Great article from an unlikely place.

[Data4]

Massively.com of all places.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/04/20/stick-and-rudder-on-crowdfunding-entitlement-and-dev-abuse/

Choice parts:

When a triple-A dev like former BioWare writer Jennifer Hepler says that "games cost much too much money to focus on a niche market" and that "to survive, they need to be such a broadly popular part of entertainment culture that you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't play games," she is inviting internet vitriol from the very people who made her industry successful and provided her with a job.

It's kind of a "duh" moment. I mean, really, should fans who are being marginalized by the industry's mass-market leanings simply smile and take the erosion of their pastime lying down?

More importantly, Hepler's statement is patently false -- or at least myopic -- as Star Citizen is showing us. Maybe BioWare's games "cost much too much money to focus on a niche market," and maybe that's because BioWare is doing it wrong and is a prime example of the sort of over-staffed and over-produced game development that needs to go away.

Why was BioWare, for example, unable to deliver an MMO with half of Star Citizen's feature set on nearly four times its budget? Now, you're right in thinking that Star Wars: The Old Republic and SC are vastly different MMOs. And that's my point. Star Citizen is going to have a fully voiced, story-driven campaign (Squadron 42), but it's also going to have sprawling, free-form sandbox play and all of the associated virtual world sticky stuff that SWTOR lacks. And oh yeah, actual space combat, too!

Maybe it's not so impossible to make a triple-A game with a relatively small budget? We'll find out when SC releases.

 

[DragoFireheart]

If name-brand studios truly can't make big games on reasonable budgets anymore, then Star Citizen, crowdfunding, and these sorts of supporters are the future of triple-A games. Or maybe there's some sort of modern day video game crash on the horizon as the industry swells with would-be devs. I can't predict the future with any certainty, but one thing I do know is that making triple-A games is a privilege. Not everyone gets to do it, and if a title such as Star Citizen comes along and manages to be triple-A on a fraction of a triple-A budget, well, that just calls into question the competence of everyone else.

Ouch.

 

[pakoito]

So this article is founded on the basis that SC will deliver.

Posting in epic thread.

 

[Drax]

Compared to Bioware's derps? It will be glorious.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Compared to Bioware's derps? It will be glorious.

Don't set that bar too high!

 

[DalekFlay]

So this article is founded on the basis that SC will deliver.

Perhaps a better comparison would be Dragon Age 2 and Skyrim. I posted a lot on Bioware's forums in the lead-up to Dragon Age 2 and heard all of Bioware's bullshit direct from their developers' mouths about how you HAVE to make these concessions, you HAVE to have voiced PC dialog and cinematic presentation, you HAVE to make it feel like a movie, and on and on and on. Whatever you might think of Skyrim it's a video game first, not a movie, and it blew Dragon Age 2 out of the fucking water sales wise. There isn't even comparison there, Skyrim is the Empire State Building of sales compared to Dragon Age 2's bagel shop. Completely different leagues.

Video games sell better. Minecraft, Skyrim, Everquest and early days WoW, Nintendo's shit and on and on down the line. People want their video games to play like video games. It even applies to mobile shit.

 

[DraQ]

So this article is founded on the basis that SC will deliver.

Perhaps a better comparison would be Dragon Age 2 and Skyrim. I posted a lot on Bioware's forums in the lead-up to Dragon Age 2 and heard all of Bioware's bullshit direct from their developers' mouths about how you HAVE to make these concessions, you HAVE to have voiced PC dialog and cinematic presentation, you HAVE to make it feel like a movie, and on and on and on. Whatever you might think of Skyrim it's a video game first, not a movie, and it blew Dragon Age 2 out of the fucking water sales wise. There isn't even comparison there, Skyrim is the Empire State Building of sales compared to Dragon Age 2's bagel shop. Completely different leagues.

Video games sell better. Minecraft, Skyrim, Everquest and early days WoW, Nintendo's shit and on and on down the line. People want their video games to play like video games. It even applies to mobile shit.

This.
Bugs, broken mechanics and horribly misguided attempts at epic questlines notwithstanding, Skyrim is unmistakeably a game, meant to be played and interacted with.
If I wanted to watch a movie I wouldn't be playing a fucking game (same with reading novels, but ).

