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History Book recommendations

Discussion in 'Codex Public Library' started by Smashing Axe, Jul 1, 2012.

  1. Smashing Axe Arbiter Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    I've recently become interested in reading books dedicated to portraying an accurate representation of the history and life of different eras, but do not know where to start. Looking on Amazon, there's a lot of crap that seems to have a poor grasp on the subject matter, instead reading like junk feel-good novels for bored old women. I don't care so much about the time period, so long as the book is interesting, informative and relatively unbiased, without agenda. (No books along the lines of "Hitler:The Most Evil Man Ever"). Since the Codex is a fairly learned lot (Cue laughter), I thought I might check here for recommendations.

    Books that delve into the strategy and tactics of different wars are also welcome.
  2. alkeides Cipher Patron

    alkeides
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    Casanova's History of My Life gives some insight into many aspects of 18th century life, though you need to be aware of some of his fabrications.

    Cellini's Autobiography is another one for 16th century Italy.
  3. Kz3r0 Arcane

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    In short, you want pro western undomesticated snowman Democratic Capitalism propaganda.
  4. Smashing Axe Arbiter Patron

    Smashing Axe
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    How exactly does any of what I've said lead you to believe that's what I want? Or are you looking for a strawman to fight for whatever cause it is you're championing?

    What I mean is that I'm open to reading about just about any time period/culture. I'm just looking for recommendations.
  5. XenomorphII Learned

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    Well, what are some areas you are interested in? What type of history do you want to read up on (military, cultural, etc)? What eras interest you?

    If you are interested in warfare and the rise of Prussia and formation of Germany, Geoffrey Wawro's books on the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian wars are good (but they are pricey last I checked).

    If you want to read up on some of Napoleon, 1812--Napoleon's invasion of Russia (Paul Britten Austin), is a good book on Napoleon's great campaign into Russia.

    I know a few that deal with WW1 and the American Civil War as well, but I don't have them on hand at the moment.

    PS: If anybody knows any good books on the Russian Revolution and the Russian Civil War, please post them.

    EDIT: Good ACW book (though it is pretty much a textbook, but it is good): Ordeal by Fire: The Civil War and Reconstruction, James McPherson.
  6. ChristofferC Scholar

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    Check out The Outline of History for a different perspective. All history books are biased.
  7. Kz3r0 Arcane

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    Because is how it actually translates in reality usually, I forgot moderate too.
    Besides, the request is quite naive at best, you have to judge for yourself and read lot of shit if you are really interested in a subject, asking for unbiased accounts just indicates laziness, without mentioning that many historical sources, in many cases the only ones we have, are biased as hell.
    In this case what have you already read?

    In case you are interested here an online library where to search for lots of books:
    http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/moa/
  8. Gregz Liturgist

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  9. The man who wasn't there Educated

    The man who wasn't there
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    You can't go wrong with Figes' "A People's Tragedy".
    XenomorphII Brofists this.
  10. Quetzacoatl Scholar

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    There is Broken Spears which details the Spanish conquest of Mexico from an Aztec perspective. There's also that Art of War book by the Chinese guy.
  11. Oriental European Educated

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    Do not recommend World War 2 by Churchill, really fucking boring. What a disappointment.
    I've read and can recommend "Cursed Days" by Ivan Bunin.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursed_Days
    There is also a couple of good stories from Boris Pilnyak, but you probably will not find them in English.
    "Rome from the late Republic to the late Empire" is good, and you can find it on torrents. Would buy, actually.
    The man who wasn't there Brofists this.
  12. Captain Shrek Dumbfuck! Patron

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    I don't know about historical accuracy (that does not even make real sense beyond archaeological and select textual evidence) but good books written with serious thought in it, that I KNOW about are as follows:

    Myth Establishing:

    1) Early Ancient times:

    The Vedic texts. They are mystical but quite insightful. Read some of the early vedic tales like the War of the Ten princes


    2) Mid-Ancient:


    Read the Greek texts by Herodotus and Homer. Don't consider them history but rather myth establishing tales.
    The Aeneid.
    Post-Vedic epics like Ramayana and Mahabharata (Jai)
    Epic of Gilgamesh
    Poetic Edda (I don't really know if I am putting them in the right time frame though). Prose Edda is probably late though.

    3) Late Ancient:

    Old Testament (No really! Read it!!)
    Beowulf (probably the less important one)

    4) Late Medieval (!)

    Divine Comedy
    Shakespeare

    I will add more as I remember.

    Now serious tactical / Philosophical/ Analytical / texts

    1) Mid ancient:

    Socrates/ Plato/ Aristotle
    Kautilya's Arthashastra (The first full order governance textbook; some might claim that Plato's republic or Aristotle's Politics are earlier. Pay no heed. Arthashastra is the real deal).
    Art of War

    2) Late Ancient
    ????

    3) Medieval ???? (I am not good with the classification, just assuming here)

    Miyamoto Musashi (Five Rings Dokkodo)
    The Prince

    4) Late medieval:

    4) Early colonial
    Gulliver's travels
    Voltaire (All of it; I mean ALL of it)
    Napoleonic code (I did not offer hammurabic code earlier because its incomplete, but your choice).
    Fall and Decline of Roman Empire (First real historical text as far as I understand).
    Inquiry into the Wealth of nations.

