Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Grimoire Thread

Weasel
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
1,865,661
Now having said this, I know (first hand) how emotional can you get over a bad review. You have invested years of your life and even bits of your soul, and it's not easy to stay cool to criticism. Developers are human beings, and the amount of effort put into a game is hard to imagine for players. In a way is like watching your son being beaten, you react emotionally (even if maybe he earned it). Furthermore he felt "betrayed" by someone from whom he expected support, as he probably believed at the time he had really given him a free key. But then once he checked he was a backer, he should have reacted accordingly, restoring his account and the thread and making a last reply to it before locking it.

The stuff about the "free key" / revoking it should definitely have been retracted. But from what I recall this was Cleve's response to Felipe's initial post with his feedback, relatively measured:

qcIknBk.png

Things rapidly escalated from there, about the words Cleve had actually used when talking about the issues with the game. It's a bit of a touchy subject, paraphrasing a dev's words when arguing a game should have been 'early access', whatever the intentions behind it. Next thing someone starts another thread about how "Even the dev admits the game shouldn't have been released in this state".

I think it's possible to respect Felipe's opinion on the late game and balance issues, while also expressing disappointment that his Steam recommendation changed not when he discovered these late game issues but after this unfortunate forum spat. Hopefully this all blows over in time, the community of people developing/supporting oldschool games like Grimoire is small enough as it is.
 

CRIT MAGNET

Literate
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
5
Are you by any chance dating a woman named Sherry?

I don't think I have this chance or I'm doing it in my sleep (and where is she because there might be the whole Atlantic Ocean between this person and I xD)
Anyway I don't know people here enough to know why you exactly associated me with this Sherry. Sorry if I'm missing a joke or something
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,886
Location
Water Play Catarinense
his Steam recommendation changed not when he discovered these late game issues but after this unfortunate forum spat
I still think Felipe should change it again. Might as well add how retarded Cleve is on that review, but it makes no sense to say "great game, had fun the whole time, but don't recommend it because the dev banned me from his forum". Are you recommending the game or the dev?
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,668
Ok, bought it yesterday. And I like it. So, I'm a real codexer after all.

But the user interface is really bad. All the novice mistakes have been made. I have a long list by now. As a software developer, it's hard not to. That might get on my nerves.

But, it has depth and soul. It's good. M&M 4&5 on steroids.

The lasting appeal depends on Clive fixing all the bugs and the user interface.


Clive: If you would standardize the shortcuts (ie. F3: map, F3 again: back) and made a usable inventory, that would make it great. And you might make it easier for people to figure out basic stuff, like how the fuck do you make a party.
 

Tarrant

Educated
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
76
It's amusing how so many people that probably have just played for a handful of hours here are shunning Felipe's opinions about the game. It's even more amusing how some of them even admit being waiting to V2, even if that was the whole point behind Felipe's rant in the steam forum that got him banned.

I honestly don't think Cleve got all Mr. Hyde on Felipe just because Felipe said there are balance problems. The real reason is Cleve feels Felipe overstated his own words about the problems and then kept pummeling the game for the same things Cleve admitted days before and promised to fix asap. Earlier I wrote Cleve's honesty is pretty rare and respect-worthy and now it's kindda clear why more devs aren't doing it. Because there's always someone who could turn it around and say "You see? Even the developers themselves admit the game is shit"..

I disagree on the reason why Cleve banned him. He might now be saying it's because Felipe misquoted him, but read the actual reason he typed on the ban form to get what was on Cleve's head at the time he clicked the "ban user" button:
No David, he intentionally twisted Cleve's post about that boss-fight into some admission that the game is "totally broken" and slandered it as an early access title, which would leave 99% of any RPGs worth a shit from the last 2 decades as "un-complete early access" or whatever.
Perhaps he misread it? Understandable. English is probably not his first language. Regardless, Cleve did NOT SAY that and is 100% in his rights to be pissed off about it.

Arguing "other RPGs are 'broken' too" as a counter to felipepepe's position is an overt logical fallacy.

But even if it weren't, it's the breadth and depth of issues Grimoire has that matter. For Christ's sake, there's an entire bar for each character that presently does nothing (food). That Cleve says he'll get around to implementing it doesn't change the fact as it stands currently.

