Incline Guilty Gear Thread - Xrd SIGN released on Steam

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Looks great.

Now just give me CapcomVsSNK 3 and I can die a happy man.

Given the track record between the two companies, you may wanna hope it'll be SNKvsCapcom.

 

[tuluse]

But then in high level play stuff like that gets massively exploited. Like for example in ST you throw just by hitting a button + a direction. The throw attempt happens on the first frame after the input; if the throw attempt fails the normal for the button you pressed comes out. This leads to shit like being able to attempt a throw in one frame and then kara cancel the throw-whiff normal into an invincible dragon punch, meaning for the defending player if you block you get thrown, if you do anything with less invincibility you get DP'd, and you have only one frame of gameplay to try to make anything else happen.

Are you talking about option selects here? Because that stuff is actually designed into the games these days, it's not an exploit.


Anyways trying to evaluate decline of fighting games is tough. SF4 is declined in many ways from SF3, but it's still a very good game, and it's much easier for people who are above the "mash buttons and see what happens", but below actually being good to figure things out and get better at. MK9 is easily the best MK game. I haven't played most of the other Japanese fighting games enough, and I hate Marvel, so I can't really comment on them.

 

[tuluse]

Actually it's more like that fighting games already had the period of decline when Namco's games were the biggest around, with the peak decline being marked by the commercial flop of Street Fighter 3. Back in those dark days you only had Guilty Gear and KoF to look to (and KoF was really slipping in production values until XI, what with SNK's bankcruptcy and all that). Nowadays, fake 3D (the only real 3D fighting game I know of is One Must Fall: Battlegrounds, a sadly utterly unfinished game) is on a backburner and 2D is back in force.

Dead or Alive, Soul Caliber, and Tekken don't count?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Actually it's more like that fighting games already had the period of decline when Namco's games were the biggest around, with the peak decline being marked by the commercial flop of Street Fighter 3. Back in those dark days you only had Guilty Gear and KoF to look to (and KoF was really slipping in production values until XI, what with SNK's bankcruptcy and all that). Nowadays, fake 3D (the only real 3D fighting game I know of is One Must Fall: Battlegrounds, a sadly utterly unfinished game) is on a backburner and 2D is back in force.

Dead or Alive, Soul Caliber, and Tekken don't count?

All have been delightfully shitty. It's like they're trying to highlight how bankcrupt they are in every possible category beyond CGI budget.

 

[Gozma]

tuluse You should have listed Virtua Fighter, because it's the exception all anti-3D weeaboo jihadi won't insult, since no one in the West plays it and they can grind training and story modes indefinitely without anyone upsetting their fighting game self-image by beating them

Are you talking about option selects here? Because that stuff is actually designed into the games these days, it's not an exploit.

I wasn't really using exploit in the gamer sense. But the boundary between "designed in" and "emergent" is pretty vague in fighting games. Tons of fiddly little things create mechanics that can be used to make, among other things, option selects, and tons of things that started as game-sense exploits have been reiterated in later games because they turned out interesting.

Anyways trying to evaluate decline of fighting games is tough. SF4 is declined in many ways from SF3, but it's still a very good game, and it's much easier for people who are above the "mash buttons and see what happens", but below actually being good to figure things out and get better at. MK9 is easily the best MK game. I haven't played most of the other Japanese fighting games enough, and I hate Marvel, so I can't really comment on them.

I honestly think 99.99% of "X fighting game is badd!" stuff is retarded. The skill caps are so high even on ancient shit with no options and horrendous matchups like ST, and the games are so adversarial and escalating that you can spend a couple of years with one game as your main hobby and still never really "see" all of it, even with one character. So all that really matters in the end is social shit like what game has competition and what you find inarticulately fun. It is indeed pretty fucked up that a fighting game is more like an institution than a one-off single player game that you can circumscribe in a review but it's the case.

 

[St. Toxic]

All have been delightfully shitty. It's like they're trying to highlight how bankcrupt they are in every possible category beyond CGI budget.

 

[wergle]

Guilty Gear is fun because it's so fast and batshit crazy that even people who are really really good at the game still suck at it, which makes it entertaining

 

[Gozma]

What all is missing from #Reload (the version on GoG) vs. the ^ Core games? And does the GGPO patch for it I saw on Dustloop actually work?

 

[wergle]

What all is missing from #Reload (the version on GoG) vs. the ^ Core games? And does the GGPO patch for it I saw on Dustloop actually work?

They have generally better balance, new pseudosuper moves called force breaks, a few new characters and an infinitely shittier announcer voice. Never used GGPO though so no idea

 

[Gozma]

I wonder how many months it takes for an old hamburger hands to develop a perfect GG instant air dash motion. It's close to an inverted dragon punch (6~6+8~N~6 vs 6~N~2~2+6) but pushing the stick upward in a real in-control, not-gate-riding-way is not something you develop playing anything but air-dashy-but-no-button-dashing games.

