Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Absolutely. Now, at least, you have to tech up to '46 or even later tech, so that your 4xTAC group will kill retreating divisions.

Even with Black ICE's Jet Bombers it's an uphill struggle to ever actually wipe out a non-Stone Age division when it's retreating, since individual air defense capabilities also improve with the years and the base damage is nowhere as high as in HoI2. Then again, the additional AT/AA techs in BI do a lot to improve divisional air defense capability.

I see Ground Attack as more of a harassing measure to keep draining manpower and tie up IC while making it harder to counter-attack fast. Still, not the highest priority in my warmachine construction queue, Tac Bombers and Close Air Support come to play only after there's enough air superiority and paratroopers (and minor countries might skip entirely due to resources being needed elsewhere).

 

[Average Manatee]

Absolutely. Now, at least, you have to tech up to '46 or even later tech, so that your 4xTAC group will kill retreating divisions.

Even with Black ICE's Jet Bombers it's an uphill struggle to ever actually wipe out a non-Stone Age division when it's retreating, since individual air defense capabilities also improve with the years and the base damage is nowhere as high as in HoI2. Then again, the additional AT/AA techs in BI do a lot to improve divisional air defense capability.

Black ICE is a unbalanced piece of shit for the gutters. Among the other things it fucks up it makes bombers useless. lol 4 TACs on a bombing run against infantry get 2 kills. TACs are perfectly fine in vanilla.

 

[Malakal]

There was a lot of shit going on in the interwar years that would have made any such pre-emptive war unthinkable, let alone the fact that everyone in the Entente had enough killing for a while.

Poland offered France to strike preemptively against Germany both in 1933 and in 1936 after the remilitarization of Rheinland. In 1933 there was no will and in 1936 there was no government in France due to apolitical crisis at the time. So the idea of Polish preemptive war isnt far fetched one buy I have to agree that western powers werent willing to try that.

 

[Sranchammer]

There was a lot of shit going on in the interwar years that would have made any such pre-emptive war unthinkable, let alone the fact that everyone in the Entente had enough killing for a while.

Poland offered France to strike preemptively against Germany both in 1933 and in 1936 after the remilitarization of Rheinland. In 1933 there was no will and in 1936 there was no government in France due to apolitical crisis at the time. So the idea of Polish preemptive war isnt far fetched one buy I have to agree that western powers werent willing to try that.

For such a peaceful nation, Poland was quite the antagonizing bitch.

 

[Malakal]

There was a lot of shit going on in the interwar years that would have made any such pre-emptive war unthinkable, let alone the fact that everyone in the Entente had enough killing for a while.

Poland offered France to strike preemptively against Germany both in 1933 and in 1936 after the remilitarization of Rheinland. In 1933 there was no will and in 1936 there was no government in France due to apolitical crisis at the time. So the idea of Polish preemptive war isnt far fetched one buy I have to agree that western powers werent willing to try that.

For such a peaceful nation, Poland was quite the antagonizing bitch.

Peaceful doesnt mean retarded. Anyone with half a brain could see where Germany was heading. Besides regaining independence really does influence your foreign policies and need for security.

 

[Sranchammer]

There was a lot of shit going on in the interwar years that would have made any such pre-emptive war unthinkable, let alone the fact that everyone in the Entente had enough killing for a while.

Poland offered France to strike preemptively against Germany both in 1933 and in 1936 after the remilitarization of Rheinland. In 1933 there was no will and in 1936 there was no government in France due to apolitical crisis at the time. So the idea of Polish preemptive war isnt far fetched one buy I have to agree that western powers werent willing to try that.

For such a peaceful nation, Poland was quite the antagonizing bitch.

Peaceful doesnt mean retarded. Anyone with half a brain could see where Germany was heading. Besides regaining independence really does influence your foreign policies and need for security.

Perhaps attacking the Soviets for Polish lebensraum was an error.

 

[Malakal]

There was a lot of shit going on in the interwar years that would have made any such pre-emptive war unthinkable, let alone the fact that everyone in the Entente had enough killing for a while.