It's tempting to point to flaws in other games as justification to gloss over Grimoire's problems, because it's in our nature to go there -- it's how our brains are wired. But our being prone to fallacious thinking doesn't mean it's any less of a fallacy.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Then there's the plebs like myself that have played 20-30 hours. We have an opinion, but shouldn't weight as much as the above because we just hit the mid-game.

20-30 hours isn't even mid-game, after 70-80 hours I have only about 50% of the maps visited and 60% of secrets found. And that's with no random encounters and getting through combat fast for the most part. I also think that the opinion of people who are not butthurt at the dev matters more, for obvious reasons. For balance, you can also discount opinions of fanboys, if you want.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
Your position in the "debate" here is clearly what we call on Internet a white knight. It's funny at first but you're writing so much bullshit that it becomes boring after a while.

Thank you guy from the Internet, but you see I don't care whether you are entertained or not. This is about people shitting on a man's lifework and passion project, which also happens to be exactly the game I have been waiting for 20 years. Yes, Cleve overreacted, but it is also clear that you are unfamiliar with hyperbole if you take everything said here at face value.

Yes, I was one of the few supporters over the years who believed that there is a great game in the waiting and that it would eventually come out. And since Wizardry 7 is pretty much my favorite, I always wanted a game in the same style and scope. So yes, I will definitely support developers who create the games I want - there aren't too many out there.
 

Latro

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
7,347
Location
Vita umbratilis
It's amusing how so many people that probably have just played for a handful of hours here are shunning Felipe's opinions about the game. It's even more amusing how some of them even admit being waiting to V2, even if that was the whole point behind Felipe's rant in the steam forum that got him banned.

I honestly don't think Cleve got all Mr. Hyde on Felipe just because Felipe said there are balance problems. The real reason is Cleve feels Felipe overstated his own words about the problems and then kept pummeling the game for the same things Cleve admitted days before and promised to fix asap. Earlier I wrote Cleve's honesty is pretty rare and respect-worthy and now it's kindda clear why more devs aren't doing it. Because there's always someone who could turn it around and say "You see? Even the developers themselves admit the game is shit"..

I disagree on the reason why Cleve banned him. He might now be saying it's because Felipe misquoted him, but read the actual reason he typed on the ban form to get what was on Cleve's head at the time he clicked the "ban user" button:
No David, he intentionally twisted Cleve's post about that boss-fight into some admission that the game is "totally broken" and slandered it as an early access title, which would leave 99% of any RPGs worth a shit from the last 2 decades as "un-complete early access" or whatever.
Perhaps he misread it? Understandable. English is probably not his first language. Regardless, Cleve did NOT SAY that and is 100% in his rights to be pissed off about it.

Arguing "other RPGs are 'broken' too" as a counter to felipepepe's position is an overt logical fallacy.

But even if it weren't, it's the breadth and depth of issues Grimoire has that matter. For Christ's sake, there's an entire bar for each character that presently does nothing (food). That Cleve says he'll get around to implementing it doesn't change the fact as it stands currently.

It's tempting to point to flaws in other games as justification to gloss over Grimoire's problems, because it's in our nature to go there -- it's how our brains are wired. But our being prone to fallacious thinking doesn't mean it's any less of a fallacy.
Broken, non-working stats in classic CRPGS are nothing new. I understand that you personally hate Cleve and will spend much of your time slandering him here and anywhere else, but an unbalanced RPG with disabled/non-working mechanics is nothing new to the genre. We also have the great, good fortune of Cleve being an honest man and a perfectionist, and he will fix it.

First the game will not come out. Then the manual will not come out. Then the new versions will not come out. And then...and then...I'm not sure what the end-game is here, we have no reason to believe Cleve will drop support here.
 

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
Patron
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
1,871,781
Location
Land of Rape & Honey ❤️
Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
About Grimoire's dictionary size...

