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Grimoire Class Discussion/Beginner's Tips

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
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DEV: I don't think this has any combat effect, and it certainly doesn't look like it does anything for MP regen. I'm even wondering if it's worth sinking points into considering the negligible amount of magic increase you seem to get per levelup, because your 20-30 points in devotion looks like it leads to a 50 or so increase in MP by level 10.

50 points in magic is a lot at lvl 10. It is a real lot.
 

Zep Zepo

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Yeah it looks like there is no way to get ninjutsu. It might be the character editor being weird, but changing to Assassin won't make it show up in your nor will gaining a level in assassin. Even if you put points into ninjutsu in the editor. I guess right now the only real reason to be an assassin is to get Necro spells. Very little reason to be assassin over pure ranger.

It's not the editor. Editor won't show you skills in game even if you put points into it (in the editor), if you haven't learned or acquired that skill in game you won't see the skill or your changes, in game.

Zep--

What happens if I put points into Ninjutsu before I switched the guy to Assassin?

Nothing, the skill it flagged as OFF until something in game triggers it on.

I believe all those skills for the special classes are broken.

Zep--

Can you create a male drake metalsmith and check if the lethal blow skill flag is on or off? I saw someone complain about it and I have the same issue.

Took a Drake Metalsmith all the way to level 25, learned a few new skills, but never Lethal Blow.

Learned 1 new spell every level starting at 6.

So, if you are supposed to get/learn Lethal Blow at some point, I guess it's broken.

Zep--
 

Brood_Star

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Aug 3, 2017
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DEV: I don't think this has any combat effect, and it certainly doesn't look like it does anything for MP regen. I'm even wondering if it's worth sinking points into considering the negligible amount of magic increase you seem to get per levelup, because your 20-30 points in devotion looks like it leads to a 50 or so increase in MP by level 10.

50 points in magic is a lot at lvl 10. It is a real lot.
NPCs nearly double any player generated mana pool. Is the difference between 250 and 300 mana (ie 20%) really that significant when NPCs start with 277 and can go upwards of 500, for the investment of 30 attribute points? You can argue 50 mana is a lot, but my point was 30 attribute points is a lot (more than most bonus rolls) and the payoff isn't there.
 

Lady_Error

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I just read that the amount mana you get on LEVELUP depends on the amount of mana you ROLLED in character creation. If you rolled 4 mana at creation, you won't get more than 4 mana on levelups. This seems to be class dependent, eg. a Sage can roll something like 4-18 mana in creation.

This may still be influenced by attributes like DEV, eg. a higher roll is more probable with higher DEV.
 

mondblut

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Aug 10, 2005
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Location
Ingrija
Can you create a male drake metalsmith and check if the lethal blow skill flag is on or off? I saw someone complain about it and I have the same issue.

Interesting that you ask. I have a male drake metalsmith in my party (running since 1.02 or 01 even), and he does have lethal blow. However, I don't remember it ever rising from use. My berserkers and ranger maxed it forever ago, and the smith it stuck at 38, only raising it on levelups.
 

gestalt11

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Messages
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I just read that the amount mana you get on LEVELUP depends on the amount of mana you ROLLED in character creation. If you rolled 4 mana at creation, you won't get more than 4 mana on levelups. This seems to be class dependent, eg. a Sage can roll something like 4-18 mana in creation.

This may still be influenced by attributes like DEV, eg. a higher roll is more probable with higher DEV.

Judging by my various savescums I don't think this is true.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
Can you create a male drake metalsmith and check if the lethal blow skill flag is on or off? I saw someone complain about it and I have the same issue.

Interesting that you ask. I have a male drake metalsmith in my party (running since 1.02 or 01 even), and he does have lethal blow. However, I don't remember it ever rising from use. My berserkers and ranger maxed it forever ago, and the smith it stuck at 38, only raising it on levelups.

Mine rarely lvled up until it hit around 30, then it was consistent when fighting until the high 80s I have now at lvl 9.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
I just read that the amount mana you get on LEVELUP depends on the amount of mana you ROLLED in character creation. If you rolled 4 mana at creation, you won't get more than 4 mana on levelups. This seems to be class dependent, eg. a Sage can roll something like 4-18 mana in creation.

This may still be influenced by attributes like DEV, eg. a higher roll is more probable with higher DEV.

