HITMAN, the new episodic Hitman - GOTY Edition

[Night Goat]

Holy fuck, that is the largest level in Absolution? This doesn't tell me that the new Hitman will be good, only that the last one was really fucking bad.

 

[Immortal]

Holy fuck, that is the largest level in Absolution? This doesn't tell me that the new Hitman will be good, only that the last one was really fucking bad.

I think they are trying to say an "average" level in the new hitman will be 6x larger then the biggest level in absolution. AKA more open world and less check point styled.
I'm still optimistic..

 

[paintinggrey]

 

[Ivan]

I just hope they don't try to make every level a giant mansion. In other words, I hope they don't refrain from doing smaller maps like: A New Life, St. Petersburg Stakeout, or Meat King's Party.

 

[Immortal]

Six Campaign Missions? Feels a little light... does that mean six levels or just 6 missions with multiple levels?

 

[upwardlymobile]

it says it ships in march with 3 maps containing 6 "campaign missions", then three more maps are to be released over the next few months

i think the idea is that they're making large, versatile maps so modders can take them and make a wide variety of missions using them

 

[Adon]

Six Campaign Missions? Feels a little light... does that mean six levels or just 6 missions with multiple levels?

It's 6 missions within 3 levels. Seems fairly logical to assume that means 2 missions per map.

I sort of agree on that it feels light. I mean, both Contracts and Blood Money only had 12 missions so this is half of that at almost half the price. And if upcoming maps are 2 story missions per map just like the initial content seems to be then it's probably going to be 12 campaign missions just like Contracts and Blood Money. With the variety of approaches + contracts mode, I feel like it's at least somewhat fair.

My only complaint would be that 6 maps overall feels like it's cutting it short. Although I'm sure it's probably because of the size they're going for with each map and all the attention to detail they have to do that comes with it.

 

[Zombra]

I feel weird about the multiple missions per map thing. I guess it's OK if the maps are huge, so it's like, kill the clown and the priest in South Paris and then kill the drug dealer and the politician in North Paris. I could see how that can qualify as two missions. Still, it seems like I'm kind of going to be learning the maps and picking my kill spots, won't reusing them make it really samey?

 

[Immortal]

My optimism slowly falls away to reality.. Why do I even bother getting excited..

 

[Adon]

I feel weird about the multiple missions per map thing. I guess it's OK if the maps are huge, so it's like, kill the clown and the priest in South Paris and then kill the drug dealer and the politician in North Paris. I could see how that can qualify as two missions. Still, it seems like I'm kind of going to be learning the maps and picking my kill spots, won't reusing them make it really samey?

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm worried about. If they have the 2nd target have a really different path with guards posted at different spots it might be okay and they can pull it off with the map size they're going for. Especially if they make each map wildly different from one another to stop the game from getting dull too quick.

 

[Immortal]

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...led-release-date-confirmed-for-march-11-2016/

• Three huge sandbox locations: Paris, Sapienza and Marrakesh
• Six campaign missions with 40 unique ways to take out your main targets
• Contracts mode for all locations with around 800 potential targets

It appears the three countries are the sandbox locations.. Potentially the campaign is unrelated to those locations and take place somewhere else?

But Then...

Post launch content will include:

• One new sandbox location per month in April, May and June
• Thailand in April, USA in May and Japan in June
• Each location will come with additional missions, signature kills and more Contracts targets
• New locations will open up new weapons, tools and disguises for all locations
• Contracts mode for all locations: Contracts mode is an asynchronous multi-player mode in HITMAN. Play to create your own contract hits, choose your target, weapons, time limit and game rules. Then share it with friends to try and complete your contract with your rules

Again.. it could mean the campaign missions are off the sandbox maps but unrelated.. it's not clear. They better not jew us.

 

[Zombra]

Yeah. Could be interesting if it's like, go kill the priest at the big festival in South Paris, now go to the slums of Marrakesh to kill the dogcatcher, now go back to North Paris in the dead of night with no one on the streets to kill the politican. Actually many games have shown that revisiting maps under different circumstances can be pretty fun. OK, I feel better.

 

[Night Goat]

Again.. it could mean the campaign missions are off the sandbox maps but unrelated.. it's not clear. They better not jew us.

Of course they'll fucking jew you, it's an AAA game released this decade. What the fuck do you expect?

 

[Metro]

Time to stop defending this piecemeal game, Zombra

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

Time to stop defending this piecemeal game, Zombra

 

[Metro]

Joined:
Sep 22, 2015

 

[Ivan]

hitmanforums are demanding calirification lol

 

[Metro]

AAA games go episodic. Film at 11.

