Heroes of Might & Magic 7

[Darth Roxor]

I've tried playing through Tribes of the East recently too. Stopped in the middle of the orc campaign. That shit is seriously friggin boring.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Mechanics are decent though, definitely better than what was introduced in IV.

 

[Archibald]

Has HoMM5 actually introduced anything new to the series asides of skill wheel and racial abilities for heroes? Most of the stuff was either directly taken from earlier games or taken and adjusted.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Most of the hate 4 gets for not being like 3, you see some people would like if HoMM was like EA's sports series with new release every year that is almost identical to the last one.
There was also a problem with it being unfinished. Parent company was hurting (some fans of retroactive history like to claim that HoMM4 killed it and everything was fine before it was released) and IIRC base game was rushed. Two released expansions were obvious cash-ins since they added very little (if we don't count campaigns and couple of neutral creatures then I think they didn't add anything at all) and fixed nothing. For comparisons sake 5 was utter shit when released but was fixed into decent game with two expansions.

I'd prefer if new HoMM game actually finished and fixed homm4 instead of trying to make homm3 again and again but this time with dynasty weapons system and prettier graphics.

Interesting. Still, 3 must have done a lot right for such an outcry.

I'm not a fan of the dynasty weapons in 6. I think less would have been more, say 10-15 instead of the 30+.

I'm not that sold on the move to 3d graphics. That's one thing I'm interested in seeing how it turns out in 7 with the new engine.

 

[QuestionMan]

The most unbearable thing in HOMM4 was the duration it took the AI to complete its turns. It was like the computer calculated each battle (even AI vs AI) at the same speed as a human sipping on coffee while considering his next move. Graphics were nice though. Heroes 7 looks like a decent part to come, stepping in the footsteps of Heroes 5 which was stepping in the footsteps of Heroes 3.

 

[FeelTheRads]

A couple of dumb decisions and obviously the lack of a random map generator are its biggest flaws, otherwise I think 4 is really good.
I liked the original campaigns a lot too. The expansions are terribly boring.

Edit: And speaking of trolling in Heroes, picking up a Chaos hero in 4 and leveling him up to Grandmaster Stealth works nice for trolling.
Alternatively, you get trolled in 3 if you play random and get Fortress.

 

[Archibald]

A couple of dumb decisions and obviously the lack of a random map generator are its biggest flaws, otherwise I think 4 is really good.
I liked the original campaigns a lot too. The expansions are terribly boring.

Original campaigns I think were some of the best (personally I'd say that Academy and Undead/Demon were best) in whole homm series. Covered all races, had good writing and were interesting to play for the most part. On other hand expansions really felt like someone came to the office and said "release date is tomorrow, come up with something".

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Has HoMM5 actually introduced anything new to the series asides of skill wheel and racial abilities for heroes? Most of the stuff was either directly taken from earlier games or taken and adjusted.

I'm not sure why you use the word "anything" in what seems to be a derogatory manner, what you mentioned is already better than the retarded "improvements" that 4 brought. Add initiative, branching upgrades done right and much improved balance and there is no contest.

 

[Archibald]

I didn't meant it in derogatory manner. I agree that with all expansions HoMM5 is better game than 4, thou I always viewed it more like return to the roots type of game than the one who tries to offer new things.

 

[Kaucukovnik]

You could garrison troops in resource structures in IV, it solved the problem of weak one-troop heroes constantly retaking them and also gave you good use of units that joined you but didn't fit in your army.

HOMM IV did some interesting changes (skill system, units able to move without heroes), but since the style and art direction was mostly crap and Enroth was dumped, most people lumped it all together under "shit sequel, give us HOMM III back!" It was far less of a disaster than the last NWC entry in the main M&M series.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Has HoMM5 actually introduced anything new to the series asides of skill wheel and racial abilities for heroes? Most of the stuff was either directly taken from earlier games or taken and adjusted.

A Technicality that made the Multiplayer more enjoyable in Heroes 5 than 3. Campaign cinematics with terrible dialogues and dull characters. Were there Caravans full of recruited units that you could intercept in Heroes 3? I don't remember that well.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You could garrison troops in resource structures in IV

I'm p. sure that was already present in one of the III expansion packs. I think it was Shadow of Deff.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yep, it was possible, but rather pointless. The Haunted mine spell from II however...

 

[bloodlover]

The most unbearable thing in HOMM4 was the duration it took the AI to complete its turns. It was like the computer calculated each battle (even AI vs AI) at the same speed as a human sipping on coffee while considering his next move. Graphics were nice though. Heroes 7 looks like a decent part to come, stepping in the footsteps of Heroes 5 which was stepping in the footsteps of Heroes 3.

I don't remember having this problem in H4 before? Maybe slow PC? I had it in H5 though.

Imo the biggest flaw H4 had was the lack of RMG. Many (if not most) people play the frachise just for that.