EXITN...exit,quit,bye,goodbye,end,stop,farewell,adieu,adieux,adios,sayonara,chao,seeya

YESO...yes,yea,yay,ye,yeah,yavohl,jah,ya,agreed,affirmative,okay,ok,okey dokey,alright

JOBM...job,you do,vocation,profession,mission,occupation,trade,duty,calling,business

AEORB0...aeorb,aeorbs,orbhead,orbheads,orb head,orb heads

DEADG...dead,deceased,kaput,defunct,expired,died,perished,extinct,death,no more

HAHA>...ha,haha,ha ha ha,hee,heehee,ho,hoho,chuckle,hardee,har,tee hee

FUCKL...fuck,suck,shit,poo,piss,bugger,kiss,lick,cocksucker,dickhead,dickweed,fucker

COCKS...cock,cunt,dick,ass,asshole,tit,tits,fag,faggot,queer,homo,wanker,dyke,bitch,bastard
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,230
Location
Ingrija
Felipe is a poseur who pretends to like classic blobbers more then he actually does, never actually having completed one

He completed Grimoire. Have you?

All right, now that you mentioned me, I'll bite. That will be a fairly long rant, and something that was bugging me for a long time, so I'll speak it out.

Roguey is 100% spot on, essentially. I wouldn't go as far as calling Felipe or, say, CRPGaddict "poseurs", but their heart is not truly there. Let me explain.

Up until mid-90s, there were no rules on how to make CRPGs. None. Anything goes. People didn't give a fuck about having "consistent" setting and filled it with whatever they though sounded cool. They didn't lose sleep over why a secret vault sealed for a thousand of years is full of random encounters, or how a bunch of orcs is living next door to a dragon's lair yet hasn't been eaten forever ago. They created whatever RPG systems they thought sounded cool with utter disregard for "realism". They didn't give shit about "balance" and it was common for a green party to stumble into a random encounter they have zero chances to survive against, or for a fully developed party to nail a big boss with one lucky critical strike or uberspell.

Then something happened. Rules were written. Standarts, cliches and stereotypes were set in stone. All of a sudden, there was One True Way on how to design an RPG. Everything setting had to be a srs business carbon copy of Tolkien, or srs business realisticker than thou - and if something was "weird" and "quirky", it went miles out of its way screeching "look at me lookatme lookatmelookatme I am sooooo much quirkier and weirdier than others", explaining its quirkiness and weirdness in gigabytes of boring lore and justifying it in endless self-indulgent fart-smelling rants about postmodernism, homoeroticism or whatever they teach at gender philosophy studies. All rules were either "based on world's best (second best, third best) selling tabletop RPG", or, likewise, realisticker than thou, or copied MMO rules carefully crafted by (((matematicians))) and (((psychologists))) in order to maximize addiction, ingame purchases or whatever else brings profit under a current monetization model.

You may say RPGs have "matured" in mid-90s. I would not dispute that, in so far as being "mature" means being an annoying bore and death of youthful creativity. Fact is, for the past 20 years game design is no longer a field of joyful spontaneity, it's a deeply researched scientific field where everyone does the same One True Proved Thing and anything outside the approved Gender Game Design Studies course is considered an atavism we're better off having outlived it. In short, everybody in the field is a fucking Sawyer. I am not lamenting the lack of innovashun or artfaggotry or something - what I mean is both players and developers who were late (past 95 or so) to the party have very rigid stereotypes over how things are supposed to be done, and anything that doesn't fit their trope vision of a Proper Game Design is automatically wrong.

Case in point, CRPGaddict (that's why I mentioned him in the beginning). I was following his playthrough of Fate: Gates of Dawn, a legendary game I just couldn't find the resolve to play to an end myself. He lauded some things, but mostly he complained. He complained a lot. And the reasoning of his complaints can be summed up to "this awful game dares to do shit differently than I am used to". He might have a (rather silly) ambition of completing every CRPG in existence starting with PLATO programs, but he still judges them with the eyes of a Fallout/BG/TES player, fully entrenched in the tropes of modern Proper Game Design and incapable of embracing a different zeitgeist when shit could have been done differently simply because there were no rules on how to do that shit.

The criticism of Grimoire, Felipe's in particular, comes from the same sentiment. They see something working in a different way than what they were taught to expect for the past 20 years, and they automatically assume it is broken. They refuse to acknowledge Grimoire is a genuine early 90s game. Heck, if they'd never have heard of Wizardry and were shown Crusaders of Dark Savant today, their criticism would be the same. "Waah, robots in my Tolkien game! Waah, thermal pineapple could be used to kill everything! Waah, critical strikes are overpowered! Waah, I was killed by my first random encounter! Early access, pls hire a bunch of Sawyers to balance it into a grey mire of boredom!". They just don't get it. They are hardwired to.

