Help! I despise huge open world games, but I want to experience TW3!

[Paul_cz]

For fuck sake, disable the points of interest icons on the map.

edit - sorry, saw you did that already and your OCD still fucks you up. You are hopeless then I guess :D

edit 2 - and now I noticed this is an old as shit resurrect thread. Dammit.

 

[Perkel]

You are a dumbfuck.
Who is fucking chasing you that you need to finish game asap ?

I had this problem like 2 years ago. Gonna finish that game quick so that i can play XXXX.
Its bullshit and don't do it, seriously. Take a game and take your time to finish it.

 

[Jools]

Witcher 3 is one of the most "fake" open world games out there, as there is really little-to-no point in exploring every nook and cranny of the maps, other than maybe taking screenshots of very superbly rendered locations. My advice is, just stick with the main plot, or with whatever subplot you find interesting. Forget about 100%'ing stuff, it's not really worth it anyways.

 

[Doktor Best]

Nah there were ofcourse pretty simple POIs but there were also quite a few decent ones that told small stories. The problem was the exp/lootsystem that didnt really encourage exploration. It was improved a bit with the expansion though.

 

[Cadmus]

Witcher 3 is one of the most "fake" open world games out there, as there is really little-to-no point in exploring every nook and cranny of the maps, other than maybe taking screenshots of very superbly rendered locations. My advice is, just stick with the main plot, or with whatever subplot you find interesting. Forget about 100%'ing stuff, it's not really worth it anyways.

This is what faggots want you to think.
W3 world is pretty natural-looking. If it wasn't for the level scaling shit, the world is perfectly good as an open world. You see, the point of this kind of world is not to have filler shit all over it but to actually resemble a world thus adding a sense of scale, grandness and verisimilitude.

I switched to playing without any minimap and with all the undiscovered POI disabled and it's such a difference I totally recommend it.
The idea is that the world is big and it's pretty realistic and you can see it and walk through it. You're not supposed to have a treasure chest every 5 meters (well you almost do, but it's not bad).

 

[Jools]

Witcher 3 is one of the most "fake" open world games out there, as there is really little-to-no point in exploring every nook and cranny of the maps, other than maybe taking screenshots of very superbly rendered locations. My advice is, just stick with the main plot, or with whatever subplot you find interesting. Forget about 100%'ing stuff, it's not really worth it anyways.

This is what faggots want you to think.
W3 world is pretty natural-looking. If it wasn't for the level scaling shit, the world is perfectly good as an open world. You see, the point of this kind of world is not to have filler shit all over it but to actually resemble a world thus adding a sense of scale, grandness and verisimilitude.

I switched to playing without any minimap and with all the undiscovered POI disabled and it's such a difference I totally recommend it.
The idea is that the world is big and it's pretty realistic and you can see it and walk through it. You're not supposed to have a treasure chest every 5 meters (well you almost do, but it's not bad).

Which is what I said, but with the edgy factor in it. It's beautiful per se, it doesn't serve any other purpose than "being there". Thus one can either explore and see the sight, or stick to the main plot and live without a care, and be happy either way.

 

[Cadmus]

Witcher 3 is one of the most "fake" open world games out there, as there is really little-to-no point in exploring every nook and cranny of the maps, other than maybe taking screenshots of very superbly rendered locations. My advice is, just stick with the main plot, or with whatever subplot you find interesting. Forget about 100%'ing stuff, it's not really worth it anyways.

This is what faggots want you to think.
W3 world is pretty natural-looking. If it wasn't for the level scaling shit, the world is perfectly good as an open world. You see, the point of this kind of world is not to have filler shit all over it but to actually resemble a world thus adding a sense of scale, grandness and verisimilitude.

I switched to playing without any minimap and with all the undiscovered POI disabled and it's such a difference I totally recommend it.
The idea is that the world is big and it's pretty realistic and you can see it and walk through it. You're not supposed to have a treasure chest every 5 meters (well you almost do, but it's not bad).

Which is what I said, but with the edgy factor in it. It's beautiful per se, it doesn't serve any other purpose than "being there". Thus one can either explore and see the sight, or stick to the main plot and live without a care, and be happy either way.

Your "edgy" was commenting on it in a negative way when it actually serves its intended purpose almost perfectly. What were you trying to say then? It's the exact opposite of what you call "a fake open world".