    I agree that these are fairly banal but NOT shit boring reads. Give them a try before indulging into other more specific texts.

    For your pleasure: delicious Copy pasta!



    Ærelian and Smashing Axe Brofist this.
  13. herostratus Arbiter

    herostratus
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    I interpreted this as meaning that you were interested in the day to day living of ordinary people, in which case I cannot help you. But if you asked for more general history books, I can recommend the following two:

    Sowing the dragons teeth focuses on the military history of the byzantine empire during its heroic era from around 930-1000 if I remember correctly. It consists of first a translation of a military manual (which is kinda boring to read tbh), then a more in depth explanation. The writing won't win any awards but it is straight forward and gets the point across. Overall a solid book which is easy and cool to read.

    The other is one I was prescribed in history at school. Nichlas and Alexandra, a biography of the last Russian Tsar. It has the accuracy and documentation of a history book and reads like a novel. Since it is about a Tsar then obviously it touches quite a bit upon the general state of Russia during his reign.
  14. Kalin Arbiter

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    I recently acquired the fifth and sixth volumes of The Cambridge history of Japan and so far I have been very impressed by the honest and detailed manner in which not only the development and policies of Japan are covered, but also those of the United Kingdom and the United States. Typically, historical works on the subject tend to be extremely biased in favour of the latter two, but this series actually portray all of the various sides in an unusually neutral manner. Highly recommended.
  15. DramaticPopcorn Liturgist

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    Napoleon by Tarle.
    Great writing style and a very clean narrative without too much in terms of opinions and personal thoughts. Just like any damn history book should be.

    EDIT: It's in Russian, tho.
  16. MisterStone Arbiter

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    Cambridge History of ___ books are pretty damn near perfect as far as straight up history books go. THe ones I have read in the past have not been just a chronological history, rather they are a series of essays/chapters by experts in various fields, arranged in a single volume. Only problem is, each volume (of the series I have experience with) is like $200. SO you might need to borrow from a library or... use creative sourcing techniques. ;)
  17. Darklife Learned

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    If you're looking for something about WW2 I would heartily reccommend anything by Antony Beevor. He has a book about the Spanish Civil War, Stalingrad, the fall of Berlin in 1945 and about D-Day, all of which cover much more than their titles would suggest. There's also one about the invasion of Crete, but I have yet to read it.

    There's also Barbarossa by Alan Clarke, although it's a bit outdated.

    Lastly you could also go for Norman Davies, however he may have a much more pronounced agenda than the earlier authors. He wrote Europe at War about the Eastern Front and Uprising about, well the Warsaw Uprising.
  18. I suggest contacting Trash and Scottish Martial Arts, they’re our experts on this topic. Avoid asking Lyric Suite.

    Tom Holland has written some excellent, highly readable histories. He was a originally a novelist, not a historian, but now he’s batting for the other team. His background shows in his naturally flowing prose.

    Rubicon, about the fall of the Roman Republic, is great, his first book and the tome which got me into reading history in the first place.

    Persian Fire is about the interactions, usually violent, between the Persian Empire and the Hellenes. I find Greece too high minded to be as interesting as Rome, with it’s internecine power struggles between aristocrats, gangs, and generals. The Greeks’ most interesting facet is arguably their mythology.

    Millenium has a less obvious focus, it’s basically everything in the West from the fall of Rome to the first Crusade, with a focus on the 900’s and 1000’s. Christians, Muslims, Vikings and their cousins the Normans feature prominently.

    In the Shadow of the Sword is new and I haven’t read it. It seems to be about Muslims. I think Trash has read it, ask him.



    If I was starting anew, here's how I would study:

    Greece
    Easily digestible introduction:
    Probably Tom Holland’s Persian Fire.

    Then the real stuff:
    The Illiad and The Odyssey – Homer. Awesome and indispensable.

    The Metamorphoses – Ovid. More mythology. Written by a Roman, but basically Greek.

    Histories –Herodotus. Basically the story of the known world up until the Persian invasion. Has a bit of random wank around the early middle, but don’t miss the second half, when the Persians show up.

    March to the Sea – Xenophon. This sounds interesting. I haven't read it. Spartan mercenaries in Persia find themselves surrounded by enemies after a Persian regime change, and have to find their way to the coast. The plot was borrowed for the 70’s fim The Warriors, set in New York.

    Watch:
    Don’t laugh, but 300 really could be a much worse depiction of the last few books of Herodotus. It even borrows the dialogue. Apart from that I’m not really sure.

    Don’t Watch:
    Hercules, Xena, anything with flying horses.


    Rome
    Easily digestible introduction:
    Tom Holland’s Rubicon. Can’t recommend this enough.

    I, Claudius -Robert Graves. This is a novel which covers about the next 50 years after Rubicon.

    Claudius the God is the sequel. I haven’t read it.

    Then the real stuff:
    The Lives –Plutarch. This is good stuff, and comes in short readable chunks. It’s a series of biographies of notable figures. Make sure you read the Roman ones, there’s Greek versions as well.

