Development Info Germans give us new Fallout: New Vegas Info

[Donkey Balls]

Well, anyway, I don't think I really like the merge. Sure, original skills weren't that logical, but this isn't much better. Pigeonholing weapons by their ammo type is just silly.

Here's the way I'd do it:
Remove Small Guns/Big Guns/Energy Weapons altogether. Introduce Pistols/Rifles/Heavy Weaponry. Is shooting a laser pistol that different from shooting a 10mm one? No, it's still a handgun, why the ammo type should matter? The same with rifles, but handling a rifle is obviously different from handling a pistol, hence the two skills. And all former Big Guns and unwieldy Energy Weapons would go to Heavy Weaponry.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

How about we depreciate the repair skill. From now on, repairing small guns is determined by small guns skill, energy weapons by energy weapons, etc. Actually shooting the weapon goes by either either the highest of the three skills or some kind of algorithm that combines all three into one 'shooty' stat. Again, makes sense that shooting should be universal or at least somewhat so, you are just pointing the weapon and pulling the trigger. But maintaining the ballistic weapons is fundamentally different from maintaining the energy weapons and explosive weapons.

Problem 1: NPC's repairing weapons takes away a lot of the effect of the system.

Solution: Either decrease NPC strength at repairing weapons, or remove it entirely. Or greatly increase the cost, or something.

Problem 2: There is no longer any repair skill for random skill checks in game.

Solution: Its stupid to have an entirely different repair stat thats used only for non combat situations. You could divide repair situations into high tech and low tech for small guns and energy weapons respectively, or you could merge it into the science skill. But neither of these options are really the best, anyone else have any ideas to solve this?

Here's the way I'd do it:
Remove Small Guns/Big Guns/Energy Weapons altogether. Introduce Pistols/Rifles/Heavy Weaponry. Is shooting a laser pistol that different from shooting a 10mm one? No, it's still a handgun, why the ammo type should matter? The same with rifles, but handling a rifle is obviously different from handling a pistol, hence the two skills. And all former Big Guns and unwieldy Energy Weapons would go to Heavy Weaponry.

I've thought of a system like that, but its just horribly balanced. Even worse then small guns is now, everyone would just take rifles.

 

[Fat Dragon]

Might as well just combine everything and give us one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxjnl1yuXk

 

[Mangoose]

God, you guys are all nitpicky twats. At least think about the design philosophy behind the change, not just nitpick that rocket launchers aren't grenades Lol!!!111

The "problem," paraphrasing Sawyer, is that the skill choices, due to itemization in content, aren't intuitive. You can put points into Big Guns in FO1, but you don't get any Big Guns until late in the game. So, for a long time, a player tagging Big Guns has a useless skill.

So first off, shouldn't we discuss whether or not this is actually a problem? For example, it may be obvious in a post-apoc setting that you're not going to find rocket launchers and mini-guns lying around. So if the player knows this, then there really isn't an intuition problem.

Next, given the problem, is his solution the best? What if, instead, there were lower damage or broken down Big Guns dropped by weaker enemies, so that a player tagging Big Guns can use them at lower levels?

Nitpicking minor details because they're not "realistic" is easy. But the problem at hand is firstly a game-design one, not a realism problem.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Next, given the problem, is his solution the best? What if, instead, there were lower damage or broken down Big Guns dropped by weaker enemies, so that a player tagging Big Guns can use them at lower levels?

That does happen. In fact, some locations have a few big / energy guns lying around (some dead mercs in the tunnels with laser rifles, and Moira / the weapons seller outside megaton sell Rocket Launchers and ammo for it).

Repair is fine as it is. A player that invests in it is able to repair things on the fly and doesn't waste money, and a player that doesn't can use the npcs services.

Flamers would be better as big guns, imo. It doesn't explode, and it's not really "energy" (fire with plasma and laser? Not sure...)

 

[Donkey Balls]

Here's the way I'd do it:
Remove Small Guns/Big Guns/Energy Weapons altogether. Introduce Pistols/Rifles/Heavy Weaponry. Is shooting a laser pistol that different from shooting a 10mm one? No, it's still a handgun, why the ammo type should matter? The same with rifles, but handling a rifle is obviously different from handling a pistol, hence the two skills. And all former Big Guns and unwieldy Energy Weapons would go to Heavy Weaponry.

I've thought of a system like that, but its just horribly balanced. Even worse then small guns is now, everyone would just take rifles.

That's why you need STR requirements.

