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Genre defining RPGs 2005-2012

Volourn

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"The Original Legends of Grimrock came out in 2012 too I believe."

That game is complete shit.
 

octavius

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2001-2012 as the Great Dark Age?

It's a bit strange that you evaluate 2001 as the start date.

No, it isn't. The X-Box - Bringer of Dumbing Down and Sizing Down - was released that year.

Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines was 2004, Neverwinter Nights was still producing content until 2004 etc etc etc, I still see plenty of threads and posts relating to 'good ol' days' being 2001-2004. You personally might not like much 2001-2004 but it should be perfectly obvious that there was still plenty of genre defining games around those years.

They may be better games than most games produced 2005-2012, but NWN was a decline. Haven't played Bloodlines, but being much more of a combatfag than storyfag it doesn't really excite me. I plan to playing it some day, though.

We know what the good ol' days were in 2001-2004, you obviously just don't agree.

Well, I started playing games long before 2001-2004. I think only people having their "formative years" at that time will agree tat 2001-2004 was good ol' days.
 

Volourn

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," but NWN was a decline. "

No, it was an extremely HEAVY incline.

BEST GAME EVER. NO MATTER THE ERA.
 

octavius

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," but NWN was a decline. "

No, it was an extremely HEAVY incline.

BEST GAME EVER. NO MATTER THE ERA.

Maybe if you were into modding or playing multi with a small group.
But for single player it was a decline compared to the IE games in every way I can think of.
 

Volourn

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Then think harder.

Better character creation, better C&C, better graphics (mostly), more combat options.

BG1 is overrated. BG2 is awesome.

I'd say NWN OC is better than BG1 but worse than BG2.
 

V_K

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For me 2005-2012 was the era of indies: Dark Disciples 1&2, Eschalon 1&2, Geneforge 5, Frayed Knights, Grimrock, Legerdemain, Knights of the Chalice (although that last one doesn't appeal to me personally, I can see its merit).
The only good RPGs from large studios I can remember are King's Bounty and Drakensang: TRoT. Oh, and I must confess (guilty pleasure) that Shivering Isles were delightfully nuts, even if spoiled by Oblivion's shit mechanics.
 

Seaking4

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," but NWN was a decline. "

No, it was an extremely HEAVY incline.

BEST GAME EVER. NO MATTER THE ERA.

Say what you will about the expansions (which could be fun) and the user made campaign (which could also be fun) but the NWN OC is one if the worst things you can ever make someone play.

Although it's hard to properly judge NWN when it's main draw was a toolset.
 

HiddenX

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2005-2012 are not genre defining years.This happened:

a) watering down the genre with action/twitch elements
b) making the borders of the CRPG genre fuzzy by creating CRPG hybrids (=games with some CRPG elements)
 

msxyz

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On top of my head:
The Witcher: excellent potato underdog
NWN2: bugs, lot of bugs...
Dragon Age Origins: the last breath of the old Bioware; after that it's 100% decline
Risen: not-so-Gothic but quite fun up to act III
Skyrim - fun RPG fantasy sandbox game
 

Volourn

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"Say what you will about the expansions (which could be fun) and the user made campaign (which could also be fun) but the NWN OC is one if the worst things you can ever make someone play."

No. BEST EVER.

You will not win this non debate. Better posters have all tried.
 

Magellan

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Dragon Age II was awful but the original and its expansion were half-decent experiences. I also enjoyed the Witcher games and even the Mass Effect series had its moments (I still haven't finished off #3 though I do remember enjoying #1 and even #2 to a limited extent). The Original Legends of Grimrock came out in 2012 too I believe.

Of course, for some reason 2014 has really cast a shadow over this era by somehow managing to produce a host of games that not only pay homage to fondly remembered older titles but also expand on them. It's very refreshing to think of how many great and/or interesting CRPGs are coming out this year. Anyone who purchases DA3 this year on Day One and is disappointed just isn't looking hard enough at what else is out there IMO.

I agree with both Witcher games, and Legend of Grimrock (you're correct, it came out in 2012). All three were enjoyable games. The first Dragon Age wasn't too bad, it was worth playing at least (I avoided the 2nd like the plague).

It is pretty amazing how many solid-looking homages to old-school RPGs are coming out in 2014, hopefully the trend continues into 2015 and beyond.
 

V_K

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For me 2005-2012 was the era of indies

Funny you should say that. For me the indie Aethra Chronicles was the CRPG highlight of the dark age of 94-95.
Nah, that place is taken by Star Trail :cool:.
Though to be completely honest I didn't have a PC until late 90s and only started playing older games around mid-2000s, so this makes Star Trail more of a 2005-2012 CRPG highlight for me :D.
 

