Grimoire Thread

[Haba]

How to make Qorl teach Astral Vision though? Had to give up, Temple of Hathor Sogg that will be.

The second time you meet him, I am guessing.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

News on save games (and Patreon)

 

[treborSux]

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

Old Wizardry tradition. By old I mean pre-Bradley Wizardry even.

Getting surprised by a few Greater Demons on the last floor in Proving Grounds is the most cruel bullshit. Lots of people back then were probably iron manning their scenario disks since it was basically how Wizardry was designed to be played. Have fun spending another 100 hours just trying to retrieve the party you lost by common bad luck. Those were um, different times.

 

[Viata]

Even the pirates have tried to get support on this forum. I don't think that happens with ordinary games.

I wonder why.

 

[PhantasmaNL]

Only played for about an hour or so, and with wandering monsters at onslaught and difficulty at superhero, it did not give me monsters at every step or turn, but about every 3 steps. Highest number of enemies was 12.

Btw Patreon may actually work for Cleve.

Although recently they have been banning people for having original ideas and opinions not corresponding with the leftist narrative. That may be an issue for Golden Era.

 

[Haba]

Now that I think of it, it's probably a good thing that the metalsmith is broken working as intended, almost never procs. Having 3 guys with 100 in lethal blow would be even sillier than having 2 guys with 100.

I have 6 guys with 100 in lethal blow. It was worth restarting after playing 40% of the game with just 3 of those. The sheer thrill of it!

The thing with Grimoire is that it has a lot of fights. I am perfectly fine if the correct setup trivializing trash fights. In fact we should have more such options.

Just make the game throw a curveball once in a while so you have to switch your tactics and develop new ones.

Oh, and faster combat animations, for the love of god.

 

[Reapa]

I anxiously await the combat balance fixes (and the manual).

Made a "mondblut" special; 6 Melee, Bard, Sage.

First few fights in prison (assumed to be "set" fights since I had random set on Never) ...

Several encounters against 3-6 Worms, no sweat at all. A few against one or two Rats. Once again, no sweat. Easy as pie. Too easy, really, as very few of these critters ever got a chance to do anything before death embraced them.

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

git gud

Not sure what that means or if that was a light-hearted, possibly sarcastic response, but how do you "git gud" when you're level 1, still using sticks and pencils as weapons, and combat options are rather limited?

yeah, it was sarcastic. i'm the proud owner of a thread that criticizes among others the bad encounter design. but some people rate my posts shit as if there was nothing to criticize. so obviously you're at fault, not the game when you get one hit early in the game.

 

[Baff]

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

If your front 2 guys don't have at least 50hp, then you did something wrong.

 

[Biggus]

I'd say without the release and all the feedback coming in Cleve would never fix and polish the game the way he imagines. He'd be stuck in the microissues stage forever. In a game this vast feedback from dozens or hundreds of players is indispensable. Look at all the giants like EA or Ubisoft with armies of QA desk jockeys, even them keep patching and rebalancing their games after release as soon as customer feedback starts rolling in.

He should've released the game way sooner, in a beta regime or some such.

Thing is, he did, but he never listened. Now he is listening, so that is a good thing all around. Whether or not he can implement the things that are needed, well, time will tell.

 

[Rick]

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

If your front 2 guys don't have at least 50hp, then you did something wrong.

So I should always put bonus points in HP? Which also means I should never settle for a roll below, say, 30?

And in this case I put them into STR and AGI so they could actually damage stuff (which they did, gloriously, against worms and rats) but could not touch the Bugs. So putting BP's into HP instead of STR and AGI, how will that give me a better chance of beating them?

 

[Streaming Instability]

I anxiously await the combat balance fixes (and the manual).

Made a "mondblut" special; 6 Melee, Bard, Sage.

First few fights in prison (assumed to be "set" fights since I had random set on Never) ...

Several encounters against 3-6 Worms, no sweat at all. A few against one or two Rats. Once again, no sweat. Easy as pie. Too easy, really, as very few of these critters ever got a chance to do anything before death embraced them.

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

They are only coprophages, and you can take them with a level 1 party.

 

[Rick]

I anxiously await the combat balance fixes (and the manual).

Made a "mondblut" special; 6 Melee, Bard, Sage.

First few fights in prison (assumed to be "set" fights since I had random set on Never) ...