 

[Dzupakazul]

I still do not get what it means. On that document posted on the previous page, they claim that the "art gallery" has 300 NPCs that can be each made into individual contracts, and "For Contracts mode, you’ve got a combined pool of around 800 targets to craft your devious Contracts from, which means we’re expecting fantastic things."

If the art gallery alone sucks up over 1/3 of the content they are promising on release, does that mean that the two "campaign missions" both take place in the art gallery? Not some other location in Paris (look at how drastically different Death on the Mississippi/'Til Death do us Part are), just the art gallery? Otherwise, if the game is trying to carry itself on a boatload of interactable NPCs and each level is meant to be huge, that's the only way this could work.

And with 500 Contractable NPCs remaining, that means that the remaining two areas in Marrakesh and Sapienza will probably be similar, huge, sandbox areas.

So, that means, on release, there will be three (gargantuan, I suppose) missions with two official targets each and then a ton of stuff for LARPers?

...Where exactly will there be a difference between a contract on a Model #4 and a Model #9 coming out on the catwalk? Or Cook #3 and Cook #5, one dwelling by the oven, the other chopping onions next to him?

This is the most obscured marketing ever - I still can't confess to understand everything about it, and now it seems like a copout to hide that, in effect, they might only have 3 maps for the initial release, with both missions taking place on the same map.

 

[Zombra]

If the art gallery alone sucks up over 1/3 of the content they are promising on release, does that mean that the two "campaign missions" both take place in the art gallery? Not some other location in Paris (look at how drastically different Death on the Mississippi/'Til Death do us Part are), just the art gallery?

Seems like this is a yes.

And with 500 Contractable NPCs remaining, that means that the remaining two areas in Marrakesh and Sapienza will probably be similar, huge, sandbox areas.

Right. Three huge sandbox locations, that's what they're advertising.

So, that means, on release, there will be three (gargantuan, I suppose) missions with two official targets each and then a ton of stuff for LARPers?

Maybe. We have no idea whether there will be other mission structures besides "wander around in a huge crowd and kill this one dood." To me, six missions on three maps implies that there will be distinct features to each mission.

...Where exactly will there be a difference between a contract on a Model #4 and a Model #9 coming out on the catwalk? Or Cook #3 and Cook #5, one dwelling by the oven, the other chopping onions next to him?

Yeah, we don't know. This may prove to be lackluster, but I'm hoping that different missions will be ... different from one another. Taking out a team of assassin nuns at a mansion that's on fire during an earthquake would be different from taking out a fashion designer in his mansion during a show. Other games have shown that revisiting a map with a new situation can make a huge difference in gameplay.

It seems like a copout to hide that, in effect, they might only have 3 maps for the initial release, with both missions taking place on the same map.

They're 'hiding' it? It says right on the blurb in all caps. 3 LOCATIONS. It's OK to be dissatisfied with so few maps, but don't pretend they're trying to deceive their customers.

This is the most obscured marketing ever.

I certainly agree that there could be a lot more clarity, but I can cut them some slack because it really seems like they're taking a new distribution approach here. Not a traditional "one and done" release, not an episodic release as we've become accustomed to in recent years, not a fluid MMO-style subscription release with indefinite ongoing updates. Bottom line, all it really means is more than ever we should put all thoughts of preordering out of our heads, and wait to see how the product turns out.

 

[Cadmus]

Uh haha, they can go fuck themselves in the ass with this marketing strategy.

The focus on the systemic gameplay is not all there is to Hitman, same as it's not the focus on the mythos - Absolution failed here (among other things).
This will be shit, I can smell it in the air. The franchise has crumbled under its own weight. It's definitely over. They don't understand what they had with the original tetralogy.

I can already see the steam achievements pop-up the first time you kill somebody with a syringe, after being prompted to do it by a huge text with a whooosh sound.

Seems like this is a yes.


Right. Three huge sandbox locations, that's what they're advertising.


Maybe. We have no idea whether there will be other mission structures besides "wander around in a huge crowd and kill this one dood." To me, six missions on three maps implies that there will be distinct features to each mission.


Yeah, we don't know. This may prove to be lackluster, but I'm hoping that different missions will be ... different from one another. Taking out a team of assassin nuns at a mansion that's on fire during an earthquake would be different from taking out a fashion designer in his mansion during a show. Other games have shown that revisiting a map with a new situation can make a huge difference in gameplay.


They're 'hiding' it? It says right on the blurb in all caps. 3 LOCATIONS. It's OK to be dissatisfied with so few maps, but don't pretend they're trying to deceive their customers.

But it's not 3 locations, it's 3 maps. The other games had 3-4 locations as well but more maps that got progressively bigger and were connected by either an over-arching story or some general theme.
This is gonna be 3 fucking maps with tons of dangling chandeliers with big button prompts "PRESS F TO STEALTHKILL"
Remember, you can always create YOUR OWN story by marking a random NPC as the target in the all-new-and-amazing contracts mode! Who needs a setup, atmosphere, theme, mystery, strategy or anything? Mark your stupid NPC on a big map and make your own fun! How cool!

