Grey Goo - Now wobbling on your Hard Drive

[Lyric Suite]

Also, I just can't beat the last mission.
Wtf? Even one enemy would be hard but here you fight two full on AND have to maintain control of hard to defend points with no defensive structures available? This mission was meant to be played with another faction, honestly.
You just can't hold positions as the Goo.
Even worse, I thought it would be a good idea to take out the defenders.
Well, yeah. Guess what, their super weapon still spawns, even if they have no more units on the map. IT IS RIDICULOUS. I liked the challenging campaign so far, but this is beyond challenging, it is simply too hard. I guess I won't even try reducing difficulty to normal and just go straight to easy, because I'm totally pissed at this.

Too bad i'm too poor to buy the game at full price or i'll show you how its done. Fucking scrubs.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Somebody please Gift Lyric Suite a copy of the game so that he can show us how it's properly done.

 

[Branm]

Is this worth leeching???

 

[Cyberarmy]

Also, I just can't beat the last mission.
Wtf? Even one enemy would be hard but here you fight two full on AND have to maintain control of hard to defend points with no defensive structures available? This mission was meant to be played with another faction, honestly.
You just can't hold positions as the Goo.
Even worse, I thought it would be a good idea to take out the defenders.
Well, yeah. Guess what, their super weapon still spawns, even if they have no more units on the map. IT IS RIDICULOUS. I liked the challenging campaign so far, but this is beyond challenging, it is simply too hard. I guess I won't even try reducing difficulty to normal and just go straight to easy, because I'm totally pissed at this.

You need good use of Dwellers, Crescents and Bastions in that mission. Also 1-2 Mother Goo's at the points for slowing down the attackers helps. Destucters just die too quick to be efective, small cannon fodders are better in defence.
I agree about epic unit spawn pure bullshit (or a bug maybe?), those things are at least slow and slowing them with goo makes them perfect targets for Crescents.

 

[Volrath]

Is this worth leeching???

It's worth buying.

Faggot.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

I'll likely buy this after they patch out the performance quirks and 50% off. The videos I watched gave me a strong, nostalgic Westwoodian vibe.

 

[thesheeep]

Also, I just can't beat the last mission.
Wtf? Even one enemy would be hard but here you fight two full on AND have to maintain control of hard to defend points with no defensive structures available? This mission was meant to be played with another faction, honestly.
You just can't hold positions as the Goo.
Even worse, I thought it would be a good idea to take out the defenders.
Well, yeah. Guess what, their super weapon still spawns, even if they have no more units on the map. IT IS RIDICULOUS. I liked the challenging campaign so far, but this is beyond challenging, it is simply too hard. I guess I won't even try reducing difficulty to normal and just go straight to easy, because I'm totally pissed at this.

Too bad i'm too poor to buy the game at full price or i'll show you how its done. Fucking scrubs.

I'm not claiming to be a great RTS player. I'm not
Also, the spawning-despite-destroyed epic is just a giant dick in your face and that is design I do not like in these games.

You need good use of Dwellers, Crescents and Bastions in that mission. Also 1-2 Mother Goo's at the points for slowing down the attackers helps. Destucters just die too quick to be efective, small cannon fodders are better in defence.
I agree about epic unit spawn pure bullshit (or a bug maybe?), those things are at least slow and slowing them with goo makes them perfect targets for Crescents.

Yes, good ideas. I will try this again on normal difficulty. I definitely won't try again on hard
I find dwellers to be super annoying to use, though. I like that in this game units don't have special abilities because that means no microing+hotkey hell. But dwellers always require precise positioning of each unit. Also, spending a large protean on a unit that is pretty much just a mine feels like a waste.
But maybe they are damaging enough to justify that.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Don't dwellers reassemble themselves after detonating? That's what it said on the Grey Goo site.
There's supposed to be an upgrade that causes dwellers to split off into 2 small blobs as well.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I'm not claiming to be a great RTS player. I'm not
Also, the spawning-despite-destroyed epic is just a giant dick in your face and that is design I do not like in these games.