Several encounters against 3-6 Worms, no sweat at all. A few against one or two Rats. Once again, no sweat. Easy as pie. Too easy, really, as very few of these critters ever got a chance to do anything before death embraced them.

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

They are only coprophages, and you can take them with a level 1 party.

Can you explain the tactics needed?

I'm rather short on useful spells and still have crappy equipment. Even with majorly enhanced STR and AGI, I have been unable to do any real damage in several encounters.

Or are you saying it's possible to whup them if I get a wonderful streak of favorable dice rolls?

 

[Streaming Instability]

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

If your front 2 guys don't have at least 50hp, then you did something wrong.

So I should always put bonus points in HP? Which also means I should never settle for a roll below, say, 30?

And in this case I put them into STR and AGI so they could actually damage stuff (which they did, gloriously, against worms and rats) but could not touch the Bugs. So putting BP's into HP instead of STR and AGI, how will that give me a better chance of beating them?

For the imprisoned start putting bonus points into hp is quite important, IMO. You will run into pike-wielding soldiers who can skewer your backline as well.

 

[Rick]

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

If your front 2 guys don't have at least 50hp, then you did something wrong.

So I should always put bonus points in HP? Which also means I should never settle for a roll below, say, 30?

And in this case I put them into STR and AGI so they could actually damage stuff (which they did, gloriously, against worms and rats) but could not touch the Bugs. So putting BP's into HP instead of STR and AGI, how will that give me a better chance of beating them?

For the imprisoned start putting bonus points into hp is quite important, IMO. You will run into pike-wielding soldiers who can skewer your backline as well.

I understand that, absolutely, but won't the seriously reduced STR and AGI be just as bad as low HP? If I can't damage anything, they'll take longer but the end will be the same?

 

[Streaming Instability]

I anxiously await the combat balance fixes (and the manual).

Made a "mondblut" special; 6 Melee, Bard, Sage.

First few fights in prison (assumed to be "set" fights since I had random set on Never) ...

Several encounters against 3-6 Worms, no sweat at all. A few against one or two Rats. Once again, no sweat. Easy as pie. Too easy, really, as very few of these critters ever got a chance to do anything before death embraced them.

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

They are only coprophages, and you can take them with a level 1 party.

Can you explain the tactics needed?

I'm rather short on useful spells and still have crappy equipment. Even with majorly enhanced STR and AGI, I have been unable to do any real damage in several encounters.

Or are you saying it's possible to whup them if I get a wonderful streak of favorable dice rolls?

1) Some races have huge unarmed advantages and trying to fight using an unsharpened stick just gimps them.
2) Charm is an absolute life-saver, as long as you can tank a hit or two in the first round, then the charmed bugs will kill each other.
3) Chilling touch is the most mana-efficient damage dealer early game.
4) Blinding flash can be useful for disabling groups.

There are lots of tactical options available - but - if your frontliners have low HP, they're not cut out for this start (or most starts unless you know what you're doing, i.e. metagaming).

 

[Streaming Instability]

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

If your front 2 guys don't have at least 50hp, then you did something wrong.

So I should always put bonus points in HP? Which also means I should never settle for a roll below, say, 30?

And in this case I put them into STR and AGI so they could actually damage stuff (which they did, gloriously, against worms and rats) but could not touch the Bugs. So putting BP's into HP instead of STR and AGI, how will that give me a better chance of beating them?

For the imprisoned start putting bonus points into hp is quite important, IMO. You will run into pike-wielding soldiers who can skewer your backline as well.

I understand that, absolutely, but won't the seriously reduced STR and AGI be just as bad as low HP? If I can't damage anything, they'll take longer but the end will be the same?

No, they're not just as bad. A 10% reduction in strength might extend your battles, but proportionally speaking, putting bonus points into HP almost doubles them (early on) and you reap an outsized benefit. Keep your vitality high and you will be able to penetrate.

 

[Rick]

I anxiously await the combat balance fixes (and the manual).

Made a "mondblut" special; 6 Melee, Bard, Sage.

First few fights in prison (assumed to be "set" fights since I had random set on Never) ...

Several encounters against 3-6 Worms, no sweat at all. A few against one or two Rats. Once again, no sweat. Easy as pie. Too easy, really, as very few of these critters ever got a chance to do anything before death embraced them.

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

They are only coprophages, and you can take them with a level 1 party.

Can you explain the tactics needed?

