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Horizon Zero Dawn, open world PS4 action-RPG from Killzone devs and FO:NV lead writer John Gonzales

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Infinitron, May 10, 2014.

  1. Anthony Davis Obsidian Entertainment Developer

    Anthony Davis
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    Click here and disable ads!

    He did write House. I know somewhere here on the Codex he got a lot of love for the Survivalist in Honest Hearts too.
     
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  2. Kem0sabe Arcane

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    Horizon is an rpg
     
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  3. Kem0sabe Arcane

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  4. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    PC release, go.
     
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  5. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
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    Codex 2014
    Your best bet is PS Now. :M
     
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  6. Paul_cz Erudite

    Paul_cz
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    Never gonna happen..officially. Emulation someday.
     
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  7. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Meh. The story went to shit pretty fast because the villain was retarded.

    Also Alloy is as interesting as another Mary Sue.

    Overall the impact of the story is not really there.

    PS: I don't know what this guy is talking about. Objectively the game story is shit when your main protagonist and villain are un-interesting to say the least. Subjectively or with a lot of indulgence someone could say that the story was ok but honestly, this guy is just embellishing things.

    The main story is pretty shallow. Theoretically the game world has potential for handling different and powerful themes but the implementation really lacks any cohesion around one main theme therefore it fails to make a long lasting impact. Or to say anything about something. It feels like it was sanitized by some retarded SJW: Keep it safe. Don't show real horror. And so on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  8. DeepOcean Arcane

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    Really interesting insights, dunno how the story on Horizon is but based on Guerrilla past efforts, they fucking SUCK at story telling, pretty interesting how he fought to remove the horse from the game and how that made sense, this kind of utter blindness to important world building aspects is the number one reason why so many developers fail at creating interesting worlds and stories, they underestimate how little details could make the difference and you end making bizarre worlds like Fallout 3.

    For people that underestimate the impact of talented people on a team, if this person is on the right position and is allowed to make his contribution, he could alone turn around a whole project.
     
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  9. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Standard PR drone speak: Horizon has no branching narrative, but at least it's exciting, cool and cinematic. Who can ask for more?

    Waste of talent. But I guess the pay is good.
     
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  10. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
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    Horizon has a pretty good story, better than most rpgs.
     
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  11. Nyast Learned

    Nyast
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    Finished it today, and I agree the story was good. It had me genuinely interested. Not the dialogues though, which as usual in that kind of game, sucked. Also, considering how bad the loot / items are, I wouldn't call it an RPG. At best, an action/adventure game with light RPG elements.
     
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  12. DeepOcean Arcane

    DeepOcean
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    Like The Witcher 3.
     
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  13. Cross Scholar

    Cross
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    If scenes like this are representative of the game's narrative, it has to be one of the worst written RPG's of all time:

     
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  14. toro Arcane

    toro
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    If it was so good then please tell us more about the villain. Pretty please.
     
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  15. toro Arcane

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    Yep. The scene is quite representative for the rest of the game.

    But to be honest, the story is good up to a point but then they shoehorned the villain. Actually there are two villains: one is a human white male and one is an AI. The first one is a SJW fantasy enemy and the second one has no reason to exist.

    Now, the game is long enough and they paid attention to details therefore most people will be busy exploring or fighting therefore they will not notice that the main story is retarded.

    However once someone finishes the game then within 5 minutes it must realize that the story is retarded and it cannot be defended.

    Show Spoiler
    No sane human would design and build Hades. It makes no sense.

    Also why Hades is capable of flying while Gaia is stuck in the ground?
     
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  16. Bohrain Learned

    Bohrain
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    It feels like game journos praise every title that attempts to have more complex plot and dialogue compared to Sonic 3 as God's gift to writing no matter how shit it is.
     
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  17. Rean Codex Grammar Police Patron

    Rean
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    I'm going to join in the Whedon love here although it is OT. Angel is my favourite of all his shows, but Whedon as a writer and director never let his personal views override his amazing personal talent. Angel was a great "boys own" show that actually said, yes, men can still be strong, powerful heroes.

    Whedon can seem like an absolute asshole in interviews, but when he made a TV show or a film he always let the story and the characters take centre place.

    As for Gonzales? Bro. Hope he comes back to RPGs some day.
     
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  18. Zarniwoop Destiny Cleanser Patron

    Zarniwoop
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    Did you actually play the game?