 

[wergle]

956

 

[Gozma]

Diagonals are not real directions, they're just compound directional inputs. There are only 4 buttons inside the joystick. You can mash both of the up/8 and 6 inputs in the same frame to get a "true 9" but I don't think a human can do it consistently (edit: without monkey slamming the stick into the gate anyway), thus the inverse DP-like motion. It's (probably) possible to "kara cancel" an up jump in the 1-2 prejump frames into an up forward if you hit the 8 before the 6, but it's not gonna be any more consistent a motion than the 6~6+8 path.

 

[wergle]

I'm bad at fighting games

 

[Gozma]

Probably 95% of seriously good fighting game players would have no idea what I was talking about there and just do everything by feel and (well, Americans anyway). It's like breaking down a tennis swing into biomechanical graphs or something, if there's nothing wrong with your swing it's a waste of time.

 

[Gozma]

If anyone else ever tries to learn this shit, here's a thing I never saw exactly explained in English on a GG XX (whatever version) fanpage

If you use a jump-cancellable normal, you can hit up immediately after starting the animation and a jump command option select is then created where, if the attack hits or is blocked, after the hitstop ends you will immediately cancel into a jump on the earliest cancellable frame. If no hit or block, no jump. You can even do stuff like buffer an unrelated motion after hitting the up and you will still jump. This makes a lot of shit immensely easier once you understand it. Like for example on a Dustloop wiki for Jam, someone wrote the combo to do a f.S cancelled into an air qcf+k (this combo happens several times a match in high level Jap Jam videos) as f.S 2369K (i.e. they are saying to tiger knee the qcf+k). That makes the combo incredibly unreliable because you have to hit both the jump cancel window using a tiger knee and then the kick window just so, and missing the combo and getting a ground qcf+k will lead to a big punish. Instead you can do f.S and immediately input an up, then buffer in a qcf during the fairly long hitstop, then the kick after the automatic jump cancel. GG XX has a very long special motion input buffer, so it's pretty leisurely. The only input that needs any timing is the k - it becomes very practical.

This kind of thing has a ton of other applications (namely anti-air normal option selects for juggles and air throw attempts, and easier perfect IAD cancels out of jump cancellable normals) but no one really says it in the "introduction to GG systems" type English fan stuff.

 

[wergle]

I'll just leave this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaEqPADscLA

 

[Gozma]

The word is that they maintained the basic feel of XX completely. They did take out FRCs and slashbacks (for now anyway), so they seem to be looking to roll back the high execution gimmicks.

I still predict it will not be available outside of East Asian arcades for ages

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The word is that they maintained the basic feel of XX completely. They did take out FRCs and slashbacks (for now anyway), so they seem to be looking to roll back the high execution gimmicks.

I still predict it will not be available outside of East Asian arcades for ages

Around 1-2 years is usually what it takes for console ports of ArcSys fighting games to get released in US and EU. A lot depends on how much more work they're putting into the console version. Chrono Phantasma was released in Nippon arcades last year's November, the console version is being released this October in Japan, EU/US release is in next March (as an example of the process to expect).

 

[Coriolanus]

I only hope they'll bring back the delicious cheesy metal goodness.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Almost certain to be that, there's NO WAY ArcSys isn't having Ishiwatari do the soundtrack again. A bigger question is if his hyper-activity can be limited there (since the guy has handled art design, game design AND sound design at ArcSys), since he also works on BlazBlue team as the sound and art designer, but he did design and make the soundtrack for Hard Corps while on BlazBlue team. Besides, GG is his creation so it's very likely he's involved at least for the music.

Incidentally, his soundtrack for Hard Corps was great stuff (and he's done great ones for BlazBlue too, but we've got a separate topic for that stuff):



Ishiwatari version of the Contra theme, though the best one was the standard boss theme:

 

[Gozma]

The new designs for Potemkin and Millia look pretty 2010 anime so they might actually not be sticking with a mid '90s cheesy aesthetic overall. But then May and Chipp look almost the same aside from some small face tweaks so whatever

 

[Coriolanus]

They did take out FRCs and slashbacks (for now anyway), so they seem to be looking to roll back the high execution gimmicks.

Heh, so it's finally playable by filthy casuals like me without an arcade stick without feeling like I'm missing half of the game. RCs on a gamepad are hard enough...

 

[Coriolanus]

Might as well ask here... is it even humanly possible to do a Grand Viper Clean Hit on a gamepad?

 

[Valestein]

Axl low and I-no confirmed and the game will be available on both PS3 and PS4.

 

[Gerrard]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK it looks so good.

Also, the first trailer broke 1 million views.