 

[Jools]

Witcher 3 is one of the most "fake" open world games out there, as there is really little-to-no point in exploring every nook and cranny of the maps, other than maybe taking screenshots of very superbly rendered locations. My advice is, just stick with the main plot, or with whatever subplot you find interesting. Forget about 100%'ing stuff, it's not really worth it anyways.

This is what faggots want you to think.
W3 world is pretty natural-looking. If it wasn't for the level scaling shit, the world is perfectly good as an open world. You see, the point of this kind of world is not to have filler shit all over it but to actually resemble a world thus adding a sense of scale, grandness and verisimilitude.

I switched to playing without any minimap and with all the undiscovered POI disabled and it's such a difference I totally recommend it.
The idea is that the world is big and it's pretty realistic and you can see it and walk through it. You're not supposed to have a treasure chest every 5 meters (well you almost do, but it's not bad).

Which is what I said, but with the edgy factor in it. It's beautiful per se, it doesn't serve any other purpose than "being there". Thus one can either explore and see the sight, or stick to the main plot and live without a care, and be happy either way.

Your "edgy" was commenting on it in a negative way when it actually serves its intended purpose almost perfectly. What were you trying to say then? It's the exact opposite of what you call "a fake open world".

Actually I was talking about your reply being edgy, not mine. :D And you're absolutely right about my poor usage of the word "fake": I should have used "different" or some other word instead. Also my "stick with main plot" advice was referred to the OP only, as he said he has a weird approach to open world games. I personally just go with the flow, I explore when I feel like exploring, and ignore it when I'm hooked up with the current task. Sometimes I use exploration for "breaks".

 

[Doktor Best]

I personally just go with the flow, I explore when I feel like exploring, and ignore it when I'm hooked up with the current task. Sometimes I use exploration for "breaks".

Yeah thats also exactly how i did it, and also how CDProject envisioned their "open world". They wanted to make a big gameworld you could explore and have fun in, yet didnt want to force it upon the player to ruin the pacing for those who simply want to go in for the story.

That doesnt make it pointless as some here claimed, its just not as important. Its a sidedish, like your roasted potatos to the steak. Could you do without them? Most certainly yes. Would it have been a better meal without them? Nope.

 

[HoboForEternity]

If you collect all the "?" Mark on the map and dont enjoy it, yet still forcing yourself to do so, you have a problem.

The point of those are for people that wants extra padding and completion fag that actually enjoy tedious shit like that (yea, despite logic, people like that exist)

 

[Perkel]

Witcher 3 is one of the most "fake" open world games out there, as there is really little-to-no point in exploring every nook and cranny

That is not "fake". That is how it should be.
You idea of open world is called potatoland. Where everything needs to be somewhere regardless if it has sense or not.

This is why TW3 open world is awesome. Because it provides cotext for what you are doing and it isn't context itself.

You don't go somewhere because "Well there is tower out there so there is going to be a loot in that tower for sure"
You go because you are pushed to go there which is normal thing to do.

Problem is that POI is switched on default and people seem to try skyrim aproach to see EVERYTHING they have on map and what is not on map there it doesn't exist probably. Worst blunder ever if you ask me they did with POI on default. Should be NG+ feature.

 

[J_C]

Problem is that POI is switched on default and people seem to try skyrim aproach to see EVERYTHING they have on map and what is not on map there it doesn't exist probably. Worst blunder ever if you ask me they did with POI on default. Should be NG+ feature.

Yeah I realized that was a big mistake, I will definitely turn these helper marks off when I play the game next time.

 

[Ludo Lense]

Witcher 3 is one of the most "fake" open world games out there, as there is really little-to-no point in exploring every nook and cranny

That is not "fake". That is how it should be.
You idea of open world is called potatoland. Where everything needs to be somewhere regardless if it has sense or not.

This is why TW3 open world is awesome. Because it provides cotext for what you are doing and it isn't context itself.

You don't go somewhere because "Well there is tower out there so there is going to be a loot in that tower for sure"
You go because you are pushed to go there which is normal thing to do.

Problem is that POI is switched on default and people seem to try skyrim aproach to see EVERYTHING they have on map and what is not on map there it doesn't exist probably. Worst blunder ever if you ask me they did with POI on default. Should be NG+ feature.