    There’s a host of other Roman historians too –Tacitus, Livy, Arian, Suetonius, etc.

    The Aenied –Virgil. The Roman version of Homer. Aenius flees Troy and ends up founding a civilization in Italy. I haven’t read it.

    Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire – Edward Gibbon. This mammoth saga covers everything from about The Five Good Emperors to the fall of Constantinople in the 1500’s. Even Mohammed, Richard the Lion Heart and Genghis Khan show up. Atilla the Hun, Alaric the Visigoth, and Julian the Apostate, the Emperor who tried to restore Paganism, are all interesting and colourful characters. It’s all in often needless detail, you can probably learn whether your favourite Emperor was a scruncher or a folder. Don’t bother trying to read from cover to cover, just the parts that interest you. You can pick up edited versions.

    Watch
    Carolinus, Julius Caesar, and Antony and Cleopatra – Shakespeare. These are all cool, and very accurate to Plutarch. I have versions made for British TV. Titus Andronicus is not based on any real events I know of, but is still interesting.

    Rome –HBO. This is Awesome.

    I, Claudius –Some people swear by this, but I found it too obviously a 70’s British TV show, and struggled with it. I watched about half.

    Spartacus, the old 60’s film, is good.

    Don’t Watch
    Spartacus, the new TV show
    Gladiator is a good movie, but like Oblivion, it lacks any particular flavour - it just feels like guys with swords in the generic ye olden dayes. It needs to be more Roman - like the HBO show.
    Caligula. Just don’t.


    Vikings
    Easily digestible introduction:
    I don’t know of any book that covers this in the right kind of narrative detail. I’ve picked up a few books, but they tend to be arranged by topic, not chronologically, and not with the kind of powerful writing I’d hope for. Let me know, kind reader, if you’ve come across anything. Tom Holland’ s Millenium has Vikings but they’re not dealt with in enough length or detail.

    For the Mythology:
    The Norse Myths –Kevin Crossley Holland. This is cool, and so straight-forward a 10 year old could probably read it.

    Then the real stuff:
    The Poetic Edda - some early mythology, including the Havamal, the sayings of Odin, which is cool.

    The Prose Edda –Snorri Sturlusson. This is pretty indispensable. A great collection of tales about Odin, Thor, Loki and the gang.

    The Volsunga Saga –you know Sigurd, the dragon, the Valkyries, the rings, like in the opera. I think this might be part of the Prose Edda, actually.

    Heimskringla –Snorri Sturlusson. The History of Norway, before and after the (very violent) conversion. It’s a bit random at the start, when it deals with a list of distant ancestors, but really hits its stride when it deals with the line of Jarls of Hlathr. The pagan Jarls interact with characters like Haakon the good, Harold Bluetooth and the murderous Christian Olaf Trygvasson, who is converting Iceland and Norway with the sword. Has many great characters, moments and battles. I wish someone would make a TV miniseries or something with this.

    Snorri Sturlusson also wrote Egil’s Saga. I haven’t read it,

    The Lord of the Rings – more Norse than you probably realise.

    Watch
    There’s not really a good Viking movie, to my knowledge. The 13th Warrioris cool, but has problems. I liked Valhalla Rising, but wouldn’t recommend it to anyone who can’t tolerate confusing, arty bullshit.

    Don’t Watch
    Anything where the gods meet Captain America.
    oscar and Ærelian Brofist this.
  19. Captain Shrek Dumbfuck! Patron

    Captain Shrek
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    Don't watch any of that. Don't read the secondary texts AT THE START except for decline and Fall and only that because it is methodologically indispensable. otherwise Great list Stalin! cheerio.
  20. Erebus Liturgist

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    "History of the Peloponnesian War" by Thucydides is a great read : very clearly written, very analytical and the speeches are wonderful.
  21. Kz3r0 Arcane

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  22. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

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    Tim Collins: Rules of Engagement - for view into the life of British soldiers in 1980's and 1990's through the eyes of one Lt.Col Collins.

    Leon Trotsky: Revolution Betrayed - for fascinating view into the Soviet Union, Socialism and Stalinism as seen by Trotsky in 1936 before Stalin's Purges started.

    Moshe Lewin: The Making of the Soviet System - for a ride into the lives of ordinary people in early Soviet Union.

    Richard Grunberger: A Social History of the Third Reich - to learn how ordinary Germans lived during Hitler's reign and how the National-Socialistic system worked in their daily lives.
  23. Kz3r0 Arcane

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  24. Sranchammer Magister

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    i may look at broken spears
  25. dextermorgan Scholar

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    It's (historically inaccurate) shit.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/may/04/in-shadow-of-sword-tom-holland

    Speaking of which, I have no book suggestions off the top of my head BUT I do suggest to always read up on the author and avoid (especially amateur) historians with an ax to grind like the plague.

    Then again, I just remembered a pretty good book for its interesting and detailed portrayal of the everyday Roman society - Pompeii by Robert Harris (history novel). Here's a review: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/booksandauthors/gr/Pompeii.htm

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