Incline Good Shooters and Why!

[Cadmus]

Max Payne 3 owns, if you kids are scared of a few cutscenes, you deserve to miss out on the gameplay.

 

[Astral Rag]

a few cutscenes

http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=5739

 

[Carrion]

..is Max Payne 1". I presume part of your message got lost there.

Max Payne 2 called and asked why you like bullet-sponge enemies, fully scripted AI and lackluster death animations so much in your shooter when you could have a game without those things.

 

[Grimwulf]

Throwing in some stuff that wasn't mentioned.

1. Clive Barker's Jericho.

Spoiler

The main chars and key mechanic (partial mind-control of your squad members) are amazing. The plot is solid and atmospheric. I never replayed it like I used to replay classics (Blood, Quake, Shadow Warrior), but that one-time experience was very memorable. Also, can't remember any other game that lets you kill children-crusaders.

2. Condemned 2.

Spoiler

Short as fuck, but otherwise amazing. The parts where you have to play criminologist are the best, I'd love to see more of them. Other original ideas and mechanics are also there, but once again - the game is unforgivably short.

3. The Suffering.

Spoiler

Dynamic little game, somewhat similiar to Max Payne 1 in terms of mechanics. The writing in this game is pure art, especially monologues of spirits that haunt the protagonist. Played it countless times back when it was released. Would play again. The sequel is solid, but the magic of the first part was gone for me.

That's it, methinks.

Spoiler

No, I am totally normal person. Why do you ask?

 

[Hobo Elf]

Doom 1 & 2, Heretic, Hexen 1 & 2, Marathon, Blood, Duke 3D, Quake 1 (altho recently played this and Doom I've come to realize that Quake is pathetically dull compared to its predecessor series). Nothing else jumps to mind immediately, those are my all time favorites.

 

[DraQ]

Doom 1 & 2, Heretic, Hexen 1 & 2, Marathon, Blood, Duke 3D, Quake 1 (altho recently played this and Doom I've come to realize that Quake is pathetically dull compared to its predecessor series). Nothing else jumps to mind immediately, those are my all time favorites.

Q1 is more atmospheric and differs in the gameplay.

If you want dull, play Q2.

 

[dunno lah]

One thing I know for certain is that the Dooms, Quakes and Duke3d are pretty boring if played on their Normal difficulties. A good shooter must be able to kill me at least 7 times.

 

[Dayyālu]

Throwing in some stuff that wasn't mentioned.

1. Clive Barker's Jericho.


The main chars and key mechanic (partial mind-control of your squad members) are amazing. The plot is solid and atmospheric. I never replayed it like I used to replay classics (Blood, Quake, Shadow Warrior), but that one-time experience was very memorable. Also, can't remember any other game that lets you kill children-crusaders.

I have an endless amout of axes to grind against Jericho (and I have done too many rants against it in other threads, mostly because it's such a waste of a good premise). Very few things work as they should. Funnily enough, I think that Jericho could have been better if they simply gave you a set of powers and a single character, like in Undying. There is nothing that requires a "squad", in Jericho. As a shooter, it's mediocre. The atmosphere it nice, though. Would make a great setting for a P&P session.

And you could shoot children also in Prey, methinks. Ghost children, though. Prey is good. Best game that came out of the Doom3 engine.

2. Condemned 2.

Short as fuck, but otherwise amazing. The parts where you have to play criminologist are the best, I'd love to see more of them. Other original ideas and mechanics are also there, but once again - the game is unforgivably short.

Not a good shooter in any way. Nice mechanics in some regards, however.

3. The Suffering.

Dynamic little game, somewhat similiar to Max Payne 1 in terms of mechanics. The writing in this game is pure art, especially monologues of spirits that haunt the protagonist. Played it countless times back when it was released. Would play again. The sequel is solid, but the magic of the first part was gone for me.

It's more like a action survival horror. Again, the "shooting" is nothing particularly worthwile. It was TS2 that had that insane pimp boss monster? They must have left someone out of the basement for the design of that one.

 

[Grimwulf]

Funnily enough, I think that Jericho could have been better if they simply gave you a set of powers and a single character, like in Undying. There is nothing that requires a "squad", in Jericho. As a shooter, it's mediocre.

I believe it never positioned itself as a squad-based shooter. You are given all those chars with supernatural abilities for the pure taste/fun/atmosphere, not for actual tactical approach. Playing around with their abilities was mostly fun and refreshing experience.

Undying is a different thing entirely.

Not a good shooter in any way. Nice mechanics in some regards, however.