You should try Dark Reign. The last mission in that game was the most ludicrous thing ever. But the feeling of succeeding in the end was awesome.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Yes, good ideas. I will try this again on normal difficulty. I definitely won't try again on hard
I find dwellers to be super annoying to use, though. I like that in this game units don't have special abilities because that means no microing+hotkey hell. But dwellers always require precise positioning of each unit. Also, spending a large protean on a unit that is pretty much just a mine feels like a waste.
But maybe they are damaging enough to justify that.

Dwellers got an upgrade that gives you 2 small proteans after they explode. anything survives the first damage "merges" with the Goo Quite good way to zerg the enemy. I actually never used them without that upgrade so not sure what happens about normal detonation.



I'm dissapointed about the air forces in this game general, air defences are really easy/cheap to build which leads to quick death for fliers. And they are not cheap/easy. Human bombers get destroyed quickly and you really need a large a number of them to be effective. Beta bombers have some good AoE damage potantial with upgrades but they are damn slow and you are luck if 1-2 of them survives a basic air defences.
This also effect Goo's powerfull artillery unit, the Crescent. They are goddamn powerful and can melt unsuspecting armies in seconds but their slow projectile can be hit by air defences. Just like V3 rockets in RA2 but much slower in speed.

Edit: About the Purger, epic unit of the Goo. It is the least powerful of them but you can build it much faster than the Hand and the Alpha. It is also faster thanks to its mobility over terrain, its attacks are a bit hard to land on moving targets though so best used against base structures and just move over small enemy units.

 

[thesheeep]

This also effect Goo's powerfull artillery unit, the Crescent. They are goddamn powerful and can melt unsuspecting armies in seconds but their slow projectile can be hit by air defences. Just like V3 rockets in RA2 but much slower in speed.

There is an update that makes the Crescent projectiles untargetable by anti air, but also weaker.
I can somewhat understand the reasoning behind that. After all, Goo has no air, but the others need a reason to still build anti air or would have an advantage due to not having to use a part of their army at all.

Edit: About the Purger, epic unit of the Goo. It is the least powerful of them but you can build it much faster than the Hand and the Alpha.

If with "faster" you mean sooner, yes.
If with "faster" you really mean "shorter build time", then only a yes, but ... since that requires you to put all your eco into the Purger, meaning you can no longer produce normal units at a useful rate.

In multiplayer, I could imagine that being very risky. At the same time, building the epic unit for Humans or Beta is not risky at all. Just a slight minus on your resource rate.

Finished the final mission... finally.

That is one bad design monster of a mission:

• Instead of doing what your race is good at for a final, epic fight (hell, yeah!), you have to do what your race totally sucks at (defending, in this case).
• Defending missions always suck. I did not find them fun in any game, ever. It is slightly better in RTS games as you build bases there, anyway. Except if you play the Goo... :/
  
• Epic units of enemy factions spawn despite the factions being destroyed*.
• In the end, the side missions become mandatory anyway (what's the point, then, in being optional?).
• As soon as you enable the counter, enemy units spawn out of nowhere. This must be impossible without having destroyed the defenders first. I could barely manage on normal using lots of Bastions.
  
• You have to hold control of the goals with certain units. These units can accidentally be moved in the heat of battle (to attack something, for example). They should become static and immovable to avoid that.
• If you lose contact with a goal for only a second (either due to your unit being destroyed or accidentally moved, see above), the counter is cancelled and you have to begin COMPLETELY from the beginning of the counter.

Also, the Purger is not even capable of shooting back when attacked. Wtf.

So, after finally beating the game, I can still recommend it. Just save yourself some sanity and play the final mission on easy until some issues are fixed.

About the ending:

Spoiler

I really hate it if games that might never get a sequel end that openly...

*I found out that is probably really a bug. The optional mission to destroy them being fulfilled has no impact on the epic units. It seems, though, that if you really destroy the others completely - as in, not even walls left standing - no more epics spawn. At that point, the mission becomes doable.