 

[Kane]

Massively.com of all places.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/04/20/stick-and-rudder-on-crowdfunding-entitlement-and-dev-abuse/

Choice parts:

When a triple-A dev like former BioWare writer Jennifer Hepler says that "games cost much too much money to focus on a niche market" and that "to survive, they need to be such a broadly popular part of entertainment culture that you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't play games," she is inviting internet vitriol from the very people who made her industry successful and provided her with a job.

It's kind of a "duh" moment. I mean, really, should fans who are being marginalized by the industry's mass-market leanings simply smile and take the erosion of their pastime lying down?

More importantly, Hepler's statement is patently false -- or at least myopic -- as Star Citizen is showing us. Maybe BioWare's games "cost much too much money to focus on a niche market," and maybe that's because BioWare is doing it wrong and is a prime example of the sort of over-staffed and over-produced game development that needs to go away.

Why was BioWare, for example, unable to deliver an MMO with half of Star Citizen's feature set on nearly four times its budget? Now, you're right in thinking that Star Wars: The Old Republic and SC are vastly different MMOs. And that's my point. Star Citizen is going to have a fully voiced, story-driven campaign (Squadron 42), but it's also going to have sprawling, free-form sandbox play and all of the associated virtual world sticky stuff that SWTOR lacks. And oh yeah, actual space combat, too!

Maybe it's not so impossible to make a triple-A game with a relatively small budget? We'll find out when SC releases.

I wonder why you think Star Citizen is an unrivaled success-story when it in fact smells like a scam? I already asked this, but when it takes $200 mio to produce a piece of shit like TOR, why does SC keep on milking via KS instead of partnering with a publisher like Obsidian did for PoE? Who seriously believes that $43 mio or whatever it is at now is a sensible amount of dollars for a game? And their CEO is a fucking millionaire to begin with. What obligation do these people have to deliver on anything? Or not just deliver something worth $500k and spend the remaining $42,5 mio on lavish parties, laptops and mansions in a faux-medieval style?
Yeah sure, you need all that money for "sandbox" and "sprawling world", whatever that even fucking means.

 

[Turjan]

I wonder why you think Star Citizen is an unrivaled success-story when it in fact smells like a scam?

The answer is in your sentence: For all we know, it's a successful scam

 

[Trash]

Scam? Roberts always liked pushing the envelope and has had pretty much the exact same sales pitch for every game he ever worked on. Big, bigger, biggest. Origin didn't have the whole 'we build worlds' tagline for nothing. Thing is, he has also delivered most of the time.

And a fun article. Only weakness is indeed that it uses a game for an example that isn't even out yet.

 

[Turjan]

And a fun article. Only weakness is indeed that it uses a game for an example that isn't even out yet.

Which is a bit of a problem. The article makes all the right noises, but choosing this example makes it fall flat on its nose.

 

[RK47]

So this article is founded on the basis that SC will deliver.

Posting in epic thread.

Yep. I too would like to watch it deliver the lulz.

 

[RK47]

What obligation do these people have to deliver on anything?

Shut up and buy muh ships.

 

[Data4]

And a fun article. Only weakness is indeed that it uses a game for an example that isn't even out yet.

Which is a bit of a problem. The article makes all the right noises, but choosing this example makes it fall flat on its nose.

Well, to be fair, the article is one of the weekly ones done in their Star Citizen section, "Stick and Rudder", and it was written as a comment on some of the reactions following the PAX presentation.

I am a fan, but even I can see that presentation was a mess.

 

[Kane]

Scam? Roberts always liked pushing the envelope and has had pretty much the exact same sales pitch for every game he ever worked on. Big, bigger, biggest. Origin didn't have the whole 'we build worlds' tagline for nothing. Thing is, he has also delivered most of the time.

Superlatives may work as a sales pitch and for the marketing department, but what the fuck does he need $43 million for? The whole process becomes incredibly in-transparent for the sums of moneys that are in the game. Obsidian did the sensible thing and called in a publisher before the sum grew too big.

There are different degrees of 'delivery', and I'd like to see that game that you, without batting an eye, declare 'worth $43 mio'.

 

[Trash]

I'd like to see that game that you, without batting an eye, declare 'worth $43 mio'.

