Group-based MMORPG: Saga of Lucimia

[belowmecoldhands]

Ok so this morning I entered the forums and clicked on "looking for new mmo" and started to wonder what kind of MMORPGs are out there with roles or groups still being at center stage? Long story short, I got tired and entered "group based MMORPG" in google. The results are below.

What's Saga of Lucimia? After perusing their site (https://sagaoflucimia.com), I get these things:

• high fantasy MMORPG
  
• it calls itself a "challenge-based game focused on group content."
  
• group-based 8-man party system
• soloing is restricted to some skills and crafting--uses language like "you won't find it."
  
• raids are up to 32 players
• set to release in Dec 2017 or 2018
• allows you to pay--right now--to gain access to the alpha server
• its story is based on a "four-book series drafted by T.W. Anderson in 2008."
• uses a classless skill-based levelling system but still allows new players to select a class at char selection
• there will be no pvp
• housing is planned
• no mini-map in hte GUI
  
• it's trying to be sandbox-like, so there'll be no quest hubs, although there'll still be quests
• it will be a subscription-based payment model--monthly fee is 100% of the game
  
• they're making their game for people who play hours per session: 15-20 hours per week
• none of the design team have made an MMORPG before--to counter htey point to their alpha build

Some videos:






Pantheon look out! If this one survives, it'll be competing with you. But somehow I doubt it'll get anywhere. The team has no experience. An alpha build doesn't mean anything yet. Release is still years away.

EDIT: Want to make a distinction between group-based MMORPGs and the standard MMORPGs which're out there. Standard MMORPGs DO have groups and high end content for groups and raids. The main difference between them and group-based MMORPGs seems to be they allow players to solo up to maximum level or at least to the high level range.

A strictly group-based MMORPG isn't necessarily something to be proud of, since soloing is probalby favored by 60% to 70% or more of the audience and this will kill interest in SoL and pollute its forums, but I like to see someone try this!

How will they deal with low population at night or when the game loses relevance (and population)? They've got a mountain of challanges ahead even without this one, but damn they have my attention.

 

[Bester]

A strictly group-based MMORPG isn't necessarily something to be proud of, since soloing is probalby favored by 60% to 70% or more of the audience and this will kill interest in SoL and pollute its forums, but I like to see someone try this!

I don't agree. It's not a new concept, a lot of MUDs required you to be in a serious group to access high level content. It promotes communication, leads to friendships and then to healthy communities.
Sometimes people you play with are offline and you are forced to try leveling with people you don't know - suddenly you're meeting new people, etc.
Often you couldn't find a group at night, but then you had other stuff you could do.

This concept is good. Certainly superior to what wow clones have to offer.

Unfortunately, "no pvp" means I'm not interested.

Then I watched a few minutes of the first video.
- All they did was a login screen and some extremely basic multiplayer. The entire prototype is something anyone could put together in ~ 2 weeks.
- Bad level design: the level is sufficiently big, but feels smaller and restricted, because they did what any inexperienced level designer does - they put mountains around their level.
- No movement interpolation/prediction. This means that when they made the prototype, they didn't know/care how to do it right. This tells me they're inexperienced and incompetent. They can't make an MMO. When the time comes to make streaming world with 1 server per area with seamless transitions, this is where they'll probably stop development altogether.

This game will never get done, so whatever.

Also their plans for a subscription based game are laughable. They have no idea what they're doing in so many things.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

I don't agree. It's not a new concept, a lot of MUDs required you to be in a serious group to access high level content. It promotes communication, leads to friendships and then to healthy communities.
Sometimes people you play with are offline and you are forced to try leveling with people you don't know - suddenly you're meeting new people, etc.
Often you couldn't find a group at night, but then you had other stuff you could do.

This concept is good. Certainly superior to what wow clones have to offer.

Unfortunately, "no pvp" means I'm not interested.

Then I watched a few minutes of the first video.
- All they did was a login screen and some extremely basic multiplayer. The entire prototype is something anyone could put together in ~ 2 weeks.
- Bad level design: the level is sufficiently big, but feels smaller and restricted, because they did what any inexperienced level designer does - they put mountains around their level.
- No movement interpolation/prediction. This means that when they made the prototype, they didn't know/care how to do it right. This tells me they're inexperienced and incompetent. They can't make an MMO. When the time comes to make streaming world with 1 server per area with seamless transitions, this is where they'll probably stop development altogether.

This game will never get done, so whatever.

Also their plans for a subscription based game are laughable. They have no idea what they're doing in so many things.

(bolded what I am responding to)

Don't confuse my skepticism with condemnation. Note I said I like to see someone try this! I play Everquest for many years and grouping was a big part of the game. On the other hand, I've had the opportunity to witness the scourge of soloers. I was a soloer myself on many days. Soloing capacity is obviously a massive draw for players. If you cut it from your game, you probably will have a smaller audience to feed your fan base. That's fine! I have nothing against that because I currently play niche games. However, I anticipate forum wars over this matter. I also anticipate people who work on the financial aspects of the project to be tempted to introduce more solo-friendly content. Because when a project starts to be real and gets out in the world, finances take a higher priority than passions or creeds. I think this is especially true for people who struggle financially.

