Heroes of Might & Magic 4 Defense Thread

[v1rus]

Whats all teh fuss about HoMM7? Tried it yesterday, played a couple of weeks, looks decent. More of the same ofc, but nothing as scandalous as 6.

Also, gtfo HoMM4. HoMM4 is a good game. Is it better than HoMM3? No way. Different? Hell yeah baby, as different as Heroes could possibly get, and I appreciate that approach way more than "same but with bettah graphics" that V took. Talking about base game, expansions (ToE in particular) did some fun things. All in all, if nothing else, its the only game that truly stands apart from the rest, and you gotta cut it some slack for that. They tried something different. Did it work out? Kinda, but it wasnt nearly good enough. Still, that doesnt mean that it wasnt a good, respectable shot.

Still have to actually play 6. And I will do so, as soon as i figure out how to run it properly. Fucking Ubisoft. Funfact - убийство (ubiistvo) means murder on Russian. Quite fitting, since not only have they been trying to murder the series (or rather, the software lelelel) for a decade, but the primary demographic has been Russian since they took over. Its just that Ruskies cant take the hint. Not that I mind, i still dream of an another amazing HoMM game. 8th time's the charm, men.

 

[hoverdog]

Also, gtfo HoMM4. HoMM4 is a good game. Is it better than HoMM3? No way. Different? Hell yeah baby, as different as Heroes could possibly get, and I appreciate that approach way more than "same but with bettah graphics" that V took. Talking about base game, expansions (ToE in particular) did some fun things. All in all, if nothing else, its the only game that truly stands apart from the rest, and you gotta cut it some slack for that. They tried something different. Did it work out? Kinda, but it wasnt nearly good enough. Still, that doesnt mean that it wasnt a good, respectable shot.

HoMM4 would be a good game if it had been actually finished. As it is, it's full of unrealized potential.

 

[v1rus]

Whats all teh fuss about HoMM7? Tried it yesterday, played a couple of weeks, looks decent. More of the same ofc, but nothing as scandalous as 6.

all about money

So, if you torrent it, you get a decent HoMM game?

HoMM4 would be a good game if it had been actually finished. As it is, it's full of unrealized potential.

Cmon, this is gaming industry. Half of the products ship unfinished.

As far as I have seen, HoMM 4 gets most of its hate since its not only "so different" but since it also "took a step backward". The second remark prolly comes from the fact that you cant upgrade creatures anymore (am I the only one who actually enjoyed HoMM II upgrade system?). While bugs and balance are huge problems on the launch (not talking about HoMM4 specifically) their importance fades with time, since community patches fix most, if not all shit that retarded devs ignored. Now, while the game really is as different as it could possible get (and im not only talking about "heroes are units now" and "choose which unit you want to produce", but the whole game simply feels different.), while still remaining a HoMM game, and thats more than ok. Anyone who thinks otherwise can go jerk off on TES 6 Elsweyr. You want to make something good? You have to step out of your safe space comfort zone and try something new. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it kinda works and sometimes it simply doesnt. And any of those results is a way bigger contribution to the than the "same shit, new graphics, recycled music, and an absolutely identical excuse for a story" that's been plaguing this industry for years.

 

[hello friend]

Project Equilibrius has been around for ages and has come a long way, but it's still a bland game. But even in light of most games being unfinished on release - HOMM4 was pretty much in alpha + some bugfixing when it was shipped. Unfinished would be an understatement.

 

[v1rus]

Project Equilibrius has been around for ages and has come a long way, but it's still a bland game. But even in light of most games being unfinished on release - HOMM4 was pretty much in alpha + some bugfixing when it was shipped. Unfinished would be an understatement.

What do you mean by bland exactly?

 

[hello friend]

Sterile. Lifeless. Empty. The soul failed to make the transition. This is terms of art direction, gameplay, whatever. The exception here is the campaigns, some of which are the high point of the entire series - Gauldoth Half-dead, for one. Then on the the other hand you have the Kraaaaazy Kiiiiing and the Zomg Order and Chaos UNITE ones, which were absolutely terrible. But the well done campaigns, right down to the intro segments - pure magic.

I've tried to pick it up again many times, with new and fresh maps and an equally fresh enthusiasm. I always drop it pretty quickly, apart from aformentioned campaigns this game can't grip me for five seconds.

Oh yeah, there's some good music too.

 

[v1rus]

Sterile. Lifeless. Empty.

And here I always loved that vibe. I'm petty sure they took that direction on purpose. Made sense since Armageddon an' all that.

The game does have some rather interesting parts, really - the hero/class system had a lot of potential, music was better than evah (and we all know how good HoMM music is), you had a new, strange art direction of old creatures, first time they added spellbooks to minions, and tons of other tiny-winy stuff. Biggest points go to that Preserve portal thingy. Such a fun idea.

