Heroes of Might & Magic 7

[Storyfag]

The things I saw and read here make me glad the HOMM series is not very dear to me

What is dear to you, because we will fucking rape it.

Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you.
―Darth Plagueis

 

[Zeriel]

Thinking of homm7 haven as a more homm2 style (knight) faction, the 'swordbearer' might be the new crusader. I hope they come up with a better name. I'm pretty sure the current names are provisional. They changed horseman to cavalier after all.

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Perhaps guardian/justicar will have some kind of aura/support role?

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I was thinking of justicar especially, but in a more critical sense. It bewilders me why the artwork/design of so many units in Duel of Champions seems so fresh and different, but then in their mainline series they manage to be so disappointingly samey. You can find a dozen cards for every faction in DoC that have new and interesting themes, but it just doesn't seem to carry over into their other titles. Maybe that's just the nature of a card game where they ask a bunch of different artists to do their own thing.

That being said, new Haven is a step in the right direction, I really like the Heroes 2 vibe and I think it's intentional.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

\
Functionally, what is the difference between this and the way Heroes 2 and 3 did it? Not a rhetorical question, I am actually curious, having played both the actual in-game experience is about the same in terms of building up your town. The earleir games had tiers of units too, they just weren't loudly announced as such. If you mean "the units were balanced poorly in H6", okay, but that's a separate issue from the 3 tiers.

Wat, how can anyone even ask a question like that? The hp bloat of tier 1 units in VI was ridiculous and in tandem with the heal/resurrect buffs turned combat into a boring slog, I didn't play the campaigns at all but afair many people complained that even the missions were designed around this shit mechanic of keeping all the hp-bloated, ressurectable units alive to withstand the ai spam. You can't even compare the impact of tier 7 units in III to tier 3 in VI, where they would get raped by medium-sized tier 1 melee stacks.

 

[Zeriel]

Again, that's the balance of individual units, not the "core, elite, champion" system as a whole. They're just labels. I guess you could make some weird argument that the fact they still call them "core, elite, champion" mandates that the unit balance has to be exactly the same, but... well, that is a pretty weird argument. If HP bloat remains, it'll remain because they like it, not because it is somehow intricately tied to the unit tiers.

It's too bad modding is almost certainly not going to be a thing with this game being Unreal tech, since unit stats would be one of the easiest things to fix ever.

Final commentary on HP bloat in HOMM6: I played the game a lot, and my experience was not that low tier units were massively less tough than high tier units, but that every unit in the game just had too much HP. Huge stacks of low tier units did lots of damage just as in previous games, it just wasn't enough in relation to the HP of every unit. My low tier stacks couldn't one-shot most big stacks--but neither could my massive champion tier stacks, either. It was a problem across the board, no matter what the level of the unit. Also, Haven was by design tanky as fuck in mechanics, which was a separate problem. (The Pikeman units were specifically designed to prevent units from dying by sharing damage of adjacent tiles.)

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Again - wat. The hp bloat and unsatisfactory impact of theoretically strong, expensive creatures is caused directly by the 3 tiers system.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I played the game a lot

 

[mhm32167]

More haven units revealed http://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/armies-of-the-light-part-3
German mercenaries joining the haven armies? And angels (pretty much anyway), as expected.

And if anyone in Russia wants to ask Erwan le Breton why he hates might and magic so much https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/m-m-heroes-vii-at-igromir-2014

 

[bloodlover]

After the bullshit of choosing a faction, Ubi came with another one: vote between Inferno or Dungeon

https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/dungeon-vs-inferno-you-choose

 

[Darth Roxor]

Lame-ass Dungeon with gay-ass dark elves vs lame-ass Inferno

Which is better and why? Discuss!!!!

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I still didn't recover after seeing their retarded dungeon in HoMM 5. All of the cities in HoMM 5 were retarded by the way. I kept staring at this shit and wondering "how do people get around in that clusterfuck". Buildings dosing was also shit. It looked as if hey just designed a city and them arbitrarily assigned functions to random buildings. Still voted for dungeon because even generic dark elves are better than retarded demons who kill everyone "for teh evul XD".

 

[FeelTheRads]

SO KAWAIIIIII ^_____________^;;;;;;

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[Zeriel]

The haven section of the site now also has 3D models for all the units and upgrades.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Them marksmen Crossbowmen? More like panzer generals

Also, full helmets on archers, Jesus Christ what is this i dont even

And of course totally-not-griffin doges have unlimited retaliation

'Landsknechte - old wolf dialect' that's like 'fuck you - ancient guard proverb'

Also - spearman aura of protection, monkor aura of protection, seraph aura of protection, justicar aura of retaliation, UH-HUH I SURE LIKE WHERE THIS IS HEADIN'. It's amazing that the swordmasters have 'indomitable' and not AURA OF INDOMITABILITY!