Me too. Sure, it's a lot of money. This is also a proven name in the industry who is showing more and more impressive looking content. To call it a scam is baseless. To then go and talk about how no game is worth such a budget is something else entirely. Or do you 'demand' transparancy in how they actually spend the money? And what the fuck is it with your hard-on for a publisher's input? Remember why pc gaming went down the shitter in the first place? Yeah, marketing and suits mofo.

So what is it?

 

[Infinitron]

I am puzzled by raw's eagerness to "call in a publisher".

"It's a scam, Star Citizen won't deliver!" Okay...

"...so call in a publisher!" Uh, what? How does that follow?

(Actually I'm not puzzled, I remember that weird conversation we had a year or so ago where raw white-knighted publishers up the ass.)

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm assuming he means a publisher would ensure all the money was spent on the game, would push for a release, etc. etc. One could argue Double Fine needed a publisher to slap them on the ass with their kickstarted adventure game to prevent overspending and too grand a vision. Not sure I agree with this because publisher bring with them a whole other set of problems, but I am assuming that's what raw is generally getting at. "It's a scam because there is no accountability! Publisher bosses will hold them accountable!" and so on.

I don't see any sign of Star Citizen being mismanaged and needing a daddy figure to crack the whip, but then I'm not following it closely either.

 

[Turjan]

I'm assuming he means a publisher would ensure all the money was spent on the game, would push for a release, etc.

Sounds reasonable. They would reserve $40 million for marketing and game journo parties, plus a little something for themselves, to make sure the game is a success.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm assuming he means a publisher would ensure all the money was spent on the game, would push for a release, etc.

Sounds reasonable. They would reserve $40 million for marketing and game journo parties, plus a little something for themselves, to make sure the game is a success.

Yeah I was more explaining his viewpoint than advocating it. While some outfits aren't disciplined enough without a publisher I think the answer to that is culling them from the herd, rather than asking publisher daddies to come in and sort the industry out.

 

[SuicideBunny]

More importantly, Hepler's statement is patently false -- or at least myopic -- as Star Citizen is showing us. Maybe BioWare's games "cost much too much money to focus on a niche market," and maybe that's because BioWare is doing it wrong and is a prime example of the sort of over-staffed and over-produced game development that needs to go away.

better late than never, i guess.

 

[chestburster]

Perhaps a better comparison would be Dragon Age 2 and Skyrim.

... sales wise.

But Skyrim's sale is large because it is the ONLY open-world sandbox RPG out there. People want to mess around putting buckets on NPC's heads, and Skyrim is the ONLY triple-A RPG that allows them to do it. Skyrim has no competition.

Dragon Age 2 should be compared to Witcher 2, which is based on the exact same formula as DA2, only executed ten times better.

 

[Athelas]

But Skyrim's sale is large because it is the ONLY open-world sandbox RPG out there. People want to mess around putting buckets on NPC's heads, and Skyrim is the ONLY triple-A RPG that allows them to do it. Skyrim has no competition.

Dragon Age 2 should be compared to Witcher 2.

Dragon Age is arguably the only AAA party-based wRPG.

 

[Lemming42]

But Skyrim's sale is large because it is the ONLY open-world sandbox RPG out there. People want to mess around putting buckets on NPC's heads, and Skyrim is the ONLY triple-A RPG that allows them to do it. Skyrim has no competition.

Exactly - Bethesda found a winning (in terms of sales and popularity, at least) formula and they've been running with it since Oblivion, which has led them to success. Rather than trying to find an equally successful formula of their own, or even doing what everyone else does and ripping off a winning formula, Bioware insist on making crappy movie-esque games, where the (badly written, usually badly voice acted) movie elements subtract from the gameplay, leaving the actual gameplay as something that nobody would want to play.

 

[DalekFlay]

Exactly - Bethesda found a winning (in terms of sales and popularity, at least) formula and they've been running with it since Oblivion, which has led them to success. Rather than trying to find an equally successful formula of their own, or even doing what everyone else does and ripping off a winning formula, Bioware insist on making crappy movie-esque games, where the (badly written, usually badly voice acted) movie elements subtract from the gameplay, leaving the actual gameplay as something that nobody would want to play.

And then insisting these movie puppets are the ONLY way to make money in the RPG genre.