If these guys were car vloggers, they'd spend months videoing themselves driving '30s Packards and '50s DeSotos, showing off how much they are into car antiquity - but offer them a modern-day Packard replica, and they'll go ballistic because muh navigational computer and muh hybrid engine and muh current year.

Fuck V2. Love Grimoire the way it is, or accept it that you are a newfag decline scion and play your post-95 designed-by-the-book CRPGs all while whining non-stop how boring and samey they are (gee, I wonder why!).
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,886
Location
Water Play Catarinense
They didn't give shit about "balance" and it was common for a green party to stumble into a random encounter they have zero chances to survive against, or for a fully developed party to nail a big boss with one lucky critical strike or uberspell.
This made me think that maybe my point in balance is not being understood. I'm not saying this kind of thing is bad, fuck I love Wizardry. This becomes bad when EVERY fight is like that at the last dungeon. If it was some random encounters, or only the set encounters, fuck I'd not be complaining about balance(I'd be complaining about some things in the combat that makes this being boring).


People didn't give a fuck about having "consistent" setting and filled it with whatever they though sounded cool. They didn't lose sleep over why a secret vault sealed for a thousand of years is full of random encounters, or how a bunch of orcs is living next door to a dragon's lair yet hasn't been eaten forever ago. They created whatever RPG systems they thought sounded cool with utter disregard for "realism".
:negative:
 

DavidBVal

4 Dimension Games
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
2,998
Location
Madrid
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Pathfinder: Wrath
Felipe is a poseur who pretends to like classic blobbers more then he actually does, never actually having completed one

He completed Grimoire. Have you?

All right, now that you mentioned me, I'll bite. That will be a fairly long rant, and something that was bugging me for a long time, so I'll speak it out.

Roguey is 100% spot on, essentially. I wouldn't go as far as calling Felipe or, say, CRPGaddict "poseurs", but their heart is not truly there. Let me explain.

Up until mid-90s, there were no rules on how to make CRPGs. None. Anything goes. People didn't give a fuck about having "consistent" setting and filled it with whatever they though sounded cool. They didn't lose sleep over why a secret vault sealed for a thousand of years is full of random encounters, or how a bunch of orcs is living next door to a dragon's lair yet hasn't been eaten forever ago. They created whatever RPG systems they thought sounded cool with utter disregard for "realism". They didn't give shit about "balance" and it was common for a green party to stumble into a random encounter they have zero chances to survive against, or for a fully developed party to nail a big boss with one lucky critical strike or uberspell.

Then something happened. Rules were written. Standarts, cliches and stereotypes were set in stone. All of a sudden, there was One True Way on how to design an RPG. Everything setting had to be a srs business carbon copy of Tolkien, or srs business realisticker than thou - and if something was "weird" and "quirky", it went miles out of its way screeching "look at me lookatme lookatmelookatme I am sooooo much quirkier and weirdier than others", explaining its quirkiness and weirdness in gigabytes of boring lore and justifying it in endless self-indulgent fart-smelling rants about postmodernism, homoeroticism or whatever they teach at gender philosophy studies. All rules were either "based on world's best (second best, third best) selling tabletop RPG", or, likewise, realisticker than thou, or copied MMO rules carefully crafted by (((matematicians))) and (((psychologists))) in order to maximize addiction, ingame purchases or whatever else brings profit under a current monetization model.

You may say RPGs have "matured" in mid-90s. I would not dispute that, in so far as being "mature" means being an annoying bore and death of youthful creativity. Fact is, for the past 20 years game design is no longer a field of joyful spontaneity, it's a deeply researched scientific field where everyone does the same One True Proved Thing and anything outside the approved Gender Game Design Studies course is considered an atavism we're better off having outlived it. In short, everybody in the field is a fucking Sawyer. I am not lamenting the lack of innovashun or artfaggotry or something - what I mean is both players and developers who were late (past 95 or so) to the party have very rigid stereotypes over how things are supposed to be done, and anything that doesn't fit their trope vision of a Proper Game Design is automatically wrong.