Yes that is why there is a magical golem creature 100 meters in front of the Nilfgaardian camp and you find the same sword 7 times but at different levels, because that is how open world should be. Witcher 3 is an open world game because that is what sells and CD Projekt was interested in production values first. The gameplay is painfully uninspired.

The "exploration" serves no purposes beyond being there. Your gear is essentially tied to the Witcher armor you want, plants are joke since you are gonna buy them from the herbalist anyway when you get the diagrams because money is a joke. Its cute that you can find short quests here and there but that gets old really quick because a) You know they serve no purpose beyond that small vignette b) rewards are useless (even exp is useless towards the end, I finished the game with 20 something unused skill points).

Inserting ubisoft style maps but with more EMOTION™ does not a good game make.

The Heart of Stone expansion was better in terms of good experience/hour ratio. I have a feeling that Blood&Wine will be vastly superior to the base game due to being 20-30 hours so they can actually focus on good exploration instead of "My son/mom/dad is dead, get useless loot here" note #548679.

 

[Perkel]

Yes that is why there is a magical golem creature 100 meters in front of the Nilfgaardian camp and you find the same sword 7 times but at different levels, because that is how open world should be. Witcher 3 is an open world game because that is what sells and CD Projekt was interested in production values first. The gameplay is painfully uninspired.

The "exploration" serves no purposes beyond being there. Your gear is essentially tied to the Witcher armor you want, plants are joke since you are gonna buy them from the herbalist anyway when you get the diagrams because money is a joke. Its cute that you can find short quests here and there but that gets old really quick because a) You know they serve no purpose beyond that small vignette b) rewards are useless (even exp is useless towards the end, I finished the game with 20 something unused skill points).

Inserting ubisoft style maps but with more EMOTION™ does not a good game make.

The Heart of Stone expansion was better in terms of good experience/hour ratio. I have a feeling that Blood&Wine will be vastly superior to the base game due to being 20-30 hours so they can actually focus on good exploration instead of "My son/mom/dad is dead, get useless loot here" note #548679.

So you found out that golem yourself or you followed point of interest map on your map ?

Because this is what is exploration about.
What you describe is instant gratification. You see point on map == there is loot there. If loot is bad thus shitty exploration.

You didn't explore anything. You didn't wander into unknown. You didn't search anything.
You followed map market and arrived without any problem at place without looking at anything else.


Morrowind got prized for its world precisely because people who "explored" it never knew what they can expect on other side of island, or in that march or in that forest. Loot in that game COULD BE SHIT or there wouldn't be any loot at the end but you went somewhere yourself and found out yourself.

This is why exploration these days got so bad to point where we shouldn't even call it exploration.

Which is why i pointed out that POI were mistake. Hell even minimap is mistake to have switched on constantly.

I personally switched them off right off the bat along with minimap and other "consoletard" nessesities and believe me "exploring" as in venturing into unknown finding out new villages, painting map in your head how to get somewhere once you visited it was experience way more interesting and fun than gameplay and story itself ESPECIALLY since world was actually designed in such a way to be manageable without any map. Best sense of "exploration" since Morrowing and imo it beat it completely.

You know how fucking good it feels to find that Circle on Fyke island yourself ? Or that when that goat fucker said that i need to go to Fyke island and i KNEW how to get there and where it is without looking at map ? Not only i knew where and how to get there but i also knew how it was even named. I got name from conversation from few people near that lake just randomly going through villages. Not only did i know its name, where it was and how to get there without looking at map but i also knew its history before main plot and sidequest even started again from few people talking about it in villages i drove through.

That is essence of exploration. Not if PLACE == LOOT: print "GOOD" else print "BAD"

OR how to get from Baron to Novigrad completely on your own ?

Sure there were moments where i had to use map few times (mainly due to poor description of location from npc) but majority of game i did without it and i played it just fine. Skipped ton of "content" due to this but at least it was my own playtrough and i did what i found out instead of browsing wiki before finishing even one play-trough which is essentially what POI are. Once B&W releases i will redo playtrough same way. Only this time i will have almost whole Skellige + new part of novigrad + B&W world to explore + all those little villages i never saw in my play-trough.