Just read from someone saying they think or know?
 

Lady_Error

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I just read that the amount mana you get on LEVELUP depends on the amount of mana you ROLLED in character creation. If you rolled 4 mana at creation, you won't get more than 4 mana on levelups. This seems to be class dependent, eg. a Sage can roll something like 4-18 mana in creation.

This may still be influenced by attributes like DEV, eg. a higher roll is more probable with higher DEV.

Judging by my various savescums I don't think this is true.

So what do you think is true?
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
DEV: I don't think this has any combat effect, and it certainly doesn't look like it does anything for MP regen. I'm even wondering if it's worth sinking points into considering the negligible amount of magic increase you seem to get per levelup, because your 20-30 points in devotion looks like it leads to a 50 or so increase in MP by level 10.

50 points in magic is a lot at lvl 10. It is a real lot.
NPCs nearly double any player generated mana pool. Is the difference between 250 and 300 mana (ie 20%) really that significant when NPCs start with 277 and can go upwards of 500, for the investment of 30 attribute points? You can argue 50 mana is a lot, but my point was 30 attribute points is a lot (more than most bonus rolls) and the payoff isn't there.

I don't have any npcs, and my party is lvl 8 and 9. My casters would all love to have 50 mana points as they all have 100-150 at most (going off of memory when trying to cast a raise dead spell). 50 more would be close to or a 50% increase for the 3 mana heavy catsers (counting my bard here along with my 2 DDs). Two of my other guys cast spells but I just use them to autoheal once in a while.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
I just read that the amount mana you get on LEVELUP depends on the amount of mana you ROLLED in character creation. If you rolled 4 mana at creation, you won't get more than 4 mana on levelups. This seems to be class dependent, eg. a Sage can roll something like 4-18 mana in creation.

This may still be influenced by attributes like DEV, eg. a higher roll is more probable with higher DEV.

Judging by my various savescums I don't think this is true.

So what do you think is true?

I also disagree. I never really saw or noticed my mp on character creation, but I know if I save scum my casters can get 18 mana. Maybe they did both start with exactly 18, and they are the same race, but I'm having a hard time believing this. I usually give up on getting 18 and will settle for anything if the hp increase is good and the skills too. It could be true but I am just having a hard time swallowing it.
 

Rpguy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,168
Pathfinder: Wrath
Can you create a male drake metalsmith and check if the lethal blow skill flag is on or off? I saw someone complain about it and I have the same issue.

Interesting that you ask. I have a male drake metalsmith in my party (running since 1.02 or 01 even), and he does have lethal blow. However, I don't remember it ever rising from use. My berserkers and ranger maxed it forever ago, and the smith it stuck at 38, only raising it on levelups.

Yeah that is the problem, the skill is there but I don't think it is active, did you ever see your metalsmith perform a lethal blow?
 

Rpguy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,168
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah it looks like there is no way to get ninjutsu. It might be the character editor being weird, but changing to Assassin won't make it show up in your nor will gaining a level in assassin. Even if you put points into ninjutsu in the editor. I guess right now the only real reason to be an assassin is to get Necro spells. Very little reason to be assassin over pure ranger.

It's not the editor. Editor won't show you skills in game even if you put points into it (in the editor), if you haven't learned or acquired that skill in game you won't see the skill or your changes, in game.

Zep--

What happens if I put points into Ninjutsu before I switched the guy to Assassin?

Nothing, the skill it flagged as OFF until something in game triggers it on.

I believe all those skills for the special classes are broken.

Zep--

Can you create a male drake metalsmith and check if the lethal blow skill flag is on or off? I saw someone complain about it and I have the same issue.

Took a Drake Metalsmith all the way to level 25, learned a few new skills, but never Lethal Blow.

Learned 1 new spell every level starting at 6.

So, if you are supposed to get/learn Lethal Blow at some point, I guess it's broken.

Zep--

What do you mean? metalsmiths begin with that skill at level 1 ( It just doesn't do anything as far as I can tell )
 

gestalt11

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
629
I just read that the amount mana you get on LEVELUP depends on the amount of mana you ROLLED in character creation. If you rolled 4 mana at creation, you won't get more than 4 mana on levelups. This seems to be class dependent, eg. a Sage can roll something like 4-18 mana in creation.

This may still be influenced by attributes like DEV, eg. a higher roll is more probable with higher DEV.

