Great Game! Newbie questions . . . .

[Mr. Fed]

Long time crpg fan here (cut my teeth with Ultima II, long ago . . .) and happy to find another game that reminds me of the golden age of gameplay. I like the detail and background, the focus of the quests, and the game system so far. A few newbie gameplay/strategy questions.

Are there any skills that one should definitely take at creation or suffer later? I've tried to take each of the three magics, but it is hard to do so and wind up with an even reasonably balanced party. Also, it seems that some skills are necessary for some early quests . . . . tinker for one very early one, for example. Right now I have a Guardian with tinker and medical, a merchant with Thaum. and sword, and a Druid with missile and literacy. Am I missing out big-time by not starting with Flame magic? Or are you going to tell me that I actually have to make difficult choices? :>)

(very minor spoiler) I've met the hunter in the first inn and tried to train with him; it seems he only trains up those skills one already has. Have I just not figured it out?

All in all, great game. It has that sense of fun and discovery that I haven't had with a commercial game for a long time . . .

 

[crpgnut]

Long time crpg fan here (cut my teeth with Ultima II, long ago . . .) and happy to find another game that reminds me of the golden age of gameplay. I like the detail and background, the focus of the quests, and the game system so far. A few newbie gameplay/strategy questions.

Are there any skills that one should definitely take at creation or suffer later? I've tried to take each of the three magics, but it is hard to do so and wind up with an even reasonably balanced party. Also, it seems that some skills are necessary for some early quests . . . . tinker for one very early one, for example. Right now I have a Guardian with tinker and medical, a merchant with Thaum. and sword, and a Druid with missile and literacy. Am I missing out big-time by not starting with Flame magic? Or are you going to tell me that I actually have to make difficult choices? :>)

(very minor spoiler) I've met the hunter in the first inn and tried to train with him; it seems he only trains up those skills one already has. Have I just not figured it out?

All in all, great game. It has that sense of fun and discovery that I haven't had with a commercial game for a long time . . .

Nature is a definite need. If you don't have someone with that you're kinda screwed in some areas. This game does have several NPCs that will join you, so you could build
up the skills you are missing with those characters. Flame magic is not necessary, but
it's nice to have. You could create a hermit character and give him both thaumaturgy and gifs of the goddess. Combat skills don't need to be chosen at the beginning of the game.
Just equip a weapon and start using it all the time and the skill will grow of its own accord. Combat skills do make things a little easier in the beginning though, so it's up to you. Tinker, medical, nature, literacy, all have roles to play. Music is not necessary, but
there are quests that you will miss if noone has it. You don't get a Flame magic npc for quite some time so you may want to go back and create one if you want it.

The Hunter will only train someone who is not totally incompetent. If you can go out of town and fight a few encounters with a bow equipped, your skill may raise to level one.
Then you could train with the hunter and he'd raise your skill 3-5 points depending on your character's intelligence. Intelligence governs how quickly all characters learn skills.
If you're as dumb as a rock, you'll never learn skills by doing, only by training. Don't lower intelligence much on anyone. I'd never drop it below 10 for any character. 15 or higher makes a HUGE difference. My 18 intelligence Flame mage has almost twice as many skill points as my 12 intelligence merchant.

 

[thathmew]

I'm just going to pretty much agree with 'nut here. Personally I like flame a lot but you can do without it and generally you should eventually be able to find an NPC to fill any roles you lack. There's an early NPC who's capable of being trained in all the non-combat skill and you should be able to get her before leaving kellen. Lots of trainers won't train you if you don't have a skill, or don't have it at a decent level.
And finally Medical is fairly important because of the healing after combat.
Music is being bumped a little to provide a slightly better income stream in the next version.
Intelligence is going to affect advancement of combat skills slightly less in the next version as well, but only slightly.
'sall, hope you keep enjoying it, it always warms my heart to here it referenced in the same sentence as Ultima.

cheers,
-mat

 

[Mr. Fed]

Thanks for the answers. Actually, I kind of like tha fact that you have to make hard choices, and you can't start with all skills.