I'm rather short on useful spells and still have crappy equipment. Even with majorly enhanced STR and AGI, I have been unable to do any real damage in several encounters.

Or are you saying it's possible to whup them if I get a wonderful streak of favorable dice rolls?

1) Some races have huge unarmed advantages and trying to fight using an unsharpened stick just gimps them.
2) Charm is an absolute life-saver, as long as you can tank a hit or two in the first round, then the charmed bugs will kill each other.
3) Chilling touch is the most mana-efficient damage dealer early game.
4) Blinding flash can be useful for disabling groups.

There are lots of tactical options available - but - if your frontliners have low HP, they're not cut out for this start (or most starts unless you know what you're doing, i.e. metagaming).

Sounds good, but it also sounds like very specific spells have to be present among your characters. i.e., certain spells are overpowered (?) at least early in the game.

This party I'm running happens to be low on magic (just a Bard and Sage), so my impression is that such a party, without resorting to save-scumming (or even if so), has little or no chance.

I'm sure the manual will help, when it comes out. My ultimate plan is to build a typical party (tanks in the front, ranger, bard, cleric, mage, etc) which is a little disappointing since it seems (I could be wrong) that a "specialized" party will crash and burn, either early on, or later.

Thanks.

 

[Streaming Instability]

I anxiously await the combat balance fixes (and the manual).

Made a "mondblut" special; 6 Melee, Bard, Sage.

First few fights in prison (assumed to be "set" fights since I had random set on Never) ...

Several encounters against 3-6 Worms, no sweat at all. A few against one or two Rats. Once again, no sweat. Easy as pie. Too easy, really, as very few of these critters ever got a chance to do anything before death embraced them.

Then: 3 ?BUGS?; 1st warrior died in one hit, 2nd warrior died in one hit and no one - absolutely no one - was able to penetrate in 3 rounds. Not one. Only success was the Bard sleeping one per round.

Not saying combat is broken (easy enough to just reload), but a random (?) encounter against unbeatable foes isn't what I'd call balanced.

They are only coprophages, and you can take them with a level 1 party.

Can you explain the tactics needed?

I'm rather short on useful spells and still have crappy equipment. Even with majorly enhanced STR and AGI, I have been unable to do any real damage in several encounters.

Or are you saying it's possible to whup them if I get a wonderful streak of favorable dice rolls?

1) Some races have huge unarmed advantages and trying to fight using an unsharpened stick just gimps them.
2) Charm is an absolute life-saver, as long as you can tank a hit or two in the first round, then the charmed bugs will kill each other.
3) Chilling touch is the most mana-efficient damage dealer early game.
4) Blinding flash can be useful for disabling groups.

There are lots of tactical options available - but - if your frontliners have low HP, they're not cut out for this start (or most starts unless you know what you're doing, i.e. metagaming).

Sounds good, but it also sounds like very specific spells have to be present among your characters. i.e., certain spells are overpowered (?) at least early in the game.

This party I'm running happens to be low on magic (just a Bard and Sage), so my impression is that such a party, without resorting to save-scumming (or even if so), has little or no chance.

I'm sure the manual will help, when it comes out. My ultimate plan is to build a typical party (tanks in the front, ranger, bard, cleric, mage, etc) which is a little disappointing since it seems (I could be wrong) that a "specialized" party will crash and burn, either early on, or later.

Thanks.

Well, running specialized parties is usually only recommended if you know what you're doing, because their weaknesses will only be exacerbated by their lopsided nature.

I wouldn't say overpowered, but if you're fighting something that hits harder than you do - charm has massive utility because it allows you to turn the tables.

 

[Lord Andre]

Rick

Unless you have saurian berserkers fighting unarmed on the front row, you are going to die a lot at level 1 and get no penetration up the wazoo.

My first party had a human warrior and a drow ranger on the front row and it was a long string of save-reload to level 2.

After level 2 it doesn't matter that much. Level 3, no penetration will be a very rare occurrence. BTW, it has nothing to do with strength or skill or stats, it's pure level. Your vitality pool is too small to hit reliably.

One thing that helped for me was to give everyone thrusting weapons and always select thrust.

Don't put points in HP, it will mean nothing by level 3 but 15 points dropped in speed will help the whole game (for fighters).

Don't be shy to use disabling spells like charm, sleep, confusion and learn how targeting different rows works. (that little number that says 1 near the portraits, click it when there are more rows of enemies).