If Assault Rifles require STR6, then SMGs suddenly become more viable.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Here's the way I'd do it:
Remove Small Guns/Big Guns/Energy Weapons altogether. Introduce Pistols/Rifles/Heavy Weaponry. Is shooting a laser pistol that different from shooting a 10mm one? No, it's still a handgun, why the ammo type should matter? The same with rifles, but handling a rifle is obviously different from handling a pistol, hence the two skills. And all former Big Guns and unwieldy Energy Weapons would go to Heavy Weaponry.

I've thought of a system like that, but its just horribly balanced. Even worse then small guns is now, everyone would just take rifles.

That's why you need STR requirements.

If Assault Rifles require STR6, then SMGs suddenly become more viable.

But, assault rifles shouldn't require STR6. Even still, in the current system its not really a disadvantage since pretty much every build will have that much. There just isn't much of a stat burden currently.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That's why you need STR requirements.

If Assault Rifles require STR6, then SMGs suddenly become more viable.

That sounds nice, but I imagine people would just notice that if they put more points into STR they get to use Melee AND Rifles, so the balance would be even worse.

 

[flushfire]

yeah, if only stats were as scarce as in the originals then the merge wouldn't be that big of a deal.

btw, FO: Tactics did manage to bridge the gap somewhat by granting access to lower-end big guns earlier. they could've done just that.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

That's why you need STR requirements.

If Assault Rifles require STR6, then SMGs suddenly become more viable.

That sounds nice, but I imagine people would just notice that if they put more points into STR they get to use Melee AND Rifles, so the balance would be even worse.

STR is really not that useful for melee atm. In fallout 1/2 weapons are dealing at max 5 extra damage if you take your strength all the way to 10. In fallout 3, this is nerfed so that the difference between 5 and 10 is only 2.5 damage. Ohh and strength doesn't affect unarmed damage, only melee damage (bug? or bethtard?). Compare this to weapons that deal 50 base damage, an extra 30 damage on criticals, and critical all the time. This is something that should probably be fixed but surely won't. Converting the damage boost into a percentage would probably be the best idea.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

They need to get rid of that Intense Training perk. It's available from the first level-up, when you just have shit perks to choose. It's so unbalanced it's crazy. The bobbleheads are nothing compared to it (at least you had to find them)

btw, FO: Tactics did manage to bridge the gap somewhat by granting access to lower-end big guns earlier. they could've done just that.

This is also a good idea. We're still thinking like there can be no big guns other than miniguns, rocket launchers and flamers.

Ohh and strength doesn't affect unarmed damage, only melee damage (bug? or bethtard?)

In Fallout 3, the unarmed skill is tied to the Endurance SPECIAL stat. The player character will receive a boost of +2 points in Unarmed per level of Endurance, for a maximum boost of +20 points at 10 Endurance. Luck further raises Unarmed effectiveness by +1 points per every 2 levels (+5 Unarmed at 9 Luck).

[...]

In Fallout 3, it is not possible to target individual body parts in V.A.T.S. while unarmed, but the chance of head strikes increases with skill. Targeting with the crosshair outside of V.A.T.S enables the player to select body locations in an attempt to cripple and/or disarm.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think I'd make Unarmed a mix of Endurance and Agility, with Strenght requirements for being able to equip heavier weapons like sledgehammers.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

They need to get rid of that Intense Training perk. It's available from the first level-up, when you just have shit perks to choose. It's so unbalanced it's crazy. The bobbleheads are nothing compared to it (at least you had to find them)

To be fair, stats in general are nerfed so much that they hardly matter except for perk selection. For the majority of stats a 5 in fallout 3 counts the same as a 7.5 in fallout 1/2, while the ceiling at 10 is the same. So I wouldn't call it unbalanced, the problem is that its simply lame and dilutes character specialization because obviously you would have to be stupid to choose a +10 skillpoint perk or the other shit.

I would say this is more a problem of getting a perk every level. If they put it at a healthy midpoint of once every other level this wouldn't be overpowered at all.

Ohh and strength doesn't affect unarmed damage, only melee damage (bug? or bethtard?)

In Fallout 3, the unarmed skill is tied to the Endurance SPECIAL stat. The player character will receive a boost of +2 points in Unarmed per level of Endurance, for a maximum boost of +20 points at 10 Endurance. Luck further raises Unarmed effectiveness by +1 points per every 2 levels (+5 Unarmed at 9 Luck).