Aside from magic, are all skills learnable by doing? Can I pick up tinkering, for example, just by futzing around with something?

Another question: I understand that the degree of detail in your journal is dependant on intelligence and literacy skill. Is that why hints spoken by NPCs in idle chat (like who is seen sneaking out of town in what direction and when) don't show up in the journal for me? or are such hints simply never included in the journal?

 

[HanoverF]

When I started Flame was kinda broken, and I didn't see much need for a Druid or thaumwhateverist, and made it through fairly easily, but eventually I met a druid who insisted they join, they pretty much just stand around during combat, heh.

Right now I'm going through with a Thaum trained in speech and barter, a Hunter, and a Guardian with pickpocket (Damn klepto). This gives me speech, barter, lit and lore, tinker, nature, stealth, and a early NPC addition covers medical.

I *think* only combat skills are trainable by doing, theres not anything I've found that you can pick up and tinker with to train, same with lit and lore, nature, stealth.

 

[Jed]

So if I have a character in my original party who does have high int & lit, does she have to be the leader to affect journal entries?

J

 

[thathmew]

No, journal entries are considered a "party-wide" activity so it will always use the best lit and best intelligence and they don't have to be in the same person, i.e. its assumed the party members are discussing things among themselves before they are written down.
And _most_ other skills do also improve with use, but generally speaking more slowly than combat skills.

-mat

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

When making a party, there's a number of considerations.

1.) Healing! You're going to need this.

MEDICAL is one of the more vital skills, IMHO, since it allows you to do more fighting without resting or relying on GIFTS OF GODDESS. In some places, you just can't rest, so you're going to rely on this skill quite a bit since it recovers hitpoints for everyone and doesn't take rest points.

I'd also consider GIFTS OF GODDESS to be really important in the beginning and close to the end, but it's not really that important in the middle of the game.

2.) Fighting! When Bandits Attack.

While others have said that you can simply train this up to decent levels, it's pretty much a good idea to have someone in your party that can do it from the beginning. I'd get someone with a at least one level of an attacking skill in your party. Let them be your enforcer type.

POLEARM is good for striking at a range of two, so it's good to have for people in the back. AXE also had a few weapons with a range of two as well. Have people with SWORD, BLUNT, and DAGGER in the front, and the longer ranged melee behind them as a general rule, so I'd go with SWORD, AXE, BLUNT, or DAGGER as your pick for your enforcer character.

ARMOR doesn't seem to be that important yet, but it will be once the speed penalties are enforced.

3.) MAGIC!

As stated in the healing section, GIFTS OF GODDESS is highly important. As others have said, FLAME MAGIC is nice, but no big deal if you don't have it. I've beaten the game without it. If you like combat magic, fireballs and things of that nature, it's good to have.

THAUMATURGY can be picked up in the game, so you don't need to start with it. Just visit The Academy, with some money, and you can buy this ability, basically.

4.) Most everything else!

NATURE is useful for a few quests and for avoiding those encounters. It's basically a must in the game, if for no other reason than quests that require it.

SPEECH is a requirement as well. Be sure to have someone with a decent skill at this.

LITERACY & LORE is useful in a lot of areas. It's required for a few side quests as well.

TINKER is mainly for lock picking, it's not the most useful skill as there aren't many locks in the game. However, there are dungeons where this is required for additional loot.

PICKPOCKET is just there for extra loot as well. Not required anywhere.

BARTER isn't really required either, I don't think, but it's useful for keeping what little money you have in the game, and making more money from sales.

 

[HanoverF]

Tinker is also for trap (detection?) deactivation, tho there aren't too many traps that I've encountered.

One little nit I'd like to pick, certain skill teachers seem to need the character to have the speech skill AND the skill they train, others will let you switch to the member to teach, or just train the whole party and whoever has the skill gets the boost, those seem much better ways to handle it.

 

[thathmew]

PICKPOCKET is just there for extra loot as well. Not required anywhere.

It can also be used as an alternative to solve some quests, a lot of people actually do have quest specific items on them you can pick. We rarely point the player in this direction as a possible method, but it is there sometimes.

cheers,
-mat