    Show Spoiler
    The guy that built Hades isn't exactly "sane"
     
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  19. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    I don't really care about the story. The mechanics look solid.
     
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  20. Trashos Magister

    Trashos
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    House was my favorite character in the main game, and I don't think I have ever met (or will ever meet) anyone who didn't like the Survivalist story.

    Anthony, do you know who wrote Dean Domino for Dead Money? I am in awe with that character. I am in awe with Dead Money in general, but Domino was probably the highlight for me.
     
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  21. Kem0sabe Arcane

    Kem0sabe
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    Continue to say that the story was good, the reveal about the fate of humanity, their solution, how it ended in tragedy. It was all quite interesting and made me want to play to the end to see how it turned out, which is more than I can say of elex fo example.
     
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  22. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Yes. A fucking Pentecostal.

    http://horizonzerodawn.wikia.com/wiki/Travis_Tate

    But you did not get my point. The concept of HADES is simply retarded.

    Anyone would be happy to be able to reborn life after an apocalypse and there is no rational reason which can justify the implementation of some AI purposed to wipe out entire life in case life is not respecting a certain criteria. Take note that Hades purpose was to kill humans and not the wild fauna.

    What is the criteria which can say that the current human life forms must be eradicated? There is no such criteria. There cannot be such a criteria. As such the villain, the story and basically the entire narrative are shit.

    Questions?
     
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  23. Zarniwoop Destiny Cleanser Patron

    Zarniwoop
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    Again, did you play the same game I did? Hades was built to destroy the fauna and flora in case the environment was NOT SUITABLE for human life. So that everything could start over. Hades would kick in before human life because the terraforming process went wrong.

    If human life already existed, it would not activate.

    The first attempt worked and humans came back, thus hades was never activated. Until Russian election-hacking squads fucked with it.
     
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  24. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Ok. My mistake. Please answer the following questions:

    1) HADES has no issues killing humans. Shouldn't the AI acknowledge that he has no purpose once human life is encountered? It seems like the most basic failsafe logic you put in any AI of that kind.
    2) Considering that the world ended exactly because of AIs going rogue who would design and implement an AI who would destroy the world?
    3) Why should someone design a subsystem which could take over the main system? Who is so retard? Maybe only Elisabet Sobek ... the most intelligent and formidable woman in the world.
    4) Why starting from a blank state is better than correcting something? How do you define that a terraforming effort was unsuccessful? Terraforming is not really a cheap operation.
    5) Let's say you need 500 years to recreate Earth atmosphere, why would someone destroy Earth atmosphere and then wait another 500 years instead of trying to control or clean up what exists? Each hundred years increases the risk of failure for the entire House of Cards. Real AIs should adapt to existing conditions and don't try to destroy reality in order to match their programming. If an AI can only proceed from a specific set of initial conditions then that AI is a failure and definitely not suited for terraforming or any other complex tasks. Creating a second AI to correct the first AI is simply stupid. By doing it you just multiply the complexity of the entire system by two and you are basically asking for something to blow up in your face. I mean that's what I'm thinking ... but I'm not Elisabet Sobek.
    6) How come Hades is able to fly? If that prick was able to fly then a full AI like Gaia should be in orbit.
    7) How come Hades is expert in manipulating humans? He was not designed to ever deal with them.
    8) How come Hades was able to write viruses in order to corrupt Gaia? His primary function was not that. I know, real AIs can shit rainbows without any explanations when the plot requires rainbows.

    Now, I guess your answer will be that the mysterious signal did change HADES code ... which is possible. However that raises the following question:
    9) If someone is capable of modifying an AI in such a manner then that *someone* is capable of creating it own AI and it doesn't need HADES for anything.

    What I'm trying to say is that there is no rational reason for HADES existence. Nobody would be so stupid to create this type of AI. And whoever is capable of modding HADES should be capable of creating his own evil AI. It makes no sense.

    Hades is pivotal to the main story and everything crumbles once you realize that his existence doesn't make sense. Hades is just a stupid plot device.

    I admit that the rest of the story is pretty consistent and quite good ... but I cannot take it seriously when the main villain is so fucking retarded. Does this makes sense to you?

    And for the last time: Yes, I did play the game. I enjoyed the mechanics. I enjoyed quite a lot of things. But I lost interest once I found out about Hades. Honestly, at the end of the game I was doing the moves but I did not care anymore.
     
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  25. Zarniwoop Destiny Cleanser Patron

    Zarniwoop
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    Yes, it should. Those were likely removed by the h4xx0r beam.