[...]

In Fallout 3, it is not possible to target individual body parts in V.A.T.S. while unarmed, but the chance of head strikes increases with skill. Targeting with the crosshair outside of V.A.T.S enables the player to select body locations in an attempt to cripple and/or disarm.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'd make it a mix of Endurance and Agility.

I wasn't even talking about this, the amount that stats affect base skills in fallout 3 is so small to be nothing. I'm talking about the bonus + melee damage characters get for high strength, which is listed here.

IIRC, there was something said about making stats more influential in general. Base skills more dependant on them, more variation between the high and low stats, etc. If true thats a good move.

 

[FeelTheRads]

God, you guys are all nitpicky twats. At least think about the design philosophy behind the change, not just nitpick that rocket launchers aren't grenades Lol!!!111

The "problem," paraphrasing Sawyer, is that the skill choices, due to itemization in content, aren't intuitive

Cool stuff, man. Here's how it should be so it's accessible enough, IMO.

 

[FeelTheRads]

i guess this new skill system is good for what it is.

Well, of course. It fits perfectly for FO3's philosophy of "let's cater to every dumbfuck out there".

 

[Berekän]

Here's the way I'd do it:
Remove Small Guns/Big Guns/Energy Weapons altogether. Introduce Pistols/Rifles/Heavy Weaponry. Is shooting a laser pistol that different from shooting a 10mm one? No, it's still a handgun, why the ammo type should matter? The same with rifles, but handling a rifle is obviously different from handling a pistol, hence the two skills. And all former Big Guns and unwieldy Energy Weapons would go to Heavy Weaponry.

Yup, that's probably the best way without adding more skills. I would also go for the more skills options but the Bethards would be pissed about becoming Jack-of-all-trades being more difficult.

 

[Elwro]

indeed, it should be:

ballistics skill
subskill - side arms
subskill - assault rifles
subskill - smgs
subskill - sniper rifles
subskill - scattershot weapons
subskill - machine guns
subskill - heavy machine guns
subskill - impossibly heavy gatling guns
subskill - rpgs (american)
subskill - RPGs (russian)
subskill - RPGs (german)
subcategory: energy weaponry
subskill - laser pistols
subskill - laser rifles
subksill - plasma pistols
subskill - plasma rifles
subskill - pulse pistols
subskill - pulse rifles

meelee weaponry
axes
throwing axes
fencing
- sabre
-rapier
-epee
swordsmanship
-one handed ocidental swords
-two handed ocidental swords
-one handed oriental swords
-two handed oriental swords
-BUSHIDO BANZAI (kenjutsu)
- kenjutsu nyten-ryu
-kenjutsu whateveritsnameis-ryu
blunt weapons
hewing weapons
flails
whips
knives
-hammergrip
-exotic fighting styles
daggers

unarmed combat
kung fu
boxing
mma
karate wadoryu
karate the other one
jiujitsu
sambo
kickboxing
taekwondo
taichihuahua

That's a good start. Now draw the synergy net.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

i want bonus thong.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

indeed, it should be:

ballistics skill
subskill - side arms
subskill - assault rifles
subskill - smgs
subskill - sniper rifles
subskill - scattershot weapons
subskill - machine guns
subskill - heavy machine guns
subskill - impossibly heavy gatling guns
subskill - rpgs (american)
subskill - RPGs (russian)
subskill - RPGs (german)
subcategory: energy weaponry
subskill - laser pistols
subskill - laser rifles
subksill - plasma pistols
subskill - plasma rifles
subskill - pulse pistols
subskill - pulse rifles

meelee weaponry
axes
throwing axes
fencing
- sabre
-rapier
-epee
swordsmanship
-one handed ocidental swords
-two handed ocidental swords
-one handed oriental swords
-two handed oriental swords
-BUSHIDO BANZAI (kenjutsu)
- kenjutsu nyten-ryu
-kenjutsu whateveritsnameis-ryu
blunt weapons
hewing weapons
flails
whips
knives
-hammergrip
-exotic fighting styles
daggers

unarmed combat
kung fu
boxing
mma
karate wadoryu
karate the other one
jiujitsu
sambo
kickboxing
taekwondo
taichihuahua

That's a good start. Now draw the synergy net.

GURPS had subskills and ability to substitute one subskill for another with an appropriate modifier.

I don't think it's important though. It doesn't matter if guns skill and explosives skill is realistic because Fallout became anti-realistic after they lost GURPS licence.