Err, why is it not a good shooter? It's corridory, sure, and melee mechanics don't work for the most part. But at least it's not popamole, and the difficulty is there. My only issue with this game is its length.

It's more like a action survival horror. Again, the "shooting" is nothing particularly worthwile.

Since people in this thread praise Max Payne 1, I'm pretty sure that Suffering fits right in. At least it has 1st person mode, that IIRC MP1 lacked. Besides, Suffering 1 isn't much of a survival, because you get plenty of health and bullets to annihilate everything around you. You don't need to hide or run.

It was TS2 that had that insane pimp boss monster? They must have left someone out of the basement for the design of that one.

Yes, it's the sequel. It felt like they were pushing the initial concept, tried to squeeze something more from it, but you can't make another Hermes. New villains were not as memorable.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Doom 1 & 2, Heretic, Hexen 1 & 2, Marathon, Blood, Duke 3D, Quake 1 (altho recently played this and Doom I've come to realize that Quake is pathetically dull compared to its predecessor series). Nothing else jumps to mind immediately, those are my all time favorites.

Q1 is more atmospheric and differs in the gameplay.

If you want dull, play Q2.

I didn't mention Q2 because of how blagh it is. Q1 isn't a bad game, but it's not nearly as good as Doom. Compared to Doom it's a boring game to look at and play. The guns in Quake suck, the environs are all dull dark colors and the monsters are similarly dull colored and blend in with environment. In Doom everything is more pronounced. The environments are colorful and interesting to look at, the monsters are a lot more varied in looks and how you engage with them, and the guns are a lot more varied and satisfying. Killing monsters in Doom is a shitton more fun as well because of their death animations. In Quake they just break apart into boring looking giblets. Install a texture mod for Doom 1 & 2 and they look much better than Quake 1.

 

[TripJack]

the doom engine games were gifts from god

the build engine games were worthy imitations of what god had made

the looking glass games and desu ex embraced heresy and tried to innovate and were good in their own ways

everything after was degenerate dogshit

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Max Payne 3 owns, if you kids are scared of a few cutscenes, you deserve to miss out on the gameplay.

Max Payne 3 had excellent and challenging gameplay, too bad it was wasted on a fucking wanna-be movie. The game has no level design to speak off, just setpieces, like every other shitty modern shooter.

It's one of the games with the most wasted potential I've ever played.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

I always found Serious Sam to be rather boring compared to something like Doom because it's always just "go to large area --> enemies swarm you --> go to next large area --> repeat", it's like being in an arena with lots of enemies rather than exploring a complex level that is filled with enemies in every corner.

Serious Sam is a modern day Robotron, it has very little in common with a design masterpiece like Doom. Only people who analyze the genre on a very superficial level group them together.

 

[The Bootymancer]

Max Payne 3 owns, if you kids are scared of a few cutscenes, you deserve to miss out on the gameplay.

Max Payne 3 had excellent and challenging gameplay, too bad it was wasted on a fucking wanna-be movie. The game has no level design to speak off, just setpieces, like every other shitty modern shooter.

It's one of the games with the most wasted potential I've ever played.

Agreed. A deeply depressing experience on a profound level.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Since OP didn't specify whether it's single-player or multiplayer, I'm gonna go ahead and suggest Insurgency for its brutal and semi-realistic approach to combat and incredible map design. Fighting 16vs16 in a city is an incredibly morally daunting experience with every virtually every meter being a killzone as map control dynamically shifts.

P.S.: Allahu Akbar

 

[DraQ]

the doom engine games were gifts from god

the build engine games were worthy imitations of what god had made

the looking glass games and desu ex embraced heresy and tried to innovate and were good in their own ways

everything after was degenerate dogshit

Get out of here stalker.

 

[DemonKing]

Doom 1 & 2, Heretic, Hexen 1 & 2, Marathon, Blood, Duke 3D, Quake 1 (altho recently played this and Doom I've come to realize that Quake is pathetically dull compared to its predecessor series). Nothing else jumps to mind immediately, those are my all time favorites.

So have you played anything that isn't around 20 years old or more? I guess Half Life was the Beginning of the End for you?

No matter what floats your boat there's been some decent stuff amongst the Max Payne series, Dark Forces/Jedi Knight, FEAR, Half-Life, Red Orchestra, Far Cry (original) etc etc come out more recently.

Even if you're just dying for the good ol' days there have been passable imitations ala Painkiller, Serious Sam, Shadow Warrior etc released.