    Someone who realised it's a pretty damn efficient way of stripping a planet of hostile lifeforms, just build more self-replicating bots. Plus the typical sc-fi trope of "but THIS time we will be able to control it, promise"

    Someone who is smart enough to realise that if it couldn't take over the main system, the main system (GAIA), being a self-aware AI, would probably want to protect its creation of abominations, much like the Xenomorph queen in Aliens and thus never permit HADES to take over voluntarily.

    4) Why starting from a blank state is better than correcting something? How do you define that a terraforming effort was unsuccessful? Terraforming is not really a cheap operation.

    Because ecosystems are complex and chaotic, who knows if it's even possible to correct it? What we DO know is, the one we had on Earth, works.

    The atmosphere isn't destroyed, only the biosphere meaning the life. There would be changes to the atmosphere as a result of course, but there would be no humans to nuke everything to shit and cause more damage, so subsequent retries would probably be much quicker than the first one.

    Also, Every evul AI in every dystopian sci-fi ever, tries to destroy the world. It's a given at this point.

    This is your first good point. The AI should be able to do whatever its host robot body can, of course, but as for flying like a disembodied space ghost, that scene really didn't sit well with me either. I've got nothing.

    It was programmed to learn and adapt. Google bots are already manipulating people by studying their behavior as we speak. In 50 years from now, how much more advanced will that shit be? Nevermind however many centuries that thing has been dormant.

    Da fuck? That WAS its primary function. Read your own question 3 again. Slowly. It was designed to override GAIA and activate Faro killbots.

    Says who? That makes no sense. When IRL hackers hack something, do they create their own version? No.

    Wrong. It's much easier to hack a computer than to build a new one. Especially in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where there are no high-tech industries.

    Wrong. Its existence does make sense in the context of the game world, and also the plot could still work (with minor changes) if it wasn't there.

    Yes.

    Look, if you want to find things wrong with the story, they are definitely there. Long before Hades, there aere much more fundamental issues, some of which I have mentioned in this same thread. Hades is the least of its problems.

    Firstly, pure math. We don't know how long these things take to self replicate, but we do know that it would pretty much halve with every generation. Thus, pretty damn soon the entire planet would be one crawling mess of robots. I punched some rough numbers into Excel, and basically my earlier post on the subject was wrong. If the robots take a week to replicate, within 20 generations, or around 5 months, you'd have 5 million robots. A month later, you would have more than 80 million and by 7 months, you'd have more than a billion. This does make the year and a half plus timeline of PZD seem a little ridiculous. In a year's time there would be 22 quadrillion robots (if the resources existed to build them, which it wouldn't).

    Sure, the robots wouldn't be replicating full time, they would also be liquidizing dolphins and fighting, but it's also really unlikely that their replication would take a full week so let's call it even.

    Second, why would the smartest man in the universe and the biggest evul white male embodiment of corporate greed, SPECIFICALLY make his engineers not make a backdoor into his killbots' OS? His main clients are big corporations and armies. Exactly the kind of customer who wants a secret backdoor into every goddamn thing, plus being a greedy fucking white heterosexual male, he would want to take control for his own needs. Did he never see any movie ever made about rogue AI? Makes no sense in the context of the story.

    Third: Why would this same evul white male suddenly have a moment of conscience, realise he made a terrible mistake by killing billions of innocent people, and attempt to make up for it by killing even more innocent people (the alphas) and doom the rest of humanity to extinction as far as he's concerned?

    Then: in the context of HOW THE REAL WORLD WORKS:

    There would not be stronk, independent fierce wombyn running around being warriors. There just wouldn't. There is no social support system for it and they would be insta-slaughtered. Feminism is a luxury afforded by modern Western living standards and technology. It goes away immediately if those things go away, and all of humanity's knowledge was lost, thus there would be no silly ideas like this floating around, people would just do what they were naturally good at. And they would not be buddy-buddy with someone who looks completely different from 99.99% of the tribe by having jet black skin, while at the same time shunning a baby because it has an unknown mother. There is no enlightened Twitter mob to explain how differences between people are social constructs, people will behave according to their instincts in a survival situation.

    You would not be able to kill 20 meter tall death machines, with wooden fucking arrows. And they would not be equipped with the worst heatsinks in the universe, that can't even cool down the death machine in the middle of a blizzard.

    Etc.

    Many issues with this game/setting/story, but Hades is not a big one.
     
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