Deleted member 7219

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"Say what you will about the expansions (which could be fun) and the user made campaign (which could also be fun) but the NWN OC is one if the worst things you can ever make someone play."

No. BEST EVER.

You will not win this non debate. Better posters have all tried.

I was going to put Jade Empire on my list of "honorable mentions" for RPGs after 2005. What are your opinions on it now almost ten years have passed?
 

ioanvonhans

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I think NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer was hot shit in a mug. And it still is. If I am not mistaken, it was one of the last old school, PC-only, RPGs to hit the market from a big publisher.

Unfortunately, it did not slow down the dumbing down process of videogames, and of the RPG genre in particular. The first Modern Warfare came out during that year and it sold a billion copies. Digital distribution wasn't big yet. Piracy "was killing the PC market", and the console segment was full of whales begging to get milked. A lethal cocktail which prompted everyone to trip over themselves to make their games for those things. Even Witcher 2 which everyone's praising is designed with the console market in mind, heavily ridden with all the dumb tropes known to please it.
 

Nikaido

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There were no such a thing as genre defining games in the past decade. That's because to be genre defining you need to inspire clones or at least, show some major influence over other game developers.
People here are trying to make lists of "top games post 2005" but whether they were good games or not has no bearing over the fact that none of them were genre defining. Wizardry, M&M and IE games were arguably genre defining. I can't think of anything from the past decade that could be seen as such.

The top selling games aren't genre defining either in this decade. Skyrim is one of the biggest selling video game across all genres but it didn't really inspire any sort of attempt to make more games like these. That's Bethesda's territory (and thank god for that).
 

V_K

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Skyrim is one of the biggest selling video game across all genres but it didn't really inspire any sort of attempt to make more games like these. That's Bethesda's territory (and thank god for that).
Actually, both Witcher 3 and Dragon Age 3 are open-world games precisely because of Skyrim's success. And there's also the indie TES-like Frontiers in the making. It's just that games like that take a lot of time to make so we've not seen the full Skyrim impact yet.
Not to mention the two Two Worlds games and Kingdoms of Amalur, though they came before Skyrim and were thus Oblivion-inspired (not that it did them any favours).
 

Deleted member 7219

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Skyrim is one of the biggest selling video game across all genres but it didn't really inspire any sort of attempt to make more games like these. That's Bethesda's territory (and thank god for that).
Actually, both Witcher 3 and Dragon Age 3 are open-world games precisely because of Skyrim's success. And there's also the indie TES-like Frontiers in the making. It's just that games like that take a lot of time to make so we've not seen the full Skyrim impact yet.
Not to mention the two Two Worlds games and Kingdoms of Amalur, though they came before Skyrim and were thus Oblivion-inspired (not that it did them any favours).

Bioware backtracked in Dragon Age 3. It won't be fully open world, it'll just be made up of several large areas.
 

Nikaido

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Skyrim is one of the biggest selling video game across all genres but it didn't really inspire any sort of attempt to make more games like these. That's Bethesda's territory (and thank god for that).
Actually, both Witcher 3 and Dragon Age 3 are open-world games precisely because of Skyrim's success. And there's also the indie TES-like Frontiers in the making. It's just that games like that take a lot of time to make so we've not seen the full Skyrim impact yet.
Not to mention the two Two Worlds games and Kingdoms of Amalur, though they came before Skyrim and were thus Oblivion-inspired (not that it did them any favours).
Neither DA3 nor Witcher 3 have been released, nor have we seen enough to see the extent of what you call "open world" in these games. I very much doubt for one that we'll see anything like the typical Elder Scrolls, particularly when you consider what "open" means in a TES: being able to kill mostly any npc (bar a few quest marked ones), thievery (being able to steal anything that wasn't glued to a wall) etc.

The other two examples do fit the bill though. Still, hardly comparable to the impact of any game that was genre defining in the past.
 

octavius

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For me 2005-2012 was the era of indies

Funny you should say that. For me the indie Aethra Chronicles was the CRPG highlight of the dark age of 94-95.
Nah, that place is taken by Star Trail :cool:.
Though to be completely honest I didn't have a PC until late 90s and only started playing older games around mid-2000s, so this makes Star Trail more of a 2005-2012 CRPG highlight for me :D.

I haven't played Star Trail yet, so it may well usurp the place. I was going to play the remakes, but then the first one turned out to be Steam only bugware, and now it seems it has even become vapourware. So the originals are back on my play list.
 