 

[Carrion]

The points of interest are misleading more than anything else, because there's nothing interesting about them. They're just generic locations that are marked on the map for some reason, and almost all of them feel like filler. Most quests, caves and actually interesting things are located elsewhere, and having the PoI markers on may easily make you ignore the rest of the world and just focus on the points of interest, which are by far the worst aspect about it. In that sense the points of interest really do ruin exploration, and in more ways than one. Hearts of Stone thankfully improves upon this by turning many of the generic treasure hunts into actually interesting quests, but the downside is that they all still come down to finding a chest full of worthless junk.

The world surely is gorgeous and well-crafted, but the generic content along with terrible itemization do drag it down quite a bit.

 

[Perkel]

The world surely is gorgeous and well-crafted, but the generic content along with terrible itemization do drag it down quite a bit.

Never said itemization wasn't bad. But itemization and exploration are two different things.
POI based "exploration" is just loot hunt. Not any kind of exploration.

So yeah if you mean by loot hunt TW3 is poor game in this way. But if we talk in Morrowind esque therms (which also didn't have amazing loot btw) is fucking stellar.

Ultimately i think this is simply case of new players vs old ones.

Old ones remember that map and finding way to somewhere is fun and new players never did it on their own so they don't actually know it and confuse "exploration" with "gratification"

Space Engine doesn't contain any loot or gameplay to begin with but it is one of the best "games" to explore space in.

 

[Carrion]

POI based "exploration" is just loot hunt. Not any kind of exploration.

Agreed.

Never said itemization wasn't bad. But itemization and exploration are two different things.

They're linked, though, because your main motivation for exploration is finding good stuff. If almost every item you find is worthless trash, it makes it much less interesting to explore that cave you just found. Morrowind had plenty of interesting and unique items that, most importantly, weren't tied to your level in any way. They weren't around every corner, of course, but just knowing that good stuff existed made it fun to explore the game world. In TW3 every piece of non-witcher gear turns worthless the moment you find your first witcher armor or weapon set, and for the most part you'll be hunting for just alchemy formulae and rare ingredients (which do improve the exploration quite a bit, especially early in the game).

But if we talk in Morrowind esque therms (which also didn't have amazing loot btw) is fucking stellar.

I don't know, I think these games are almost at the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to exploration. In Morrowind the world feels much more connected, and you're constantly interacting with the game world looking for clues, which are often pretty vague but might point you into the right direction. You might talk to a random NPC that might tell you about a ring that got lost in some cave to the Southwest, or hear a rumor about a sunken city near the coast or a shrine somewhere in the mountains, and you often based your exploration on that kind of stuff. You'd ask the people for directions, sometimes gather clues from books or notes, and use various ways to get around from spells to public transport. In TW3 these kind of interactions are very limited, and although you might occasionally hear a rumour or two, the exploration is mostly of the "wander around the game world hoping to stumble onto something" variety, which is still fun because the world is full of unique places (which couldn't always be said about Morrowind, which relied a bit too heavily on dungeons that started to feel the same after a certain point), but it still feels a bit "gamey" how you just constantly happen to run into all these treasure chests lying in the open, or how you might find an entire settlement where you can't talk to anyone about anything.

The world of TW3 is just beautiful, and it's fun to just walk around in it looking for cool places, but the actual content feels almost like an afterthought at times, like it was tacked on at the last minute to make sure the game world had enough interesting stuff in it. It's kind of hard to describe the open world and exploration of TW3, because on one hand I really, really like the world itself, but mechanically it leaves so much to be desired. It certainly looks like a world that you'd want to explore, but it doesn't always feel like it, with NPCs that seem to be there only as questgivers or decoration, towns with almost nothing to do in them aside from playing Gwent and checking out the notice board, and of course the points of interest which, even without using the map markers, will make their presence know to you whenever you go anywhere near them. Morrowind never had this problem, as every person and location felt like it had its purpose in the game world and could be interacted with in any way you saw fit, whereas in TW3 it often feels like big parts of the world are just fluff, as opposed to the "actual content" like the quests and specifically marked locations.

 

[Ludo Lense]

Yes that is why there is a magical golem creature 100 meters in front of the Nilfgaardian camp and you find the same sword 7 times but at different levels, because that is how open world should be. Witcher 3 is an open world game because that is what sells and CD Projekt was interested in production values first. The gameplay is painfully uninspired.