Oh man, I hope the mission to retrieve your hitmanning suit(TM) from Absolution makes a comeback!
I wonder how badass will Mr. FOOORTY SEEEEVEN (read in a wrestling match announcer voice) be this time!!

 

[Zombra]

But it's not 3 locations, it's 3 maps. The other games had 3-4 locations as well but more maps that got progressively bigger and were connected by either an over-arching story or some general theme. This is gonna be 3 fucking maps

Well, they're saying three "locations". Maybe three locations means the same this time as it did in the other games. Even if not, if the maps are 6x the size of maps from previous games, what's wrong with having one huge seamless map instead of six little maps with load screens in between?

 

[Cadmus]

Well, they're saying three "locations". Maybe three locations means the same this time as it did in the other games. Even if not, if the maps are 6x the size of maps from previous games, what's wrong with having one huge seamless map instead of six little maps with load screens in between?

I'm sure that Blood Money would have been a better game if the maps were the size of Skyrim.
I'm sure that the first chinatown assassination in Hitman 1 would have been better if instead of packing up your suitcase and leaving, you'd go plant a bomb, infiltrate the china cafe meeting and went on to kill the triad boss all in one go.

Hitman isn't just a sandbox do-whatever playground. At its core it is a simulation of the experience of being a hitman. There's lot more to the experience than people seem to understand, at least for me.

If I'm totally honest, sure they could do a bigger level quite well - in theory. I would bet my firstborn child that they will fuck it up and it will be a detriment to the experience though. Just think of the the simplest way to do it wrong (I'm pretty sure this will be in the game, too) - put a laundry list of bullshit to-do stuff in the mission, like all the open-world shit games do nowadays. Hey 47, can you help me scare off my wife-beating neighbor? ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED - PROTECTOR OF THE WEAK Hey Mr. Hitman, break up the fight between the gang-members and one of them might reveal an important information about the target! ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED - BLACK COMPANION

There's so many problems with that, it's annoying trying to explain that to what should be fellow fans of the series.

The first mission in Hitman 1 is one of my best memories of the series - it's perfect. I don't see any net benefit of having 3 big "locations" in this game, this isn't the shit I'm interested in.

 

[Zombra]

Yeah, I played Blood Money too. I get why a tight experience is good, and I'm not advocating for this achievement-based shoot 5 red windows bullshit you seem to be afraid of (perhaps rightly). But I don't get this outright hatred for big maps, and we seem to agree that large areas can be done well and provide good gameplay that's appropriate to the "soul" of the series.

Mostly what you seem to be responding to is the "smell" of the series arc, which is hard to agree or disagree with. They're clearly been listening to the negative feedback to Absolution. There's no evidence either way of the achievement stupidity you're talking about, and this stuff about little "side quests" is completely made up; even Absolution didn't have that. The marketing guy said that the new game is about a location and a target and the rest is up to you. To me that sounds pretty faithful.

 

[Cadmus]

Yeah, I played Blood Money too. I get why a tight experience is good, and I'm not advocating for this achievement-based shoot 5 red windows bullshit you seem to be afraid of (perhaps rightly). But I don't get this outright hatred for big maps, and we seem to agree that large areas can be done well and provide good gameplay that's appropriate to the "soul" of the series.

Mostly what you seem to be responding to is the "smell" of the series arc, which is hard to agree or disagree with. They're clearly been listening to the negative feedback to Absolution. There's no evidence either way of the achievement stupidity you're talking about, and this stuff about little "side quests" is completely made up; even Absolution didn't have that. The marketing guy said that the new game is about a location and a target and the rest is up to you. To me that sounds pretty faithful.

But I don't agree that the large areas can be done well. They can't be done well and they are totally missing the point anyway. They could be done well maybe 15 years ago when the devs weren't afraid that people would get bored if there wasn't a box to check off on the right side of the screen every 5 minutes.

I haven't heard them respond to any of the complaints I had - no subtlety whatsoever, bullshit button prompts, vapid, out of character writing, shit music, shit reward system, shit story, assrape of the hitman mythos by making him act like a retard, shit hand-holding, idiotic flashy Hollywood moments (see no subtlety)
I'm sure they'll fuck up the stealth play again because they somehow think that something good can come out of the insanely bad stealth system of the previous game. They'll fuck up the gun-play again. They'll fuck up everything there is to fuck up. Maybe the game maps will be bigger with some more targets or ways to kill them but I've never ever seen any series roll back the shit changes to the style and core of the game.