Judging by my various savescums I don't think this is true.

So what do you think is true?


I have seen various classes get as high at 20 even when they started at 4. Pretty sure I saw my berserker roll a 10 and he started with 1 I think
 

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual
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Mar 23, 2013
Messages
5,233
What do you mean? metalsmiths begin with that skill at level 1 ( It just doesn't do anything as far as I can tell )

I made a lvl 1 drake warrior, then in the editor, i changed the profession to metalsmith.

So you must have to roll one naturally to get the skill.

I'll unlock the skill on a new char tomorrow and try again.

Zep--
 

Winslow

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Oct 25, 2012
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30
Yeah that is the problem, the skill is there but I don't think it is active, did you ever see your metalsmith perform a lethal blow?
Critical strikes only seem to trigger when you have both lethalblow skill and are using a *lethal* weapon, metalsmiths start with a hammer and none of the blunt weapons seem to have *lethal* tags.
 

Brood_Star

Novice
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
26
Magic on level up is entirely random, based on your starting class/maybe race too, with a small impact from DEV. e.g. Let's say a Sage can get a maximum of 18-20 Magic on a levelup, then every few 3-5 points in DEV will add +1 to that cap.

Also considering how reliant you are on Lethal Blow, while unarmed and Iron Hands/Powerstrike (the Assassin skill you get from the Sanctuary start) seemed like the best for damage output, you also cannot trigger Lethal Blow without a lethal weapon, so another set of skill trees that are perhaps not that useful... even if they were working properly.

I'm also wondering whether editing in "hidden" skills works. What I mean by that is when you change a skill that a character cannot learn naturally, it does not appear in the skills bar. This would be trivial to test with Lethal Blow, one of the only skills with a noticeable impact, but I'm way too lazy at the moment.

EDIT: Pulling info from 4chan (yeah yeah), see third post for more info on DEV

1502413402132.png


even more disheartening that it doesn't add to the roll and only adds to the max
 
Last edited:

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
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Mar 23, 2013
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5,233
I'm also wondering whether editing in "hidden" skills works. What I mean by that is when you change a skill that a character cannot learn naturally, it does not appear in the skills bar.

Once unlocked (in the the test version of DECLINE, soon to come), the skills do appear in game in the skills bar. 1 char can have all 49 skills, if you want them.

Once unlocked, I'm *pretty sure* they work as normal as you use that skill.

Zep--
 

Brood_Star

Novice
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Aug 3, 2017
Messages
26
I was waiting for the DECLINE update to continue with my playthrough. Looking forward to it
 

Zep Zepo

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I was waiting for the DECLINE update to continue with my playthrough. Looking forward to it

The thing holding it up is...making sure the skills go into the right category (Martial, Physical, Mental) after unlocking. Currently I have to do this by hand...so..it takes a while :)

Zep--
 

Zep Zepo

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I don't *think* the categories matter in game...when I first had all the skills unlocked I just put them all into Martial and they seemed to work just fine.

But, I want to get them into the correct categories anyway.

Zep--
 

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
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BTW, My hacked Drake Metalsmith was using a *Lethal* Zwiehander. Never saw a skill-up in lethal blow. Tomorrow when I unlock lethal blow I will test that more.

Zep--
 

Rpguy

Arcane
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Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,168
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah that is the problem, the skill is there but I don't think it is active, did you ever see your metalsmith perform a lethal blow?
Critical strikes only seem to trigger when you have both lethalblow skill and are using a *lethal* weapon, metalsmiths start with a hammer and none of the blunt weapons seem to have *lethal* tags.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/650670/discussions/0/1471967615870229890/#c1471967615870402298
No, you'd still get the one shot at striking a lethal blow on the monster. Either/or triggers the lethal blow check.

Cleve says the skill or a weapon is enough. So it seems bugged. You should be able to lethal things even with your starting hammer.
 
Last edited:

Zep Zepo

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Well, I don't know how *rare* it's supposed to trigger, by my stats page says I killed 200 monsters and I never had a lethal blow with the drake metalsmith

Zep--
 

Winslow

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Oct 25, 2012
Messages
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My metalsmith is getting criticals just fine with Caliburnus. With a non-lethal weapon it never happens, just as it never happens with a lethal weapon on my warrior who obviously has no lethalblow.
 

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