The "exploration" serves no purposes beyond being there. Your gear is essentially tied to the Witcher armor you want, plants are joke since you are gonna buy them from the herbalist anyway when you get the diagrams because money is a joke. Its cute that you can find short quests here and there but that gets old really quick because a) You know they serve no purpose beyond that small vignette b) rewards are useless (even exp is useless towards the end, I finished the game with 20 something unused skill points).

Inserting ubisoft style maps but with more EMOTION™ does not a good game make.

The Heart of Stone expansion was better in terms of good experience/hour ratio. I have a feeling that Blood&Wine will be vastly superior to the base game due to being 20-30 hours so they can actually focus on good exploration instead of "My son/mom/dad is dead, get useless loot here" note #548679.

So you found out that golem yourself or you followed point of interest map on your map ?

Because this is what is exploration about.
What you describe is instant gratification. You see point on map == there is loot there. If loot is bad thus shitty exploration.

You didn't explore anything. You didn't wander into unknown. You didn't search anything.
You followed map market and arrived without any problem at place without looking at anything else.


Morrowind got prized for its world precisely because people who "explored" it never knew what they can expect on other side of island, or in that march or in that forest. Loot in that game COULD BE SHIT or there wouldn't be any loot at the end but you went somewhere yourself and found out yourself.

This is why exploration these days got so bad to point where we shouldn't even call it exploration.

Which is why i pointed out that POI were mistake. Hell even minimap is mistake to have switched on constantly.

I personally switched them off right off the bat along with minimap and other "consoletard" nessesities and believe me "exploring" as in venturing into unknown finding out new villages, painting map in your head how to get somewhere once you visited it was experience way more interesting and fun than gameplay and story itself ESPECIALLY since world was actually designed in such a way to be manageable without any map. Best sense of "exploration" since Morrowing and imo it beat it completely.

You know how fucking good it feels to find that Circle on Fyke island yourself ? Or that when that goat fucker said that i need to go to Fyke island and i KNEW how to get there and where it is without looking at map ? Not only i knew where and how to get there but i also knew how it was even named. I got name from conversation from few people near that lake just randomly going through villages. Not only did i know its name, where it was and how to get there without looking at map but i also knew its history before main plot and sidequest even started again from few people talking about it in villages i drove through.

That is essence of exploration. Not if PLACE == LOOT: print "GOOD" else print "BAD"

OR how to get from Baron to Novigrad completely on your own ?

Sure there were moments where i had to use map few times (mainly due to poor description of location from npc) but majority of game i did without it and i played it just fine. Skipped ton of "content" due to this but at least it was my own playtrough and i did what i found out instead of browsing wiki before finishing even one play-trough which is essentially what POI are. Once B&W releases i will redo playtrough same way. Only this time i will have almost whole Skellige + new part of novigrad + B&W world to explore + all those little villages i never saw in my play-trough.

Strawman.

I was talking about the quality of the content in relation to exploration. Not content progression.

I don't like mini maps and quest compasses, I also dislike the detective vision since it equals 0 investigation.

But whether I stumble upon that golem while exploring the countryside or by going straight there via POI, it still doesn't change how idiotically close it is to the Nilffgard camp. Whether I find it by accident, at a POI or by finishing a quest, seeing the same sword seven times with different power levels is silly.

Witcher 3 is at its strongest when doing relatively straightforward and linear stories about main and important side characters (not the main quest mind you, it and its endings are low tier fan fiction in terms of quality). Exploration is engaging when you know there could be something exciting over the hills, in Witcher 3 you either have boring loot which you convert into gold for your mountain sized pile or small one shot "dramatic" vignettes.

Actually I lie, there is one other thing you can find, utter disappointment. Perfect example, In the south west of Skellige there is an island that has a boat around it (I don't think there is an even POI for it). On the island there is a strange clearing that leads up a hill. Interesting, clearly designed to catch your attention....but sadly for no purpose since at the top of the hill there is a burial mound made of wood with two chests around it (the chests contain random crappy loot). That's it.

