is Hitler?

That should be obvious to every Aryan, I would think

 

[Goliath]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

Heh. So basically it's RAHOWA? I mean damn, this is like the sci fi/fantasy version of every neo-nazi and christian identity nutjob's fantasy. It's screwed up that this guy is actually like this in real life, but shoving that bullshit in a game should not be glossed over.

Most CRPGs feature very reactionary ideology. Fantasy CRPGs are generally based on a romanticized variant of the middle ages. Sorry, but modern liberal ideology in such a context is just wrong. My RPGish game (a roguelike) is based on the Warhammer 40K universe developed by Games Workshop and that world is definetly fascist beyond repair. In fact in my game you can join the inquisition to burn heretics who oppose the rule of the emporer (the god-like dictator of mankind whose regime is based on religious brain-washing and limitless violent tyranny). One NPC in my game belongs to the monodominants faction of the inquisition which believes that humans are the master race an all other species must be exterminated... And goddamn I love him.
I think CRPGs need more mature elements (not this childish PC fairy tale fluff). Arcanum was great because its game world actually contained such things: segregation (remember the whole orcs thing), sexism, rape etc.
I think it's good if a game contains such stuff because it makes the world more "real" and interesting.
Of course the player should always have a choice.
I almost always play the goody two shoes way BTW but that's mainly because evil characters in most CRPGs are punished for being evil (you miss quests, get less rewards, etc.) and are just pathetic little trouble-makers. It feels like you're locked in a kindergarten where the nanny always tells the kids that evil never triumphs. Of course if you've been out in the real world for a while you no that this isn't true at all.
"Evil" is such an immature concept. There are just people with different interests and mindsets and it would be great if more RPGs would actually represent this fact in their game worlds. Believeable (!) factions - that's something I request in the name of all CRPG gamers above the age of twelve.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

You're missing the point. Which is that Grimoire was made by an apparent Neo-Nazi, not some geeks who like to roleplay "evil" characters.

 

[pyrrho12]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

Most CRPGs feature very reactionary ideology. Fantasy CRPGs are generally based on a romanticized variant of the middle ages. Sorry, but modern liberal ideology in such a context is just wrong.

The interesting point here, I think, is how Cleve's fantasy world seems to coincide with his messed-up real-world opinions. It's the messed-up part that makes things so entertaining. I wonder if the Star Child is going to be seriously overweight and living in a 400 square meter basement shaped like his mother's bosom?

My RPGish game (a roguelike) is based on the Warhammer 40K universe developed by Games Workshop and that world is definetly fascist beyond repair.

Yeah, but the WH40k universe is a nightmare. It's meant to be a nightmare. The interesting speculation in this thread is that Grimoire's gonna be more like Cleve's wet dream of race war... And before anyone starts branching on it, I don't want to know what a game based on one of Exitum's wet dreams would be like.

I think CRPGs need more mature elements (not this childish PC fairy tale fluff).

Mature elements are good... as long as they're well done. Moral ambiguity and the ability to follow different paths are great. Pixelated nudity and exploding body parts may allow a game to claim mature content, but generally add nothing to its play value. The options to kill children for XP and rape chickens for gold are just stupid.

Knowing what a great writer Cleve is, from encountering him on usenet many years ago and seeing how well he and Exitum played with one another just now, I'll go out on a limb and say the chance of any "mature" content in his game being well handled are around zero.

I almost always play the goody two shoes way BTW but that's mainly because evil characters in most CRPGs are punished for being evil (you miss quests, get less rewards, etc.) and are just pathetic little trouble-makers.

I dislike the evil characters in most CRPGs because they're so poorly written, and there isn't usually any motivation to do evil things other than to be so EEEEVIL! Hm... Maybe someone should contact SJG and do a Munchkin CRPG.

 

[Elwro]

Well, Cleve has responded on his main page. On the one hand he says that bryce777 is, of course, lying and the posted info is all false. But on the other hand he seems to admit that he included bryce777 among the betatesters.
Strange, eh? If someone wanted to post some funny stuff about Grimoire they wouldn't need to be betatesters at all...
So it seems to me that Cleve is just ashamed to admit that the breathtaking "Star Child in the land of subhumans" saga is actually in.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Well, since the story twist doesn't kick in until later, he has plenty of time to change the story and then claim that bryce777 lied. Pretty pathetic, but what would you expect from an idiot who tried to sue RPGCodex...

 

[Goliath]

Re: I have decided to violate my Grimoire NDA. Ask me anyth

The interesting point here, I think, is how Cleve's fantasy world seems to coincide with his messed-up real-world opinions. It's the messed-up part that makes things so entertaining. I wonder if the Star Child is going to be seriously overweight and living in a 400 square meter basement shaped like his mother's bosom?

Yeah, but the WH40k universe is a nightmare. It's meant to be a nightmare. The interesting speculation in this thread is that Grimoire's gonna be more like Cleve's wet dream of race war...

Why do think that? Cleve doesn't sound like a nazi to me. He sounds like a misantrophic paranoid libertarian.
If making not-so-nice comments about other ethnic groups turns you into a nazi most people in the world are nazis...

I dislike the evil characters in most CRPGs because they're so poorly written, and there isn't usually any motivation to do evil things other than to be so EEEEVIL! Hm...

That's because the standard CRPG concept of "evil" is just stilly. The evil sorcerer wants to destroy the world because ... well because he's just evil!
A mature RPG would feature characters with understandable motivations and lots of moral ambiguity. Goody Flawless who helps everyone vs. Dr. Evil who wants to destroy everything just because. That's silly and childish.
A well written CRPG would have no clearly "good" or "bad" guys.

 

[Goliath]

You're missing the point. Which is that Grimoire was made by an apparent Neo-Nazi, not some geeks who like to roleplay "evil" characters.

Lets assume Cleve is a nazi (I don't belive that): What's the problem?
Do you also boycott H.P. Lovecraft? He was a reactionary racist whose stories also contain parts where he describes how ugly the people of those lesser races are you know...
How do you know if you buy something in a shop that the shop owner isn't a nazi? or a pedophile or a liberal or whatever you hate? You can't and it's not important anyway.
A few bucks in the pocket of some nut won't change the world.
This whole "Boycott the Nazi Cleve!"-thing is just stupid.
Grimore will run on Windows right? Windows was programmed by pedophiles, racists, gays, zionist baby killers, rapists, nigger-lovers, Diablo-fans, republicans, sushi eaters, bible bashers, bible burners and free mansons (given the number of programmers who worked on the Windows source base there is solid statistical evidence that this statement is actually true) - so you're already supporting evil!

 

[Human Shield]

Can you pick black character protraits?