Case in point, CRPGaddict (that's why I mentioned him in the beginning). I was following his playthrough of Fate: Gates of Dawn, a legendary game I just couldn't find the resolve to play to an end myself. He lauded some things, but mostly he complained. He complained a lot. And the reasoning of his complaints can be summed up to "this awful game dares to do shit differently than I am used to". He might have a (rather silly) ambition of completing every CRPG in existence starting with PLATO programs, but he still judges them with the eyes of a Fallout/BG/TES player, fully entrenched in the tropes of modern Proper Game Design and incapable of embracing a different zeitgeist when shit could have been done differently simply because there were no rules on how to do that shit.

The criticism of Grimoire, Felipe's in particular, comes from the same sentiment. They see something working in a different way than what they were taught to expect for the past 20 years, and they automatically assume it is broken. They refuse to acknowledge Grimoire is a genuine early 90s game. Heck, if they'd never have heard of Wizardry and were shown Crusaders of Dark Savant today, their criticism would be the same. "Waah, robots in my Tolkien game! Waah, thermal pineapple could be used to kill everything! Waah, critical strikes are overpowered! Waah, I was killed by my first random encounter! Early access, pls hire a bunch of Sawyers to balance it into a grey mire of boredom!". They just don't get it. They are hardwired to.

If these guys were car vloggers, they'd spend months videoing themselves driving '30s Packards and '50s DeSotos, showing off how much they are into car antiquity - but offer them a modern-day Packard replica, and they'll go ballistic because muh navigational computer and muh hybrid engine and muh current year.

Fuck V2. Love Grimoire the way it is, or accept it that you are a newfag decline scion and play your post-95 designed-by-the-book CRPGs all while whining non-stop how boring and samey they are (gee, I wonder why!).

Great post and I agree with most of it, but not on how it applies to the current situation.

Imagine Crusaders of the Dark Savant had not been tested by the 12 people showing up as testers in the credits, which probably played it over and over for months. Imagine just D.W. Bradley tested it. Now imagine it is released and then gets a few patches in the first 2 weeks. It would still be a work of genius, it would still be great, but it would be seriously broken and probably a much worse game (and less fun) than it ended up being. THAT is my point, and I believe it's Felipe's as well.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
what I mean is both players and developers who were late (past 95 or so) to the party have very rigid stereotypes over how things are supposed to be done, and anything that doesn't fit their trope vision of a Proper Game Design is automatically wrong.
The total lack of self-awareness of someone who claims to be open-minded, but when stuff like Undertale, Labyrinth of Touhou or Generation Xth appears they refuse to play because it's "hipster crap" or "weaboo shit".

Bravo.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
The claim that this game should have entered Early Access is even more autistic than Cleve himself. Cleve has advertised the game being in development for over 20 years right there on the Steam page. Only utter noobs will be led to believe that this means it's polished beyond the limits of mortal game developers. And who gives a shit about that crowd?

Anyone able to use a search engine knows about the history of the game. The broken promises, missed deadlines, the whole troubled history. Being in Early Access would have been misleading as it signals that development may be halted at any time and never completed. The only thing stopping Cleve from further work on Grimoire would be a heart attack. Not that that's unlikely, but you can file that under vis major.
 

CRIT MAGNET

Literate
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
5
Welp I get the hyperboles but when people speak ONLY with hyperboles and exaggeration all over the place, you can't take them seriously and it becomes quite ridiculous to read.. Cleve is doing it, you're doing it.
This is about people shitting on a man's lifework and passion project.
Look at that. Such drama ! such catastrophic vision !

It pictures exactly what I meant. Thank you for your cooperation.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,230
Location
Ingrija
what I mean is both players and developers who were late (past 95 or so) to the party have very rigid stereotypes over how things are supposed to be done, and anything that doesn't fit their trope vision of a Proper Game Design is automatically wrong.
"look at me lookatme lookatmelookatme I am sooooo much quirkier and weirdier than others"

Case in point.
 

Lord Andre

Arcane
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
3,716
Location
Gypsystan
what I mean is both players and developers who were late (past 95 or so) to the party have very rigid stereotypes over how things are supposed to be done, and anything that doesn't fit their trope vision of a Proper Game Design is automatically wrong.
The total lack of self-awareness of someone who claims to be open-minded, but when stuff like Undertale, Labyrinth of Touhou or Generation Xth appears they refuse to play because it's "hipster crap" or "weaboo shit".

Bravo.

