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Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice

Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
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Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
http://www.hellblade.com/

Outstanding art design.


The Independent AAA proposition
http://www.hellblade.com/?p=16972

For a traditionally AAA developer like Ninja, it may be possible to break the cycle of inevitability of rising budgets, sales-driven design and the wallet-busting price of entry of AAA that limits diversity, innovation and makes IP ownership all but impossible for creators.

With the next generation consoles arriving at one end, just as mobile and indie games have taken hold at the other, perhaps there is room for a third way, to turn the “middle”, where many a good studio has disappeared, into an opportunity to redefine gaming: the Independent AAA game.

What is the Independent AAA game? It is about creating, funding and owning IP of AAA quality but with the more focused game design, lower price point and open development process that defines indie games. It’s about taking creative risks and making spectacular, exciting and unique game experiences that can compete with AAA and engages fans directly.

This talk is a candid reveal of the realities of making games in the AAA space and will be of interest to indies who are dreaming big, AAA devs who are dreaming of independence and the middle-tier who find themselves at a crossroads.

There is a space I want us to fill. Common wisdom says that this space doesn’t exist. I’m calling this space Independent AAA.

It’s about self-publishing AAA-quality games that are narrower in focus, selling them for a fair price and connecting to your fans in a meaningful way. It’s a place for developers like us who don’t fit comfortably in the mega-budget AAA space but who are not true indie developers.

I believe that we need this space to be filled if we want the future of gaming, particularly on consoles, to be diverse and creative for both developers and gamers. I will be speaking from a console developers’ perspective because that it is where our history and heritage lies.

More power to them.

And down with the cheapo-mobile Untermenschen.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Who cares if their aaa or indie or indie aaa. Guys made shit games, I saw the video was intrigued and then the video said "from the same hobos who did Enslaved and DMC" like thats something you can be proud of. I dont know about heavenly sword but I would not try it after playing the mentioned two games.
 

Martius

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
1,058
Maybe this time they will actually get to level of movies and literature (probably not but watching them trying that can be funny).
 

Machocruz

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Hyperborea
Doesn't matter what they call themselves if they are going to keep making piss-easy games for scrubs.
 

Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
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Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar


Pretty compelling stuff. Hopefully the game design also holds up to their gorgeous world & art-design. Last thing I need is another narrow-spaced button masher. But then again this is Ninja Theory we're talking about.... only this time unshackled from inane publisher demands, so perhaps there's something good coming out.
 

Martius

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
1,058
At least she is not redhead. I doubt they will surprise this time with gameplay, it will probably again some wannabe God of War clone.
 

Garryydde

Arcane
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Douchebag! Repressed Homosexual
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A game from the creators of Enslaved: Odyssey to the Motion Sickness and DmC:DMC? No thanks.
 

Baron Dupek

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Jul 23, 2013
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iPI5xPkD6hjoZ.gif


Actually it was better than Duke Nukem Forever.
Yes, I got once console, only to experience two much worse things - FPS on pad and GTA4.
 

fizzelopeguss

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
811
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Equality Street.
Dmc was fine, about as worthy an action game you'll get out of a western developer. The lunacy and autistic attention to timing and cinematic spectacle in combat has really only ever come from the japs.
 

Martius

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
1,058
I wonder how decent will be pc version since it will be their first project on this platform. From what I heard DmC port was good but Capcom outsourced that to another company. No idea about Enslaved, probably it was similar.
 

Baron Dupek

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Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,765