Let me give you an example on the last paragraph. I'm attacked by 3 rows: 1-stinking bug, 2-fire beetle, 3-firebeetle).

I know that the stink beetle will be killed by the time my mages cast so the firebeetles will advance one row by that point. So knowing this I cast sleep on the second row to disable that incoming firebeetle and concentrate ice spells on the front row to bring down that other incoming firebeetle. Since the fighters are set to only hit row 1, there's no chance to hit the row 2-firebeetle because that would wake him up. I have charm so I might throw a charm at the first beetle because even if you hit charmed enemies they don't wake up while sleeping ones wake up when hit. Charm however is not as reliable as sleep(in my experience) so that's why I go sleep for the back row.

Anyway, my point is that the game has some depth and you learn to get by after you fully understand the system.

My second point is that with certain races, level1 to level2 is pretty hellish so tough it out and save/load, after the first level up it's all good. By level 4 you'll be roflstomping random encounters that used to kill you with nothing but default mellee actions.

Check your characters screen as well, they may have a special ability and you don't even know. It's listed there.

 

[Rick]

Rick
After level 2 it doesn't matter that much. Level 3, no penetration will be a very rare occurrence. BTW, it has nothing to do with strength or skill or stats, it's pure level. Your vitality pool is too small to hit reliably.

Great advice, thanks, but ... are you serious that attribute/skills mean nothing regarding penetration?

 

[Lord Andre]

Rick
After level 2 it doesn't matter that much. Level 3, no penetration will be a very rare occurrence. BTW, it has nothing to do with strength or skill or stats, it's pure level. Your vitality pool is too small to hit reliably.

Great advice, thanks, but ... are you serious that attribute/skills mean nothing regarding penetration?

Off my own experience(not fact):

Strength and agility do help with penetration but they play off the vitality pool somehow so no matter how much you pump them at level1 it won't make a considerable difference.

Some people will tell you to keep your vitality up for good penetration but 30/30 vitality is not enough full or not.

Weapon skills help to get extra hits. I had a sword human guy with 60 skill and 70 something speed at level 3 and if the first hit connected he would attack 3-4 more times in a row. The extra hits seemed to occur after I dumped a bunch of skillpoints into sword.

 

[Lord Andre]

One last thing, I don't think anyone mentioned it here or in the hints thread.

Warriors suck because no lethal blow but I really wanted one so I took one for the second row. Hey at least he can pump the weapon skill really fast...

But then I looted a gauche from a random chest - a dagger that goes in the second hand... since you have martial points up the wazoo I pumped both sword and bladesmanship and now he can get extra attacks from both weapons. At higher level I assume you could get 10 attacks in a row, 5 with each weapon. It's not lethal blow but it adds up to some serious damage.

 

[Baxander]

Blow it out your ass, you obese pederast. I didn't pirate your game, and I certainly don't give a damn about not being able to post in your forum. Get bent.

If you can lift a car, that's not obesity, little man. That's also not fat you're looking at. Trying to get it back this week at the gym, amazing how weeks of sedentary parked solid in front of a computer and am still doing 140 pound bent-arm pullovers. Surreal. Muscles swelled so much from a single workout I looked like the Michelin tire man, could barely move, was hyper inflating inside my own body like one of those Sumo suits. Just fell over and laid there as quads and biceps bloated to 10x size at rest. Basically did ten minutes of weightlifting and metamorphosed into Hulk on the spot. Casuals at the gym were crying and curled up into fetal position in horror beneath tables completely traumatised at seeing me 4x height and weight when I entered. Where does the mass come from, man? Where does the mass come from? How I can enter the gym weighing 280 and leave apparently weighing 560?

If you didn't care then why did you come skipping over to RPGCodex with your mascara tears pouring down crying dindonuffin?

Listen, is that 700 pound man sitting on a bucket playing computer games in your avatar? Who is that? Please don't tell me that lard hillock is you. Just looking at your avatar the smell hit me and that's physically impossible.

I will personally purchase 50 copies of Grimoire and donate them to 50 random people who want a key if you will post a video of you lifting in the gym. A legit video, no cheating. Would love to see your technique.

 

[Baxander]

Thank you for posting the video Cleve.....gonna get those copies now.

 

[Snorkack]

Thank you for posting the video Cleve.....gonna get those copies now.

I'd take one, please.