Also your praise of Morrowind is hilarious considering that the designers clearly intended for you to explore via landmarks and hand written notes. Something that Witcher 3 clearly is not made to do. Try to do the pig's gold quest without the compass for example. Its a joke, the quest giver says "There is a cave around here!" without giving any directions. The cave in question is like 100-200 meters to the north east...have fun going around in circles for dat exploration though.

 

[Carrion]

But whether I stumble upon that golem while exploring the countryside or by going straight there via POI, it still doesn't change how idiotically close it is to the Nilffgard camp.

Actually it's not all that idiotic considering that Velen is supposed to be a hostile backwater, the golem is closer to another, abandoned town than the camp (as far as I recall), and it's made clear that monsters frequently cause trouble to even Nilfgaardian troops. The Velen map is a bit too crowded in my opinion, but it does follow a certain logic, even though the "guarded treasures" are kind of dumb as a concept, with a few exceptions. The Novigrad map, on the other hand, has much fewer monster locations, with almost all of them located either quite far away from the city, or at cemetaries or in the sewers or other fitting locations, so while there are some major issues in the way the points of interest are handled, they obviously put some actual thought into their world design, which cannot be said about all developers .

Actually I lie, there is one other thing you can find, utter disappointment. Perfect example, In the south west of Skellige there is an island that has a boat around it (I don't think there is an even POI for it). On the island there is a strange clearing that leads up a hill. Interesting, clearly designed to catch your attention....but sadly for no purpose since at the top of the hill there is a burial mound made of wood with two chests around it (the chests contain random crappy loot). That's it.

I'm not sure if we're thinking about the same location, but I think there is a quest linked to that place in the nearby town. But yeah, finding a loot chest as a reward for your troubles is usually a huge anticlimax.

 

[kwanzabot]

why would you despise open world games


u a retard

 

[Ludo Lense]

But whether I stumble upon that golem while exploring the countryside or by going straight there via POI, it still doesn't change how idiotically close it is to the Nilffgard camp.

Actually it's not all that idiotic considering that Velen is supposed to be a hostile backwater, the golem is closer to another, abandoned town than the camp (as far as I recall), and it's made clear that monsters frequently cause trouble to even Nilfgaardian troops. The Velen map is a bit too crowded in my opinion, but it does follow a certain logic, even though the "guarded treasures" are kind of dumb as a concept, with a few exceptions. The Novigrad map, on the other hand, has much fewer monster locations, with almost all of them located either quite far away from the city, or at cemetaries or in the sewers or other fitting locations, so while there are some major issues in the way the points of interest are handled, they obviously put some actual thought into their world design, which cannot be said about all developers.

Its more about the fact that golems are magical creatures that you found guarding stuff for mages in W1 and W2. In W3 they just said "meh we need cool creatures to guard chests out in the open, lets put golems". Also no army would allow such a threat in close proximity. The ecology created in the game is very hit&miss imho.

 

[Darth Roxor]

here's a suggestion

stop trying to Experience (tm)(c)(r) stuff and just fucking play it

stupid faggots

 

[Aeschylus]

Never said itemization wasn't bad. But itemization and exploration are two different things.
POI based "exploration" is just loot hunt. Not any kind of exploration.

So yeah if you mean by loot hunt TW3 is poor game in this way. But if we talk in Morrowind esque therms (which also didn't have amazing loot btw) is fucking stellar.

Have to disagree with this. What made the open worlds of the best-designed open worlds -- Gothic, Gothic II, Ultima 7 -- great was that there was always something interesting to find in every nook of the world. Loot was hand-placed so it all made sense and was generally quite gratifying to find. The drive to explore was huge because wherever you went you were very likely to find something of genuine interest, something unique, not your 10,000th suit of blue armor.

This isn't to say the world design of TW3 is bad exactly -- it's better than most open world games, but tbh 'most open world games' is an extremely low bar to compare to. The Velen region is probably the 7th or 8th best designed open world I've seen (Gothics and Ultima 4-7 were all better imo), but after that it drops off pretty sharply, particularly in Novigrad (not visually, it's all quite beautiful, just in actual design quality). It's much bigger than it needs to be, and there's honestly very little reason or impetus to go exploring beyond OCD after seeing the map markers. The quests will take you everywhere interesting, and the nature of the loot system devalues exploration.

So yeah, it's not bad, but it's hardly the apex of open world design either.