 

[Carceri]

Never had this problem with H4 either. It's strange, but I remember that In H3 on certain random maps towards the end if an enemy hero was loaded with artifacts, troops, spells could take some time to complete the turn.

Imo the biggest flaw H4 had was the lack of RMG. Many (if not most) people play the frachise just for that.

Yeah, pretty much this, although(I might be completely talking out of my ass) IIRC there was a tool made by a dude known as Slava, or something like this that had a random map generator for H4. I never bothered with it so I'm not very knowledgeable about the subject. I just downloaded various maps made for 1v1 from whatever websites I could find. But, tl;dr: yeah, no map random map generator for a game mostly played for it's multiplayer it's pure suicide.

Edit: looked like a double post, but for some reason it's not

 

[Archibald]

But, tl;dr: yeah, no map random map generator for a game mostly played for it's multiplayer it's pure suicide.

Starcraft and Starcraft II players always play on preset maps, no?

 

[Carceri]

Are you saying this only for the sake of arguing? Starcraft doesn't have such a high degree of randomness as an important part of the gameplay. Also maps in Heroes tend to dictate in a more direct manner the flow of the game (with the 'objective' based gameplay).

 

[Archibald]

Well that sentence looked like you were speaking generally about multiplayer strategy games and not specifically about HoMM series. But it seams that I got that wrong.

 

[Carceri]

My bad for the unclear phrasing.

 

[bloodlover]

I seems that we won't be seeing Inferno in the new game either. I am predicting the wave of angry people shouting that the game is shit and the devs. saying: "Well you voted for it, we just made it"

 

[FeelTheRads]

It's not like we're actually seeing Heroes in what's supposed to be a Heroes game, so...

 

[zerotol]

Are you saying this only for the sake of arguing? Starcraft doesn't have such a high degree of randomness as an important part of the gameplay. Also maps in Heroes tend to dictate in a more direct manner the flow of the game (with the 'objective' based gameplay).

But all the generated maps have basically the same setup: basic mines near and advanced resources a bit farther with a higher level creature guarding it and the exit to your area guarded by a level 6 creature.

Isn't game more about assessing which fights you can take instead of how the maps are generated?

 

[Zeriel]

But all the generated maps have basically the same setup: basic mines near and advanced resources a bit farther with a higher level creature guarding it and the exit to your area guarded by a level 6 creature.

Isn't game more about assessing which fights you can take instead of how the maps are generated?

Comparing them is pointless, anyway. Starcraft 2 was designed from the ground-up as a highly competitive game where equality of opportunity is hyper-important, maps must generally be symmetrical, the metagame is all about seeing who can exploit the same general situation better, et cetera. Heroes still has its roots in RPGs where it is as much about exploration and developing your hero as anything else. As far as I am aware, the most popular/renowned maps for Heroes games tend to be scenarios with unique storylines or concepts, not balanced 1v1 arena duel maps.

Regarding actual Heroes 7 developments, the leading lineup for Dungeon right now has a lot of monsters like troglodytes, medusas, EVUHL GOLEMZ, and so forth. I am cautiously optimistic that Dungeon might turn out considerably less homoerotic than 6.

Regarding maps and Heroes 7, my main concern is that since it's unreal engine the map tool will be too complicated for most people to make maps. There will of course always be the stubborn people, but it's truly simple mapmaking tools that tend to lead to a modding/community renaissance where there is lots of quality content to get people involved.

 

[Zeriel]

Article on armies here.

As you may know already, there are 3 tiers of creatures in Heroes VII. The core creatures are the cheapest, more numerous and less powerful ones, the champions are the opposite: few, costly and very powerful. Elites are between those two extremes.

In Heroes VII, there are more subtleties in the power range of creatures. There is generally one core creature and one elite creature noticeably stronger than the two others of the same tier. It feels a bit like game prior to the tier system (Heroes V and earlier games) and it is supposed to bring more variety and liveliness.

So like I was suggesting they might do, core/elite/champion are no longer made up of units that are identical in power/stats within that tier, it will probably be more like earlier games where there is slow graduations of power between each unit.

Not gonna lie, the "some factions are bad against others, deal with it scrub!" part sounds pretty awful, but who knows, countering has occasionally been interesting and fine in other games, and maybe they're exaggerating its impact.

While we're at it:

Wizards Troops Core

Wizards Troops Elite

Also the Dungeon lineup vote finished a while back, it's going to be less focused on dark elves and more focused on monsters, with troglodytes and medusas returning, along with some sort of shadowsteel golem that is possessed by faceless. The only art we have that is new so far is this guy, the rest were just represented by past games models/concept art:

 

[Archibald]

Gargoyles with tits.

In Heroes VII, each faction has two champion creatures, but each town can only dwell one kind. Also, it’s generally better to have more of one kind than trying to have both.

I missed this before or is this new info? Kinda reminds of HoMM4.