 

[Kane]

When your Hand of Ruk pops on the last health PIP vs. Human Epic:

At the same time, building the epic unit for Humans or Beta is not risky at all. Just a slight minus on your resource rate.

There is some considerable risk building the epic. 20/sec is not a 'slight minus' but more importantly, those 70 population is very major. That's almost half of your army. Going Epic means that you won't have a lot of troops for a full 5 minutes (or more if you overdrain) until the epic completes and afterwards that epic needs to make up for the half of your army that you're missing (it usually does).

 

[thesheeep]

There is some considerable risk building the epic. 20/sec is not a 'slight minus'

But it is. You either can afford it, in which case you are doing fine and it poses little risk. It matters little if you have a +30 rate or +10.. or +1. You want to be positive at all times as everything else slows you down far too much. A player that overdrains will never beat a player that doesn't as the latter just has to keep on the pressure and will eventually win.

Or you cannot afford it as you already are losing resources and barely scratch by. In that case, going for an epic is not risky, it is suicide.
So you either have "safe bet" or "suicide". Doesn't sound too risky to me.

but more importantly, those 70 population is very major. That's almost half of your army. Going Epic means that you won't have a lot of troops for a full 5 minutes (or more if you overdrain) until the epic completes and afterwards that epic needs to make up for the half of your army that you're missing (it usually does).

I don't really disagree, but that is the case for all races.
And that is the "only" risk you are faced with as a "base builder". Concerning epic-or-no-epic.

But I realize now that there is a choice for Goo, in contrast to other races.
You can play it safe by not feeding the Proto-Purger. It will take much longer, but you lose almost nothing (except pop, yes).
If, however, you go full feeding, you lose your entire economy.
But that is basically a slider. How much of your eco do you feed into your epic, how much is retained for fighting?
The other races don't have such a "slider"...

That seems like an advantage on Goo side.

 

[80s Stallone]

That seems like an advantage on Goo side.

Mr. Sheep, how exactly does a Human player reach the other resource fields? Is it possible to construct another base?

 

[Kane]

That seems like an advantage on Goo side.

Mr. Sheep, how exactly does a Human player reach the other resource fields? Is it possible to construct another base?

No, you simply build refineries in your base. They will automatically spawn enough probes to mine at maximum efficiency.

 

[Jaedar]

So I have now played the beta campaign.

Jesus these dudes cannot into compelling mission design. SPEND 20 MINUTES TO DEFEND BASE! Then, play popamole with the fifteen enemy hq's (that move around and replicate, because that sounds like fun). So that's about half the missions so far, kinda difficult, but only because you're basically stuck on one or two extractors with no hope of expansion. The rest have basically been, spend 2 minutes to set up base and automate production, then wait for map to finish on its own.

 

[thesheeep]

Yes, the mission design is very... conservative?
But I found that the campaign gets harder as you progress in it.

At least I found all Human and Goo missions (except maybe the very first one) to be harder than the Beta ones.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Goo's last two missions are challenging, mostly because enemies using epic units.

Spoiler

2 Hands gave me quite a trouble at the Barricade.

 

[Azrael the cat]

This also effect Goo's powerfull artillery unit, the Crescent. They are goddamn powerful and can melt unsuspecting armies in seconds but their slow projectile can be hit by air defences. Just like V3 rockets in RA2 but much slower in speed.

There is an update that makes the Crescent projectiles untargetable by anti air, but also weaker.
I can somewhat understand the reasoning behind that. After all, Goo has no air, but the others need a reason to still build anti air or would have an advantage due to not having to use a part of their army at all.

Edit: About the Purger, epic unit of the Goo. It is the least powerful of them but you can build it much faster than the Hand and the Alpha.

If with "faster" you mean sooner, yes.
If with "faster" you really mean "shorter build time", then only a yes, but ... since that requires you to put all your eco into the Purger, meaning you can no longer produce normal units at a useful rate.