Poland offered France to strike preemptively against Germany both in 1933 and in 1936 after the remilitarization of Rheinland. In 1933 there was no will and in 1936 there was no government in France due to apolitical crisis at the time. So the idea of Polish preemptive war isnt far fetched one buy I have to agree that western powers werent willing to try that.

For such a peaceful nation, Poland was quite the antagonizing bitch.

Peaceful doesnt mean retarded. Anyone with half a brain could see where Germany was heading. Besides regaining independence really does influence your foreign policies and need for security.

Perhaps attacking the Soviets for Polish lebensraum was an error.

Dont be stupid please. It was way more complicated before Stalin did his ethnic magic in those areas, kind of like Yugoslavia, cant really tell what nation belonged where. Some didnt even exist then like White Russians.

 

[Sranchammer]

Are you denying that Poland did not instigate war against Soviet Russia, Mal? This is serious and may impact our relations in EUIV

 

[Malakal]

Are you denying that Poland did not instigate war against Soviet Russia, Mal? This is serious and may impact our relations in EUIV

On 27 march 1917 Petrograd Soviet (same that enacted the great soviet decrees on peace and land) accepted Polish independence. Then they tried to go back on this when Poland tried to regain its pre partitions borders. I think the aggressor here is the nation that dismantled another.

 

[Sranchammer]

Are you denying that Poland did not instigate war against Soviet Russia, Mal? This is serious and may impact our relations in EUIV

On 27 march 1917 Petrograd Soviet (same that enacted the great soviet decrees on peace and land) accepted Polish independence. Then they tried to go back on this when Poland tried to regain its pre partitions borders. I think the aggressor here is the nation that dismantled another.

Guaranteed limited independence by the Whites or blindly trust Lenin with gifts of gold and myrr. I can't find myself taking pity on Poland not taking a decision that everyone begged them to take.

 

[Malakal]

Guaranteed limited independence by the Whites or blindly trust Lenin with gifts of gold and myrr. I can't find myself taking pity on Poland not taking a decision that everyone begged them to take.

I dont really want to continue this discussion here since its offtopic but from what I learned about the situation Polish government didnt trust either side. They picked supporting reds (as in not crushing them with whites at the apex of white power in the civil war) because they were weaker - had no international support. Reborn Russia would be the obvious choice of an ally for France and UK, Poland couldnt compete with that. Soviet Union on the other hand was hostile to all western powers so France had to look for a substitute ally. At the time this choice made a lot of sense.

 

[Sranchammer]

I would be open to starting a RCW thread to attract other potato and bradylama-type posters. I'll be doing a RuS LP soon anyways

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Guaranteed limited independence by the Whites or blindly trust Lenin with gifts of gold and myrr. I can't find myself taking pity on Poland not taking a decision that everyone begged them to take.

Reborn Russia would be the obvious choice of an ally for France and UK, Poland couldnt compete with that.

I doubt it. Russia was seen as the most over hyped nation after the blunder of WW1. The Russian steamroller turned out to be a legend, at the great despair of the allies.

However your point stand, they must have believed Red Russia would be much more of a mess than white russia.

 

[Sranchammer]

No one came closer to achieving Total Victory than Russia in Summer 1916.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

But they were mostly fighting Austria Hungary, The German's military strength being focused on what they considered a bigger problem, the western front. Austria themselves had to fight on multiple front, mostly the Italian and Serbian one, with the Serbian offensive having completely blundered.

Large offensives were also easier on the eastern front, due to this war front being much wider, and the enemies less entrenched in their positions.

Though, I agree the Austro-Hungarian empire tend to be underestimated in its military capability.

 

[GarfunkeL]

No one came closer to achieving Total Victory than Russia in Summer 1916.

Are you kidding me? :D

Next, you'll claim that Romania and Italia were the important countries of WW1.