Seaking4

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"Say what you will about the expansions (which could be fun) and the user made campaign (which could also be fun) but the NWN OC is one if the worst things you can ever make someone play."

No. BEST EVER.

You will not win this non debate. Better posters have all tried.

Well I'm not sure anyone can win. It's just a matter of preference but I'm a bit surprised that someone actually believes this. I just replayed NWN (don't ask why) so lots of the idiotic shit is still in my head. Although I tend to have a favourable opinion of the entire thing because the NWN OC is the first game I ever played. Hard to hate your first game. But let's take a shot at this. I'm not going to least all my problems with it but just some that you mentioned it did well earlier.

Anyways, you listed 'better C&C' and 'better graphics' both of which I think NWN does terribly. Even if they do them better than BG1/2, they still do them terribly. I agree that NWN had a ton of combat options though. C&C is non-existent in NWN. Take the third chapter for example: there are a variety of ways that you can strengthen the Lord's Alliance and help Neverwinter. You can settle the trial so that the tribe* isn't upset with the Lord's Alliance, you can convince the other tribe to side with the Lord's Alliance against Luskan, and you can stregthen the trade lines by killing two orcs and then Obould Many Arrows (there are probably other ways too but I can't remember them). However, no matter what you do nothing changes. Luskan is still going to steam roll Neverwinter and no mention of these things will be ever made after the quest goes into the completed tab. That's just one example but aside from: I can kill this person or I can let this person live (for literally every quest) there is no C&C. There are no consequences for your actions.

Better graphics is a bit subjective but whoever was designing NWN must have had some sort of spastic nature where he would add random shit to every map. It's like he made a final pass on the game to add 10x more magical beams of light everywhere (and boulders). None of it really makes sense. I suppose this is more about design than about graphics though.

*The tribe has a 'sacred place' in Beorunna's Well (I think that's the name) and one of the tribeswoman tells you to be respectful. When you get there it is a 5x5 place at the bottom of a hill with a well (the well of course has a magical beam of light shooting out of it) and two deer walking around. My favourite moment of the entire game.

Just as a side note, I discovered something the last time I played. That Summon creature 7/8/9 are a bit broken when you are playing on DnD Hardcore or above. Because if you get an air elemental or a water elemental once per summon they will attack you. The air elemental will always use a knockdown attack but the water elemental uses a drown attack that typically: killed my henchman, my familiar, did damage to me, and did damage to itself. Funny stuff. Although overall NWN is much easier on DnD hardcore than on normal because enemy wizards kill themselves and their teammates (and they are usually the only challenge).

I actually have fond memories of NWN's combat. It has some serious problems in the OC (far too many trash mobs and lack of difficulty) but there are a ton of different things you can do which is fun. I didn't even bother touching the story (top points for hamfisting a romance in the game in the last chapter though) because it's not really worth it. This isn't to say that the game was never fun (I can definitely think of a few moments that were fun to play) but it becomes too much once you leave familiar forest #3 to go into generic cave #7 to fight trash mob #1000.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
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"I was going to put Jade Empire on my list of "honorable mentions" for RPGs after 2005. What are your opinions on it now almost ten years have passed?"

Too bad it didn't sell enough for BIo to make a sequel (just under 2mil in first 6 months or so is not enough lol). It is better than other highly praised games like KOTOR (overrated) or BG1 (fun at its time for what it was but doesn't really hold up). JE wansn't perfect but it was hella fun.


"Because if you get an air elemental or a water elemental once per summon they will attack you. The air elemental will always use a knockdown attack but the water elemental uses a drown attack that typically:"

They're likely not attacking you. Just doing their special attacks which are area effects. Shouldn't be damaging themselves though except water elemental special ability does take half its hit points to power it (can be deadly if you can't save vs death).


The romances (of course) can be easily ignored and play a rather small role in the game even if you follow them.

There are tons of C&C in the game. Different ways to complete quests as well. The two trial/jury quests are examples of this. Also, the game has some terriifc other quests and area. The time temple (going back and forth in time to solve the puzzles/area), the white dragon world with the dryads and dwarves), the various ways to deal with the dragons

I agree the combat can be easy espciially if you take advantage of some the unbalanced/silly design decisions. It's why I never used the portal stone except when I finished an area. I also never rested in middle of a dungeon, and I didn't use respawn (for me or npcs). Lots of games have stuff that skew things too much. I played the game hardcore. Makes it much better.

I remember one guy who bragged how super easy Kauth was... he then slipped up and mentioned it was because he would port in and out during the fight to rest uip lol or get back his companion.L0LZ
 

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