Again don't mistake my skepticsm for condemnation or scorn or dislike!!!! I LOVE your feedback. I actually am very happy to find out about this--admittedly early and unimpressive--MMORPG. I'll give you some insight on my thoughts:
http://www.gameskinny.com/9ltw7/mmos-are-not-games-where-mmo-s-go-wrong

Survival is the Key

Those early games, in all their brutal punishment and so-called 'abuse' of the players actually gave the players something that instinctively motivated them to form the foundation of a strong societal framework within the confines of the game world. In layman's terms: those rats handing you your ass just outside the Freeport city gates actually made you actively seek out other players for protection. You would form groups for adventuring because the world was just too tough without them, and the cost of death was too high.

Your point about their lack of experience is sobering and probably true.

 

[Norfleet]

Don't worry, this isn't 1995 anymore. We have multiboxing now.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Don't worry, this isn't 1995 anymore. We have multiboxing now.

Thanks for bumping. I was hoping Xenich would see it. I know he/she likes idea of group-based MMORPG. This one also won't have any pvp and I know Xenich is fond of that. But evenso, I think it's cool to see this.

Its only problem is everybody making it's inexperienced. It probably will not get out the door.

EDIT: I disagree boxing is any sort of solution to low population or badly designed group-dependency. It may work ad hoc from the hip in a cowboy world kind of way, but I'd never bank on it professionally.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

I didn't post the website (I'll post the FAQ here and update the OP):
https://sagaoflucimia.com/game/faq/

A recent sumup video from Oct 2016:


Their youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/SagaOfLucimia

The pillars of gameplay 20-part series:


Part 14 covers darkness, something brought up in the "Why Should I Care" video:

 

[Mangoose]

Does the game offer enemies that have AI that challenges groups to be creative with strategies and tactics on the spot?

Or does the group have to play like robots that play the way the game is "meant" to play?

In other words: Am I thinking or am I repeating?

Honestly the only time I've enjoyed group-based combat is when my group is undergeared/underleveled/otherwise underpowered and we have to figure out some way to beat the boss. Otherwise it's just a "game" of tedious corporate management of the other players in your clan/guild if you're an officer (personal experience), or perfect repetition of what someone else strategized before you.

 

[Bester]

Locomotion and movement replication still utter shit. If you can't do something so simple in a week, let alone HALF A YEAR, you're irredeemable.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Does the game offer enemies that have AI that challenges groups to be creative with strategies and tactics on the spot?

Or does the group have to play like robots that play the way the game is "meant" to play?

In other words: Am I thinking or am I repeating?

Honestly the only time I've enjoyed group-based combat is when my group is undergeared/underleveled/otherwise underpowered and we have to figure out some way to beat the boss. Otherwise it's just a "game" of tedious corporate management of the other players in your clan/guild if you're an officer (personal experience), or perfect repetition of what someone else strategized before you.

I don't know enough about the game but '3 Pillars of Gameplay' video series above probably covers it.

The only real experience I have in grouping was Everquest. I agree the strained groups were the best. While they offered less expeirence than the organize veteran groups, they usually also meant my Ranger had more things to do. Because no matter how much we liked experience gains, it gets boring after 3 hours recycling the autoattack key, even with the (welcome) chats.

 

[Jadeite]

Watching MMORPG players thrill over the same hamster wheel over and over is like watching an alcoholic or a pornography addict. There is a group based MMORPG now; Project 1999. You can pointlessly kill wildlife alone for hours before earning the right to pointlessly kill crocodiles in the oasis with a group. No one will go to a dungeon (dangerous); no one will role-play; no one dies. A few minutes on a MUD makes one of these games look pitiful. They cannot do role-play. The pointless graphic detail makes it impossible. Why not roll an enchanted motorcycle ur-paladin or panda sorcerer in ProgressQuest? I just killed a preadolescent centaur and sold its rib for 2 gold.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Watching MMORPG players thrill over the same hamster wheel over and over is like watching an alcoholic or a pornography addict. There is a group based MMORPG now; Project 1999. You can pointlessly kill wildlife alone for hours before earning the right to pointlessly kill crocodiles in the oasis with a group. No one will go to a dungeon (dangerous); no one will role-play; no one dies. A few minutes on a MUD makes one of these games look pitiful. They cannot do role-play. The pointless graphic detail makes it impossible. Why not roll an enchanted motorcycle ur-paladin or panda sorcerer in ProgressQuest? I just killed a preadolescent centaur and sold its rib for 2 gold.

Ok I'll bite. You can spend the rest of your life complaining and wanting vanilla WoW or whatever it's you want, but I can guarantee you all MMORPG's are skinner boxes and with your attitude it's going to be tough finding anything you like. That might be good. Who has played MMO's and not felt like chunks of their life were flushed down the toilet? Rejoice in the knowledge you won't be staring down at the toilet anymore, wondering what happened to all that time.