Because they are hipster crap and weaboo shit.

One of the best games I've played and replayed more than once is Riviera: The Promised Land. It has anime style graphics and for someone not in the know it looks suspiciously like it was made in rpg maker. The difference is it has so much soul and charm it blows modern games out of their socks.

Mondblut is right. The industry is overflowing with imitators and talentless self-styled artists.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Without getting into the current drama, mondblut's post explains a lot of how uncanny it felt for me to play Grimoire.

As someone who got into RPGs with Baldur's Gate and only retroactively played games like UU and even Wiz8, Grimoire feels weird. Someon like me can't tell what is Cleveism working its magic and what is early 90s design style. But there's an uncanniness in how towns are designed, how encounters are placed, things like that, so that you can sense as you play a very different approach that constructed this world (and I mean that in a mechanical sense, not in a lore/writing sense, though of course the point here is that the 'lore' is considered more as a mechanic as well).

The point, of course, is that I am enjoying Grimoire a great deal as a relative blobber noob, and a lot of that enjoyment comes down to realising that this weird system has its own ways to give you fun that is altogether different from a Fallout. Suddenly, the reloads, the in-jokes, the ludicrous puzzles, etc. aren't jarring or frustrating or problematic in a way that they would be if they featured elsewhere. It's hard to explain, of course. And trying to make bullet points boiling down what exactly makes the formula work is an idiot's endeavour, because now you're just making Ships of Theseus with stupid questions like "would an old school blobber still be an old school blobber if it had [insert x single feature]".

But playing Grimoire you don't get the sense of a crazy, disjointed game each of whose parts are flailing around doing its own thing, which is what I had expected from Cleve being Cleve and a twenty year dev cycle. You actually get the sense of everything fitting together extremely cohesively - the flying golden babies, the overpowered spell here and there, the weird writing/lore that you can never place as firmly pastiche or serious or whatnot, even the audiovisuals (which in isolation seem nothing great). And that does a lot to make the game fun even as you recognise oh here's a bug, here's an unfinished feature, here's a criminally unbalanced boss.

(Honestly, I don't think Felipepepe was even calling the game completely broken or whatever, but now we are in the world of DRAMA where you have to take two sides.)
 

CRIT MAGNET

Literate
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
5
Even if I wouldn't agree about the "hipster crap" thing about UNDERTALE, I get why you say it like that, Andre.

But Labyrinth of Touhou weaboo shit ? Why is it different from another anime style RPG ? (or dungeon crawler or whatever you categorize the game) I'm gueninely curious as I've played it a bit.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
The claim that this game should have entered Early Access is even more autistic than Cleve himself. Cleve has advertised the game being in development for over 20 years right there on the Steam page. Only utter noobs will be led to believe that this means it's polished beyond the limits of mortal game developers.
What the fuck? I swear to God you are truly mentally retarded. If there is one thing people could hope after 20 years of development is that the after 20 years the game is finally ready, the microissues are solved and the bugs ironed out.

Anyone able to use a search engine knows about the history of the game. The broken promises, missed deadlines, the whole troubled history.
In what world are you living in? Do you spend all your life on the Codex? Come here boy, let me tell you something. There is a whole world out there, not everyone will be up to date about the Codex drama surrounding this game. Do you expect everyone to start searching about Grimoire's background? Are you out of your mind? Why would somebody who has never heard about Grimiore before would do that?
 
Last edited:

Latro

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
7,347
Location
Vita umbratilis
Great post and I agree with most of it, but not on how it applies to the current situation
So you disagree with all of it then.

Felipe's point is not that it is an un-balanced game in need of patches (which Cleve is working on). It's that it should be an Early Access game and that "from Cleve's own words, it is broken". You're changing what peepee said and where the point of contention is.
Completely irresponsible.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
Reminder to the senile aisle that 90% of RPGs in the "golden age" of the 80's were Ultima or Dungeon Master clones. And 99% of them were either Tolkien or Sci-fi. Often both.

And that today we still have RPG trying different things - stuff like Age of Decadence, NEO Scavenger, Lords of Xulima, Sunless Sea, Expedition: Conquistador, Dex, Dragon's Dogma, etc...

Of course, if you're too "open-minded" to play any game that tries creative ideas, then you won't see creative ideas.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom