Heroes of the Storm

[J1M]

All of the heroes are well guarded behind paywalls and even the game modes are locked. I don't understand what is the fascination with locking different game modes. They even advertise in the trailer how they'll force you to go into a tutorial against AI opponents the first time you play - as though no one has played a MOBA at this point.

There are two (not so evil) reasons why they did this with hearthstone.

1) Unlocking game modes through advancement serves as a tutorial phase so everyone enters the standard play modes with a basic idea of how the game functions. You may not know how to win yet, but you will at least know why you lost.
2) By forcing this somewhat time consuming tutorial onto people they reduce the number of fake accounts that get created for exploiting ladder and currency systems.

As much as I would like the option to pay a flat fee and have everything unlocked forever, Blizzard has been quite generous with Hearthstone F2P mechanics. They recognize that other players are part of the content, and the marginal advantage for spending money Hearthstone is extremely small. They even have a game mode where that advantage will always be zero. They don't need to exploit you, because there are enough people that throw money at their games for no reason.

I also think the rotating set of free characters will have positive effects on this game not relating to payment. It will keep the metagame (at least at the tiers below tournament level) fresh.

 

[Markman]

I dont see this game as competitive.More of a buddy 15 minute brawler. Unless some people enjoy to have all their games to be indentical. Maps are too small and too objective based. Not that is a bad thing but it limits the ways that the map can be played.

 

[subotaiy]

So many ways this genre can be improved by returning to rts mechanics like building structures/managing resouirces and instead they're making them simpler and simpler.

 

[SerratedBiz]

In the same way that LoL only exists to soothe me when I get too wound up with Dota, this thing will only serve to make me breathe a sigh when LoL gets too srs.

Like that'll ever happen.

 

[Castanova]

The actual game play is non-existent.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

this game looks even more dumbed down that LoL. the game is spearheaded by the designer of SC2 and I very much doubt he has any idea of what makes a dota game addicting.

Okay, there is a semblance of gameplay. What I'm trying to say is that in-game, there is a very limited set of skills needed to win. Again, it's been a long time since I've played a MOBA, but my experience has been (1) know the item progression for the levels, (2) grind, (3) coordinate attacks. It is very simplistic. Has there been any innovations that improve or expand the skills needed in modern MOBA games? Moreover, has the genre become more dynamic in terms of the number of options that change depending on an evolving game situation?

There's quite a lot of skill involved in microing a character in with an RTS interface. Aiming and dodging are not easy, and some MOBAs have other timing things you have to do.

I've played many RTS since Warcraft II, and I would say that I am competent at microing units, especially since RTS require you to do these things WHILE macroing. Can you give some examples of the other timings in modern MOBA games?

MOBAs have a lot of stuff going on that RTSes don't. Less of a focus on APM and mechanics and more of a focus on decision-making. It's impossible to explain it to you in a reasonable amount of time, though, if you have no frame of reference.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

I have never played a MOBA.

you're not missing anything.

 

[Metro]

They're not bad. It's just nothing I would play obsessively like the majority of players.

 

[Metro]

Looks like I actually got into this Alpha (don't even remember opting in). Unfortunately they add it directly to your bnet account versus a key so I can't sell it to some halfwit for $500.

 

[Ninjerk]

So some Codexians actually play MOBAs? What's the appeal? I can't get into these games because they seem to be inherently flawed in terms of game design. Even the most team focused games apart from MOBAs value individual skill. Team Fortress may have distinct classes, but your skill as an FPS player still matters to contribute to your team towards achieving victory. The little time I spend playing the first DOTA bored me, since everything that you have to do in "building" the character is already predetermined, and then you spend most of the game grinding or coordinating attacks. A large part of winning has to do with choosing the right character that works with other team members and doing the right item progression. The actual game play is non-existent. Am I missing something here? Has there been changes that provide a more dynamic gameplay in DOTA 2 or LOL?

The actual game play is non-existent.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

this game looks even more dumbed down that LoL. the game is spearheaded by the designer of SC2 and I very much doubt he has any idea of what makes a dota game addicting.

Okay, there is a semblance of gameplay. What I'm trying to say is that in-game, there is a very limited set of skills needed to win. Again, it's been a long time since I've played a MOBA, but my experience has been (1) know the item progression for the levels, (2) grind, (3) coordinate attacks. It is very simplistic. Has there been any innovations that improve or expand the skills needed in modern MOBA games? Moreover, has the genre become more dynamic in terms of the number of options that change depending on an evolving game situation?

There's quite a lot of skill involved in microing a character in with an RTS interface. Aiming and dodging are not easy, and some MOBAs have other timing things you have to do.

I've played many RTS since Warcraft II, and I would say that I am competent at microing units, especially since RTS require you to do these things WHILE macroing. Can you give some examples of the other timings in modern MOBA games?

By the way you describe it, I don't think you understand the gameplay.

 

[Markman]

Everyone that played it is underwhelmed, maybe those that never played a MOBA before will appreciate it more.
I guess its better to have expectations set on low from the start. I still wanna play it.


And those that never played a MOBA, dont start unless you have shitload of free time or are a former WoW addict or similar. It takes a shitload of time to learn it and it takes even more to get good at it.

 

[Metro]

Played it for a couple of hours. It's fun but slower paced and more 'casual' compared to DOTA. So far it seems there are three different maps each with their own gimmicks where you have to do some 'PvE' stuff to get a competitive edge be it activating a shrine, running into an instanced mine to grab skulls, or loot idols. There are no items. You get all of your abilities save your 'big powah' ability at the start and the power one usually comes fairly quickly. As you level you get a choice of two talents to augment your hero. The matches I played in took about 20ish minutes each.

Edit: Correction, when you unlock 'player level' 8 your heroes get additional abilities you can select as they level.

More edits: There are actually four maps and they're all fairly small.

 

[Metro]

After 5-6 hours I managed to get to level 10 unlocking HERO QUESTS! Those are just hero-centric quests that award xp based on hero abilities/play totals. The next level that grants an unlock is 20 with 'epic' hero quests. It's a huge grind. Probably takes around half a dozen or more matches to advance a level 10-20. So around... a dozen or more hours of playtime. People are already afk'ing in co-op games to farm xp.

More info: I don't think there's any fog of war at all. You can see where the enemies are most of the time. But, again, since the maps are so small it's pretty irrelevant. Creep camps aren't meant for grinding xp, if you defeat one you 'recruit' it to attack the enemy base sort of like how Alterac Valley worked in WoW. Also, can't believe I mentioned it before but it's a very team-centric game. You aren't award kills unless you kill someone completely solely. Otherwise you get credit for a 'takedown.' All xp seems to be shared as you level as a team.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Necrofag here!




Blizzard send me an alpha invite some days ago and tried this one a bit (by a bit I mean all weekend) It's really basic when compared against other MOBAs around.
But it IS fast and somewhat fun. We played as a team of five Dota 2 veterans and had good time with the game. Playing for 15-20 min per game was something that we were looking for, standart MOBAs took long to finish (hell, they took long to start even...)
Blizz is going to milk a lot of cows with this one with them skins and mounts. Even in alpha stage there are lots of crazies with real money only mounts and skins...

 

[Mangoose]

Blizz is going to milk a lot of Taurens with this one with them skins and mounts.

Fixed

 

[Damned Registrations]

The other day I watched someone walk up to remote mines and start punching them. They died, and defended their actions by saying 'I didn't think they had that much range.'

I assume this class of retard, the kind of person that can't read tooltips or unit names or anything else and is confused at how something he was standing on top of could have reached him, is the target audience for this game.

 

[Metro]

Even in alpha stage there are lots of crazies with real money only mounts and skins...

I would buy a Valla + Vampire Hunter skin for $5. Plus you get this mount!

 

[Clockwork Knight]

My Little Goat > Major League Gaming

 

[Metro]

It's 'Wonder Billie,' get it right! They made some changes from six months ago (they took down the Alpha for about two weeks and reset all levels/gold) and actually abandoned this retarded rune system they were going to implement that mirrored the one in LoL (never played so I don't know). The devs don't solicit much feedback on the forums or, at least, don't make it known they're actually reading. Not that it matters because most of the posts are just whining over how people want more gold so they can buy all the heroes. The rate could use a little tuning but as it stands just doing daily quests you could average a 5,000 gold hero every two weeks (some are 2k, some are 5k, some are 7.5k, some are 10k). They don't understand the whole point of these grinds is to spur people to spend real money.

Prices seem fine to me and out of the 30ish heroes on the roster there's only half a dozen or so that I find interesting. They also produce them at a snail's pace. Maybe two every three months or so? I just play a few games to finish dailies and hoard gold as apparently they aren't going to be wiping purchases from here on out.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Even in alpha stage there are lots of crazies with real money only mounts and skins...

I would buy a Valla + Vampire Hunter skin for $5. Plus you get this mount!

This is why I'm not making any purchases right now Seen too many Zeratuls, Tassadars and Muradins riding Billie already, nothing is sacred anymore...

10K gold seemed a bit much at first for heroes but 2-4K heroes balance it mostly. People just don't get that they don't need to buy every goddamn hero.

Edit: I actually like a lot heroes, most of them really have different play styles. My favs. for now are Abathur, Zagara, Chen, Sgt Hammer, Tyrael, Tassadar and Muradin.

 

[Metro]

Heroes I'd actually buy (with gold or otherwise): Stitches, Tychus, Sonya, Uther, Valla, and maybe a couple others. I find most of the 'tanky' characters, like Tyrael, Muradin, and Chen, boring.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I have never played a MOBA.

Likewise.

Wonder if the proliferation of online gaming is part of the reason for the decline. It seems nobody cares about making good single player games anymore. The mere fact you are playing against real human beings means a designer doesn't have to worry too much about creating an interesting system since human ingenuity alone will derive depth and complexity even when there isn't any, and the only difficult part for a developer is to make everything perfectly balanced, as much as they can anyway.

I have a friend who plays Dota2 religiously (he is also a Starcraft and Warcraft III veteran, and he considers Dota2 to be greater then either of those), and the way he explained the game to me didn't make a lick of sense. It was all very meta, like somebody trying to explain Starcraft to a person who has never played an RTS before by focusing exclusively on the strategies used by online players. One time i remember having a conversation to him about the decline of gaming and he said that single player games didn't interest him anymore, because a computer could never compete with a real human person in terms of difficulty. I mean, this is true but i still found his argument disturbing.

 

[Zed]

I received an invite.

Not even gonna try it

It's gonna flop so hard.

I have a friend who plays Dota2 religiously (he is also a Starcraft and Warcraft III veteran, and he considers Dota2 to be greater then either of those), and the way he explained the game to me didn't make a lick of sense.

Your friend has a refined taste in competitive online games.

 

[Metro]

I doubt it flops. Blizzard has a captive audience of people who will spend money on any of their products.

 

[abija]

After playing a bit I'm beginning to think it has more depth than LoL. It all depends if they can keep all the objectives on the map relatively balanced.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Lol, they are adding Lost Vikings to the rooster
But they are sitting in a ship...