On a slightly different topic, played around HoMM6. 4 resources completely destroy, well, everything. Aside from that, it was kinda fun for the first ingame month or two. Then the lack of content sinks in. Five factions? Really guys? No moar spellbooks? And what the fuck, where are the classic factions? Doubt ill be giving it another chance anytime soon, but I did enjoy Sanctuary. Kappas are so awusum, on so many different lvls. On the other hand, those sharks are boring af, and no matter how hard i try, i just cant tell apart those two white chicks or w/e they are.

 

[Archibald]

am I the only one who actually enjoyed HoMM II upgrade system?

I think pretty much everyone who likes HoMM2 had no problems with its upgrade system. On the other hand I don't find it particularly important aspect, HoMM3 just streamlined it. Streamlining is an ugly word around here, but in this particular case I don't have problems with it either. Basically I'm fine with HoMM2 and HoMM3 in this regard, not a deal breaker to me.

Certainly there were, and are, people complaining about lack of upgrades in HoMM4, but from my experience people had more problems with you being able to buy only 5 unit types from town than with lack of upgrades.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yes, and in most cases a player can quickly identify a superior unit so it's basically 5 un-upgradable units versus 7 upgradable ones. Huge decline. Branching is good, but give branching upgrades with different strengths/weaknesses like Disciples or Tribes of the East does, not this silly crap.

 

[v1rus]

So you know Russian? Then please update me on what is going on with Equilibris 3.6 and the Heroes IV HD announced in August.

Actually, I don't. My mothers tongue and Russian share more than a couple of words, the word for murder being one of 'em obv, but no way in universe i can actually understand a complete sentence.

Certainly there were, and are, people complaining about lack of upgrades in HoMM4, but from my experience people had more problems with you being able to buy only 5 unit types from town than with lack of upgrades.

Well, yeah, but i never understood what's the problem with that. You had tons of neutral minions and dwellings, and heroes took a slot. Worst case scenario, you ran around with two heroes and 5 units.

Yes, and in most cases a player can quickly identify a superior unit so it's basically 5 un-upgradable units versus 7 upgradable ones. Huge decline. Branching is good, but give branching upgrades with different strengths/weaknesses like Disciples or Tribes of the East does, not this silly crap.

Sure, Disciples did the job way better, but it was a way different game. Heck, ToE also did it better. Still, it was the first time in series that they gave branching a shot, and it was a fair try. I seem to recall that not all choices were that easy tho. I could never decide between phoenixes and fairy dragons. Then again, this could be a matter of taste.

 

[Gal]

Hi lads, bumped into that thread by random and have to say cheers for the awesome comments. Fuck Ubishit and fuck Ashan, fuck retarded mechanics and warcraft art direction alright. So how can I brofist posts?

please update me on what is going on with Equilibris 3.6 and the Heroes IV HD announced in August..

I don't know in details but they are working for sure, in fact h4 modding is getting a new life, for example are you aware of this? And h3 Succession Wars coming soon too btw, yearly hota update and other ongoing projects, good things to come.

 

[hello friend]

VCMI .99 dropping soonish as well, looks like. Bunch of changes.

 

[Gal]

Have you seen the new werewolf? That guy is fucking good.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

So how can I brofist posts?

Either wait a year, or donate to the Codex so that you can be a patron.

 

[v1rus]

Gal
If you decide to donate, be sure to check the rest of the forums first. We are a special bunch.

 

[Archibald]

Nothing special about lynching niggers.

 

[Parsifarka]

I don't know in details but they are working for sure, in fact h4 modding is getting a new life, for example are you aware of this?

I saw it and didn't interest me -now I have downloaded and tried it and cannot find worth therein yet. I guess it has more significance as promise of things to be done in Heroes 4 with the current tools than in itself.
Equilibris HD is where the thing is.

Heroes 3 The Succession Wars has been close to release for years, I hope this time is for real. BTW, are you Galaad from HC?

 

[Gal]

Well we have to wait, you can follow SW's development in Forums of Enroth, I'm pretty positive it's coming soon, after almost a year of delay...

Yep I am, couldn't register as Galaad here as it was already taken so I went for Gal.