 

[Untermensch]

Why can't the art style be normal, instead of this overdesigned shit

 

[Renegen]

The naming convention hardass in me is mad, Landsknecht? Abbot? Sentinel? Cuirassier? Marksman?

I guess they need to try new things, raping the old games while keeping the presentation the same certainly wasn't the direction to go.

 

[Cyberarmy]

They are trying too hard...

 

[zerotol]

SO KAWAIIIIII ^_____________^;;;;;;

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Thats a derp face if i have ever seen one, terrible drawing.

 

[Suicidal]

All this faction voting shit is making me sad. It seems they are trying their hardest to include as less content as possible while pretending they care about their customers' opinion. Why not include all factions instead of wasting time on making up retarded names and trying to fix 6's shortcomings yet at the same time trying to keep the game as close to 6 as possible? Why can't they just take the heroes 3 or 5 formula and work from there? How hard can it be?

 

[Thane Solus]

wow, these concept artists are probably the worst i ve seen, did they get them for free at devianshit art?

ubisoft never changes...

 

[Archibald]

I think its funny how original devs cared very little about lore and it ended up being rather unique and good. Sure they had few ideas that persisted over the games but realistically speaking its full of fuckups and retarded ideas that ended up being more than sum of its parts. I mean we weren't that far from being able to kill dragons with chainsaws in HoMM3.

Are current developers responsible for lore trying too hard? Case in point, why monk is called chaplain? Why not angels but seraphs? No comment on Lanwhatever or new resource names is needed probably. If you look back at older HoMM games they had very simplistic names for pretty much everything and it served its purpose. Do these developers have to come up with X amount of new names every day to get payed? Overall, to me, Ashan (and most of the "new" lore in various games) feels very synthetic due to designers blatantly trying too hard.

Why can't the art style be normal, instead of this overdesigned shit

http://mmh7.ubi.com/en/factions/haven/creatures/chaplain
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes3/h3px/monk.gif

It seams that nobody gives a shit about simplicity anymore.

Also, I never really played VI, how do these unit tiers work? You can't get to tier 2 before tier 1 is maxed or what?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I could forgive Landshit because devs are from Germany. They probably wantet to put something German in HoMM. I'm Polish and if I could include any unit I wanted in HoMM I'd put in winged husars over cavalary and strigas over wraiths.

 

[Zeriel]

Archibald

It basically works the way it did in previous games. You build a unit's building to recruit that unit. Town level dictates what buildings you can make (level 1 -> 3 units, level 2 -> 3 more units, level 3 -> ultimate unit), and town level is just building the main income building (village/town/capitol whatever from previous games).

The bitching about unit tiers in 6 is vastly overexaggerated, the only real difference is that there are less tiers and hence more clumping of unit power.

 

[Cadmus]

Archibald

It basically works the way it did in previous games. You build a unit's building to recruit that unit. Town level dictates what buildings you can make (level 1 -> 3 units, level 2 -> 3 more units, level 3 -> ultimate unit), and town level is just building the main income building (village/town/capitol whatever from previous games).

The bitching about unit tiers in 6 is vastly overexaggerated, the only real difference is that there are less tiers and hence more clumping of unit power.

As far as I remember, the tiers mean that the units on each tier are sort of equal and serve a little bit different purpose while previously every new unit was better than the last one. This creates a fucking HP bloat as the designers try to justify each unit's assigned tier instead of calling them lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 unit as they should. It means that every fucking unit must have at least 5 skills, 30 hitpoints and some bullshit specialty about it.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yup, the 3 levels is waaaay too few + people who designed that game obviously weren't particularly good at their jobs so the unit progress is just flat and boring. In II-III building a tier 7 dwelling was a huge deal but when you got it up you knew that the reap train is coming and you're gonna sit behind the wheel. In VI building the tier 3 is plain meh, you simply need these units for the numbers as the opponent will have them as well. But forget the huge impact dragons or angels had on the battlefield in III. Early combat and creep is also just samey, boring and drawn out, forget about having different creep strategies, units that were useless for creeping but good for hero battles, etc. You just cover the map with your level 1 units no matter who you play, they are all strong and don't die if you're not retarded.

 

[Zeriel]

These are all good points, but what I was trying to say earlier is that they aren't neccessarily intricately tied into the core-elite-champion system, they are the result of bad design in general, and would exist if the same people had done a Heroes 3 style unit tier system too.

As an example, H7 is still using the core-elite-champion tiers but they have already said units will have way less abilities, in the vein of 2 or 3.