Hordes of enemies that charge into your chain gun/saw were good for the time but not strictly necessary to make something a "good" shooter.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

The recommendations are all solid. One surprisingly good shooter that hasn't been mentioned yet is Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force. The mix of traditional shooting, a fully modeled Voyager, non-combat exploration and puzzle solving made for a very effective game. If I recall correctly, I played it through in a single sitting when I got it back in 2000. It's sequel was also worth playing, although not quite as good.

 

[Hobo Elf]

So have you played anything that isn't around 20 years old or more?

Not really to be honest. I've played a bunch of modern shooters and some of them I like, like Painkiller and Killing Floor, but mostly I've just dropped out of the whole genre. I'm not ignorant to what there is, completely, it's just that most of it I don't care for. Most of them are made for consoles and end up having crappy design because of it.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Max Payne 2 called and asked why you like bullet-sponge enemies, fully scripted AI and lackluster death animations so much in your shooter when you could have a game without those things.

Max Payne 1 called and asked what makes you enjoy the gay version of Max Payne with wonky physics and boring level design.

MP1 without slo-mo was one hell of a satisfying game. MP2? Ehh.

 

[Carrion]

Max Payne 1 called and asked what makes you enjoy the gay version of Max Payne with wonky physics and boring level design.

The physics are pretty fun, rather toned-down (meaning that objects have actual weight) and definitely not "wonky" by any computer game standard, and you need to be a pretty dull guy to not enjoy seeing a room resemble a fucking war zone after a gun fight with fallen-over furniture and bullet holes everywhere, or shooting a guy and seeing him stumble backwards and fall out of a window to the pavement a hundred feel below. Yeah, the game maybe overdoes it a bit with cardboard boxes and explosives lying around everywhere, but the goal of Max Payne is not to kill your enemies but to kill your enemies in the most spectacular way possible, and the physics let you be more creative in that regard, so it's acceptable. Ragdolls aren't always that great compared to motion-captured death animations, and they've since gone a bit stale since every game has them, but with MP1's half-a-dozen or so death animations (that were underwhelming even at the time compared to something more varied and detailed like No One Lives Forever, or something more gory like Soldier of Fortune) and MP2's ragdolls there's not even a contest. Level design is arguably better than in MP1, with more diverse positioning of enemies, more varied shootout scenes and more clever layouts to mask the 100% linear nature of the levels, although the locations themselves aren't as memorable or atmospheric as the best stuff in the first game.

MP1 is one of my all-time favorite games and I've probably finished more often than any other game, but as far as the actual shooting goes MP2 is superior with better AI, appropriately powerful weapons, more creative encounter design and more satisfying ways to kill people. I don't think it's even a matter for debate, really, because as much as I love MP1 it does have some flaws that are impossible to not notice, and MP2 pretty much fixes or at least improves on all of them.

 

[Alfons]

Max Payne 3 owns, if you kids are scared of a few cutscenes, you deserve to miss out on the gameplay.

Jesus fucking christ. If Max Payne 3 has a few cutscenes what the fuck do you consider too many cutscenes?

the doom engine games were gifts from god

Your gods are dead.

 

[Cadmus]

Ok I guess you're right it had many cutscenes. The gameplay was so good I didn't care. Besides, most of them were fun to watch for the first time. I took the game as it was and I liked it. Call me uncritical, maybe I was just happy they didn't fuck up the actual gameplay as opposed to such cancer like Hitman Absolution.

 

[Alfons]

I didn't find the gameplay anything special, but if I did, I would find the cutscenes even more shitty. If I have a game that I enjoy playing, guess what I want to do. That's right, fucking play it. The thing about the cutscenes is that not only do they take up about 30% of an actual playthrough, the spacing is completely retarded, "You played for 5 minutes, well relax, watch this for a minute". That 5 to 1 ratio is me being generous too. The other thing is that you can't fucking skip them, you probably can with a better rig, but wtf? The game runs perfectly fine, so I basically have to upgrade for a skip button option.

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

Serious Sam is a modern day Robotron, it has very little in common with a design masterpiece like Doom. Only people who analyze the genre on a very superficial level group them together.

Exactly. Still I find the Second Encounter a perfect arcade shooter where you must focus on crowd control and kill hundreds of enemies. It's simple and it is fun.

The recommendations are all solid. One surprisingly good shooter that hasn't been mentioned yet is Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force. The mix of traditional shooting, a fully modeled Voyager, non-combat exploration and puzzle solving made for a very effective game. If I recall correctly, I played it through in a single sitting when I got it back in 2000. It's sequel was also worth playing, although not quite as good.

The sequel had two romances to choose. I've always went with the alien girl. Deep Space 9 was a good game too, although it had third person perspective and used Unreal engine.