In multiplayer, I could imagine that being very risky. At the same time, building the epic unit for Humans or Beta is not risky at all. Just a slight minus on your resource rate.

Finished the final mission... finally.

That is one bad design monster of a mission:

• Instead of doing what your race is good at for a final, epic fight (hell, yeah!), you have to do what your race totally sucks at (defending, in this case).
• Defending missions always suck. I did not find them fun in any game, ever. It is slightly better in RTS games as you build bases there, anyway. Except if you play the Goo... :/
  
• Epic units of enemy factions spawn despite the factions being destroyed*.
• In the end, the side missions become mandatory anyway (what's the point, then, in being optional?).
• As soon as you enable the counter, enemy units spawn out of nowhere. This must be impossible without having destroyed the defenders first. I could barely manage on normal using lots of Bastions.
  
• You have to hold control of the goals with certain units. These units can accidentally be moved in the heat of battle (to attack something, for example). They should become static and immovable to avoid that.
• If you lose contact with a goal for only a second (either due to your unit being destroyed or accidentally moved, see above), the counter is cancelled and you have to begin COMPLETELY from the beginning of the counter.

Also, the Purger is not even capable of shooting back when attacked. Wtf.

So, after finally beating the game, I can still recommend it. Just save yourself some sanity and play the final mission on easy until some issues are fixed.

About the ending:

Spoiler

I really hate it if games that might never get a sequel end that openly...

*I found out that is probably really a bug. The optional mission to destroy them being fulfilled has no impact on the epic units. It seems, though, that if you really destroy the others completely - as in, not even walls left standing - no more epics spawn. At that point, the mission becomes doable.

In multiplayer, offensive and/or fast-moving factions have a big advantage when it comes to choosing the timing and tech level of the main confrontation (and fast-moving factions have to work a lot harder to press that advantage).

 

[Cyberarmy]

People just don't know how to play against Goo yet, you have to be really agressive and always check catalyst gaysers. If you can disrupt mother goos effectively (air craft excels at this) their production stops while you can safely build tanks/mechs at your base.
Goo vs goo battles should be really interesting though

 

[thesheeep]

I just had my first MP match after beating every nation as every nation on hard (vs. AI).
Still I have no idea what nation I like to play as most...

The match was awesome.
After 5 minutes my partner left and I could hold out for 10 minutes until I was beaten.

 

[thesheeep]

Some more games later, I do have the feeling that there are some severe balancing issues.

Human teleporters are impossible to defend against on some maps.
I walled myself in with anti air (as Beta that is fairly easy) and still a force of 3 or 4 flyers could get enough sight to teleport a whopping 12 lancers in, wrecking my base. At least the main base. While you can scatter as Beta, if your main hub is down you can't build any more which pretty much means game over.
There is just nothing one could do against that.

Except not letting a player build teleporters, of course. Which is not really doable on defensive maps like the Barricades.

 

[Kane]

 

[Jaedar]

So I was almost starting to like this game, and then goo missions happened. Fuck the goo. Maybe I am totally missing the point, but it seems the only viable strategy is to camp the catalyst nodes and slowly spam units because they're so shit and so slow to build. But also the ai is totally incompetent at actually hunting you so....

 

[thesheeep]

They seem slow to build, but that impression is false. Actually, when you have 6+ Mother Goos pumping out units other factions have problems keeping up.
After playing a while, Goo does not seem THAT different from other factions. They actually have only one building - but that one can move and multiply.

The strategy of camping catalyst nodes is correct. You do get a reserve of "growing goo mass" every few seconds that allows you to move around a bit while still growing. But that reserve seems so low that it is never enough to travel between two catalyst nodes. Makes it kinda useless IMO, at least for that purpose.

You are also right about incapable hunting AI.
Even when playing the AI on skirmish on hard it does a poort job scouting and hunting.
Which is really a shame given that the online community is not exactly overflowing with players.

Actually I have heard that the online player base is region locked. And your region is determined by your Steam download server (you can change that via settings). If that is true, it is utterly stupid.