Good post on Wasteland 2 forums

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It's a pastiche and subversion, obviously, so what serious definition can there be? I mean, even if you ignore the 100% "i did it for lulz" Fallout 2, Fallout 1 still hadn't got much in the thematical coherency department and, say, retro-50 stuff - why is it singled out as if it was the main theme of the game? I mean, the very retardation of "there's no fallout without retro" - wtf? Outside of the intro, some GUI and some monster design, that theme was barely noticeable in the game and certainly no bigger than all the mad max nods going around or the whole postapocalyptic space marines business or satirizing the fantasy by introducing nuclear orcs & zombies or whatever.

It's stupid to adress fallout as if it had some grand artistic message and finely crafted setting when it, thankfully, had neither (and even all of that "vaults were teh secret project", as far as I understand, was added later by the fluff bible). Fallout was like improvisational jazz - just some guys stirring up good shit together. It was nothing to ponder on excessively, it just had good character system, good exploration and lots of decent to good small moments, as I've said, it's a pastiche made of small moments. Same can be said about F2, though moments did became lulzier so a percentage of the fans sorta disliked that. And in the third it's just about guys who stir the shit up being talentless hacks, not being able to produce anything interesting even under a threat of multiple anal rapes, so...

Very well then.
Let's mail Tim Cain & MCA and ask them if the Fallouts were meant to have well-thought-out thematic depth and consistency or if they were just a pastiche as you say.
Who knows, you might even be right

Mood and atmosphere are definitely part of the the setting.

Fundamentally, the original Fallouts were about dealing with groups of people, and exploring settlements, while Fallout 3 is about shooting monsters in the desert. You don't need a sophisticated analysis to express this difference.

"Who cares about setting, fuck setting and storyfags, and George Lucas. And that's why I'm going to spend my next two paragraphs talking about what Wasteland's setting is REALLY about."

Yeah he still fucking agrees with you you stupid fucking clown holy shit

'ohhh gosh he used the word SETTING instead of MOOD I'd better write a billion fucking words regurgitating the points he already made'

That's something David Gaider seems to forget. He and his cohorts created an expansive setting for Dragon Age, but they neglected all other aspects of their writing. As a consequence, no one has cared very much for DA's story since the initial few months after release. All that work amounted to nothing more than a bland throwaway...

I guess that post is good relative to the rest of the shit posted on those forums. There's just no point in all the discussion over there.
Just let Fargo et. all get on with what they want to make, there's going to be a beta where feedback could actually be of use

"SETTING MEANS NOTHING, WASTELAND IS ALL ABOUT SETTING."
Bloody hell.

bro the utility of open discussion there right now to sanctify those forums with the salt of monoclean discussion and lots of high level design and technical talk to ward against malevolent newshitters, to be proof against their gnarled clubs of accessibility, to be garlic and wolfsbane to their yawning fetid maws that gape for a wider audience

the price of incline is eternal vigilance

hold the line

I don't know why people have a problem with fallout 3. I never played the game and I have no problem with it whatsoever

Whee I'm on someone's ignore list, how exciting!
I'd reply with a more sensible post about how the whole point of Krellen's post, one that he explicitly stated, wasn't that setting elements should be carried over but that thematic considerations should be (which are frequently related to the setting, at least tangentially - can you imagine eg. Lord of the Flies set in the middle of New York? How about Death Wish on an uninhabited island?), but I'll assume that you're bright enough at least not to show the 'click to reveal hidden post' button so I've already wasted enough time on this topic. TTFN.

Codexian commenters are also very rare on W2 forums. Crooked Bee stopped posting and I haven't seen any other Wasteland fan from the Codex there. Most of the stuff there comes from Wasteland fans and I haven't seen many hanging around the Codex.

If I were a diehard Wasteland fan (as opposed to just a fan ), I wouldn't want to hang around at a place whose members chose DAO the game of the year of 2009 either.

Given an emphasis on storytelling, it would be theme that is most important, with everything else employed in an organic whole to develop it.

for some reason this particular post plus a glance at your avatar made me realise that the red eyes there were from a severe lack of sleep and this poor entity in the cowl really needs some shuteye