The various White generals were politically as stupid as a rabid dog. They could have promised both Poland and Finland that they can remain independent and that the borders will be settled through negotiations after Bolsheviks were defeated. In 1919, Finland had a battle hardened, ready army that could have marched to St.Petersburg and ejected the weak Bolsheviks, while Poland could have (as they later did) march into Ukraine/Belarus and drive the Reds back to Moscow - at which point the Whites would have been on the top, quite strongly.

But no, instead they bickered amongst each other and made imperial announcements that the Russian Empire will be reborn and both Finland & Poland will be subjugated. Short-sighted idiots.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Back to the game now, I think I'm gonna keep playing darkest hour than HOI3 since there's no point to it and I can spend time on wargames instead of that.

As to HOI4, well, I will give you that Paradox poured more into EU4 than previous titles and stands somewhat well on it's own without expansions. None of the previous Pdox managed to do that, some weren't even able to after the expansions. Crusader Kings 2 is a good example. And HOI3 is the rule.

Nevertheless, the National Ideas gimmick could work if it was combined with nation and ideology, ie different ideas for a commie germany and a natsoc one. The ideas don't matter much to me as long as they are moddable(it's a paradox game) since I can mod them. I rarely play a PI title without modding it after my first game. As for Alt History mods, someone once said that they are hard to find because of 100000000 provinces to go through. That's wrong, they have been made, there are tools that make the job much easier developed by the community but no one plays them or finishes work on them because, fuck. it is HOI and there's only war and the composition of divisions. Darkest Hour was a stack grind but at least it was a platform for alt history mods and event chains. None of that with HOI3's crippling system.

As for the other stuff, well, gonna wait for updates. I just hope that it doesn't take another 4 expansions to be playable or having to look for combat values inside the files because they fucked them up, won't update them for months and you have medium armor hordes defeating mountain divisions in the carpathian mountains. (yes, vanilla hoi 3 still haunts me)

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

HoI3 can handle more complex event chains and effects than Darkest Hour you know. And its war mechanics are vastly superior. And thanks to things like policies and various other elements it's also possible to have a more indepth economical system modded in.

The reason Darkest Hour has those alt history mods is simple: Those mods were already there for HoI2: Doomsday+Armageddon years ago.

 

[Average Manatee]

I've read that there are plenty of things that HoI3 simply can't do. IIRC tag switching and flag switching are among them.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Flag switching is definately among them, probably not tag switching either (unsure, would have to investimagate the FDR and DDR events behaviour).

 

[GarfunkeL]

Tag switching is impossible through an event, unfortunately. Thus it's impossible to start game as SPR and then automatically switch to SPA when SCW starts. But, you can do it yourself through the console, "tag SPA", or through save-game editing.

 

[Average Manatee]

Hearts of iron 4 preview from our favourite youtube personality.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Someone watch this and tell me if anything interesting

 

[Onyxme]

HoI3 can handle more complex event chains and effects than Darkest Hour you know. And its war mechanics are vastly superior. And thanks to things like policies and various other elements it's also possible to have a more indepth economical system modded in.

The reason Darkest Hour has those alt history mods is simple: Those mods were already there for HoI2: Doomsday+Armageddon years ago.

Really? Because even with the HPP mod - which is supposed to make it more like HOI2 - the game still feels staler than an old lump of bread when it comes to events.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

HoI3 can handle more complex event chains and effects than Darkest Hour you know. And its war mechanics are vastly superior. And thanks to things like policies and various other elements it's also possible to have a more indepth economical system modded in.

The reason Darkest Hour has those alt history mods is simple: Those mods were already there for HoI2: Doomsday+Armageddon years ago.

Not so. When I tried to mod some of that most triggers simply wouldn't be set off and I had some other complications with it and the whole event system. Eventually I gave up.

There's a lot that's wonky about modding HOI3. The modding tools that are out for it aren't a great help either.
Hopefully that doesn't get overlooked in hoi4.

Spoiler

At least we are getting a new wargamey grand strat instead of Vapor VS Ware

 

[Destroid]

Hearts of iron 4 preview from our favourite youtube personality.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Someone watch this and tell me if anything interesting

Not much exciting in the video. HoI4 stuff starts at 19:55.