  • No plans for DLC's. Intends Hellblade to be designed as a self-contained experience. However, it is not set in stone and will look at it through a case-by-case basis depending on the community's feedback.
  • Combat is redesigned to be skill-based. Takes cues from titles like SF where mechanics' depth are explored and understood rather than a standard progression system.
  • No QTE's (FUCK YES!)
  • Budget is not challenging - Tameem expresses how "liberating" it is to think outside-the-box with more riskier strategies.
  • Performance-capture critical to Hellblade. Challenge comes from integrating it with the limited budget.
  • A gameplay demo footage to be released on Spring next year (Video uploaded on Dec 8, 2014) with snippets leading up to it. Russian localization supported.
  • Takes inspiration from Django (old film) emphasizing how filthy and muddy the opening scene was, placing focus on the "dirt and grit" as opposed to the AAA explosions for graphics.
  • Disappointed with the way the AAA in going, preferring smaller and more personal without trying to make a "product meeting sales projections and shareholders".
  • No RPG elements. No skill trees/loot/armour customizations; focusing on the the purity of the mechanics/combat system to make it as skill-based as possible. Immersion is the target of the overall experience. Tameem wants to see what happens when such features are stripped out of the game - energy bars, HUD's, inventories and possibly tutorials are part of the experiment. Player discoverability is a key factor to the game, understands the risk of going with such approach.
  • Noted that other games uses such RPG features as a "crutch"; sees a fundamental flaw with such progressive systems (about fucking time someone says this).
  • Not working on licensed NT partnership (Heavenly Sword, DmC, Enslaved) currently.
  • Working on merchandise. An online-store is in the works - T-shirts being the main product. Co-ordinating with artists for what type of design they will showcase from community feedback. Points out February to open the store and will emphasize on "quality" to match up with the game philosophy.
 
Joined
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-No RPG elements. No skill trees/loot/armour customizations; focusing on the the purity of the mechanics/combat system to make it as skill-based as possible. Immersion is the target of the overall experience. Tameem wants to see what happens when such features are stripped out of the game - energy bars, HUD's, inventories and possibly tutorials are part of the experiment. Player discoverability is a key factor to the game, understands the risk of going with such approach.

-Noted that other games uses such RPG features as a "crutch"; sees a fundamental flaw with such progressive systems (about fucking time someone says this).

"Player discoverability", "immersion", "used as a crutch", "purity of experience"...cut the buzzwords TamTam.

Progression systems or RPG-like mechanics get a bad rap in action games.

While most action games tend to implement them in a kludgy manner (especially more recent ones), progression elements can add a whole lot to the gameplay experience, adding a strategic layer to runs, creating more mechanisms to reward the player for solid play, or dogged exploration of the gameworld.

Look at games like the first Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden Black, and God of War (2). In each game, progression elements were a net positive in the experience; the games were designed around them from the outset, rather than being tacked on.

Devil May Cry 1 did an excellent job with the way Red Orbs were handled. Not only were they hidden in the gameworld, but were awarded in greater numbers upon killing enemies while carrying a high Style Meter ranking (or vanquishing foes via Critical Hits; special kill conditions of certain foes), and for completing Missions with a high ranking. With the way that costs were balanced, a player doing a fresh run (on any difficulty) would find Red Orbs valuable for the majority of the run, would face choices on what moves/upgrades to purchase, and would strive for higher rankings as S-ranks and Special Bonuses (a "perfect" S-Rank, roughly equivalent to a DMC3 SS rank) for the plentiful amount of orbs bequeathed. This resource acquisition and management game could add a bit of strategic depth to a playthrough and was by no means

Sure, later games completely dropped the ball in this respect (from DMC2 onwards to Platinum's games, save Revengeance), balancing upgrade costs around people grinding via Mission/Chapter Select (a feature not in DMC1) or progressing through 3+ difficulties with the same character file, but DMC1 shows that the model can be executed well.

God of War would lose much with zero progression elements as well. Like Devil May Cry, it rewards the player with more upgrade currency, in this case Blood, for defeating enemies in certain manners (particularly in how killing enemies in certain ways will reward the player with either health/magic or blood offering a choice of either short-term resources or upgrade currency). And like Devil May Cry 1, it's also balanced around the single playthrough. Different from Devil May Cry is the focus on hidden secrets, particularly Gorgon Eyes/Phoenix Feathers and even entire weapons/spells/costumes squirreled away in the gameworld. Cutting progression elements would make it difficult to incentivize gameworld exploration in the same way, and at the least make it a lot less compelling to the average player. Finding secrets is fun, and doubly so when they help to promote the player character's combat effectiveness.

And while Ninja Gaiden Black wasn't particularly well balanced for the average playthrough (farming was too easy), progression elements play extremely well in Score/Speed Runs. When playing for Karma, the 100K bonus for going under (strict) par times is worth far more in points than anything gained from farming (while encounters respawn in some locales, they are only scored once). And speed runs, almost by definition, preclude farming tactics. This means the player is working with a limited amount of Essence at any time, and is forced to budget it on weapon upgrades, armlets, and items (mostly Smoke Bombs, Arrows, and Devil Elixirs). It adds a strategic element to the run, making for more interesting, deeper gameplay.