 

[Lujo]

Played them all I to V a fair bunch. Honestly, 2 and 3 mostly just feature creeped something that actually had less design space than it looked like it had. And transitioned the graphics from symbolic and cartoony to semi-realistic. That last bit is what made 3 so beloved, because taste in visual presentation tends to go from cartoony at young age towards realistic at adolescence (because cartoons are for kids, dooh), and it hit its demographic at just the right time. And for most people the taste kinda stops evolving around adolescence, too, so it stayed their favorite. But, realistically, 3 was a bloated mess and it's kind of amazing that it's so beloved when you pick it up today, because it's a really, really shallow game. Obviously, each early installment had about one or two interface improvements that made going back to the previous one painful. The option to wait in combat, for example, makes Heroes III win contests with 1 and 2 by virtue of "wait" not being there to begin with being absolutely stupid in retrospect. If you go a bit in-depth, it's quite possible that changing the Heroes 1 original spell memorization to mana points broke the system mechanically making magic heroes inherently weaker (or indistinct as it were).

Heroes IV you can actually trace every single thing they did to someone saying "this particular stupid and clunky thing was stupid and clunky all along" and folks trying their best to come up with a solution. It's way deepest of the bunch, but by the point it rolled around what the audience was expecting from their Heroes game wasn't depth - it was the same old borked and simple thing with lots of feature creep that doesn't do anything. They got something much closer to an actual interesting and strategic game (really, this is why the campaigns which feel great feel great, there just aren't enough meaningful features to make a scenario out of in earlier heroes games, or in the later ones to be honest). If they had more time to develop it (like, really, just tweaking all the creatures in the branching paths like in Equilibris would've been a huge improvement) and if they made the interface look less like cream cake (it was too light and white, and the audience was by this point used to the darkish, brownish interface of Heroes 3), it would have probably gone down as the only mechanically sound one.

Back in the day saying what I just said would've been a huge blasphemy. Even I initially disliked 4. But then I played it a big bunch in college, and when 5 came out everyone who was taking a break from heroes because of "how awful 4 was" became overjoyed. "This is the real heroes! This is an actual strategic game!" they said. "4 didn't have a grid, how can you even plan your moves if you don't have a grid!?". I tried to tell them 4 was way more strategic, but they told me I was a noob who doesn't know how to play. And then I never lost a match or setpiece battle of Heroes 5 to them ever. It was just a very casual game in comparison. As time went on it turned out that many of the more hardcore players kind of ended up appreciating IV as the highest point in the series and now consider 3 to be overrated.

These days I find I enjoy heroes 1 a lot and kinda wish there was a project which would combine 1-4 properly. Art direction from heroes 1, unit branching from 4 (although I'd give more options), mixed enemy stacks for more varied encounters (you just can't go back below 4 after you get used to it, it all looks ridiculous), units detachable from heroes like in 4, fliers which don't traverse the battlefield like 3+, obstacle units blocking certain archers like 4, spell memorization more similar to 1 than later installments, less city building clutter, fewer resources needed to upgrade mage guild to bring spells into play like in 4, actually great and interesting spells like in 4, simultaneous retaliation without first strike like in 4 (this is an enormous thing) , monsters with spellboks like in 4, consumable items like in 4... The pattern here might seem like it's just 4, 4, 4, but that's the problem with the series - 4 improved on quite a few things which could've been done right after heroes 1... It mostly just arsed up the presentation and did too much at once which alienated the casual crowd.

 

[adddeed]

HoMM2 is the best, followed by HoMM4. But Age of Wonders beats both of them anyway.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I don't think HoMM is exactly comparable to AoW, they scratch different itches. The empire aspect of HoMM I think is way superior to AoW's, and the simpler tactical combat is kinda neat if you're feeling lazy. AoW is definitely a more complex series, but HoMM have the entire "explore the map" aspect that is also far superior (custom maps included). HoMM scratches the same itch that a boardgame does, AoW is a little more taxing.

edit: HoMM 3 is my favourite, although I think 2 has a lot more personality. 3 is just more playable.

 

[Valky]

Eador Genesis feels like the spiritual sequel Homm3 deserved.

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

HoMM 3 was my favorite because it looked the coolest (in my childhood opinion).

 

[Valky]

HoMM 3 was my favorite because it looked the coolest (in my childhood opinion).

I agree because I liked the more natural look it went for but I understand the appeal of H2. I'm looking forward to the succession wars being finished.

 

[adddeed]

I don't think HoMM is exactly comparable to AoW, they scratch different itches. The empire aspect of HoMM I think is way superior to AoW's, and the simpler tactical combat is kinda neat if you're feeling lazy. AoW is definitely a more complex series, but HoMM have the entire "explore the map" aspect that is also far superior (custom maps included). HoMM scratches the same itch that a boardgame does, AoW is a little more taxing.

edit: HoMM 3 is my favourite, although I think 2 has a lot more personality. 3 is just more playable.

HoMM is too much about clicking around the map collecting things. Plus i think the upkeep system of AoW is superior to that weekly thing in HoMM where you can have as many units as you wish. And the stacks system is inferior to the single unit system of AoW.

That said, both series are great and ive spent lots of hours playing HoMM.