So, no, these elements aren't worthless in action games, not vestigial pieces of design, and certainly not a crutch. They're a legitimate design choice, one that has been done well in previous games and could be done better in the future. Cutting them out sounds like a Bethesda-style lobotomy. "Well, dialogue skills weren't popular and neither were Spears, Crossbows, and Spellmaking...so let's just cut it all out. Don't worry, our games will be even more IMMERSIVE!"

As for some other sticking points...

Healing items (from menu/inventory) are similarly the victim of unfair derision. As with lower difficulties, they're an essential scaffolding element that allows the sub-genre to consistently tune their enemies towards more competent/skilled players rather than towards a lowest common denominator. While other genres flounder or are dumbed down to appeal to some vacuous notion of the "casual gamer", these games have kept up the pace for almost a decade and a half, mostly avoiding the decline.

I assume even Tameem wouldn't be silly enough to suggest removing any sort of inventories, things that have been in beat em' ups and action platformers since the beginning; games like the original Ninja Gaiden Trilogy, Shinobi, Final Fight, Contra, Metal Slug, and so on.

UI minimalism is foolhardy as well. Indicators occupy screen real estate in most games because they are the best way of transmitting crucial information to the player in a timely manner and they help to support more complex game mechanics.

El Shaddai was a game that (at least on the first playthrough) offered no health bar, no super meter, or no indicator of weapon degradation via abstract UI elements, instead attempting to convey this information through the character's body. As he took more damage, his (oddly shaped) armor fell apart leaving him in nothing but some designer jeans when on death's door. When super meter was charged enough to power up your attacks with the flames of Archangel Uriel, a glow would engulf the character. And weapons stolen from enemies would gradually darken as you used them, becoming less effective the more impure they became.

It was also extremely simplistic, with only one attack button and strings based mostly on timed presses (think DMC-style timing combos, but longer and the majority of the main character's arsenal) with only block+attack and jump+attack inputs otherwise. Meter only fed into one utility (Uriel's assistance to power up attacks) and weapon degradation hardly mattered, because G-Ranks encouraged constant capture of enemy weapons, making purity management mostly unnecessary.

That said, the UI was still sorely missed. Gauging how much damage attacks dealt to the player character was difficult, to say nothing of figuring out how much damage enemies were taking from the attacks of the user. That's essential feedback the player was denied; figuring out which attacks were better or which enemy techniques were most worrisome was extremely difficult based solely on animations and graphical changes to character models. Super meter was similarly tricky to measure; it was hard to see what built it up effectively and when to turn it off to conserve it. I can't imagine trying to deal with a more multi-faceted meter like DMC1-4 Devil Trigger much less Bayonetta's magic gauge which feeds into numerous things (often all at once). Complex mechanics require detailed feedback, and minalistic UI design is not at all suited to this.

Jeez, Tameem comes off as such a hack.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,765
Gameplay Trailer
Hellblade will be released for PlayStation 4 in 2016 and tells the story of Celtic Warrior Senua and her journey into Hell. The Hell in question is no ordinary Hell, but is in fact a Hell that is the manifestation of Senua's mental illness. Senua experiences psychosis, including hallucinations and delusions, as well as suffering from anxiety and depression. As a player you will witness Senua's living nightmare through her own eyes


YT comments deliver
Indie GOTY.
Casual+console, no shock here.

 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
7,940
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Gameplay Trailer
Hellblade will be released for PlayStation 4 in 2016 and tells the story of Celtic Warrior Senua and her journey into Hell. The Hell in question is no ordinary Hell, but is in fact a Hell that is the manifestation of Senua's mental illness. Senua experiences psychosis, including hallucinations and delusions, as well as suffering from anxiety and depression. As a player you will witness Senua's living nightmare through her own eyes


That actually sounds pretty cool.
So its probably going to be terrible
 

vortex

Fabulous Optimist
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
4,221
Location
Temple of Alvilmelkedic
Trully amazing what they did with UE4. Capturing character real time using the new mocap tech. I think it has never been done before in real time before, right?
If it'll be action packed as DMC and with compelling story, it will be an awesome ride.
 

The Decline

Arcane
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
7,250
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Everywhere
If it's anything like their previous games it'll be shit.
 

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