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Geneforge 1/Aguirre the Wrath of God

Goblino

Savant
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
327
So I've started dicking around with Spiderweb games, and I'm starting to think I'll be the newest member of the Vogel cult. I started by playing some Avernum on my tablet, and while it's fun, it really doesn't compare to my first impressions of Geneforge. I know it's been said many times, but the exploration, mystery, faction interplay, and hunt for new power makes this one of the dankest rpgs I've ever stuck my dick in. My natural desire as a player to gain more power has influenced my roleplaying to make me choose to exploit the obeyers trust, slaughter Ellrah, and now I plan to genocide the Awakened and play the other two factions until I feel like eliminating one. My character started as an ambitious student, and turned into a power drunken sociopath who plans to enslave a strange and savage land. How many games let you roleplay as Aguirre?
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,086
I am the great traitor. There must be no other. Anyone who even thinks about deserting this mission will be cut up into 198 pieces. Those pieces will be stamped on until what is left can be used only to paint walls. Whoever takes one grain of corn or one drop of water... more than his ration, will be locked up for 155 years. If I, Aguirre, want the birds to drop dead from the trees... then the birds will drop dead from the trees. I am the Wrath of God. The earth I pass will see me and tremble. But whoever follows me and the river, will win untold riches. But whoever deserts...

:excellent:
 
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IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
I just completed Avernum the other day and started Geneforge soon after (am just outside the third settlement having cleared everything south of the northern grindlands) and so far I am the opposite to you CL, I much prefer the Avernum format so far. Where Avernum gives me that classic D&Dish vibe, albeit without the factions element so much, Geneforge seems much more of an adventure-game-RPG-hybrid feeling. There are things I prefer in Geneforge, such as fast travel, Avernum's weakest aspect being all the forced running around for infinity and beyond, but, overall, Geneforge seems to have quite basic gameplay in a more interesting story whereas Avernum has more traditional gameplay in a less interesting story.

My biggest immediate disappointment with Geneforge was when a screen popped up saying "you can only have 3 different types of creations at one time" for 7 slots. Well... that's a bumhole. Here you are with a game where you can have one of the most fun group dynamics in cRPGs and 8, yes, an 8 team party... but they all have to be the same creatures? So if I want to upgrade my Fyoar (sp?) to a cryoar (sp?) I have to delete my Fyoar that I've already spent 10 levels levelling up? Well that fucks up the whole point of levelling them up doesn't it. Also, the stats are way more obtuse than Avernum as you really do have an interest in all the skills what with it being a single character game (none of your other potential 7 team posse members can do anything skillwise beyond main stats), meaning that, if you want to clear that bridge of mines you have to have XYZ mechanics skill (or permanently lug around 5 billion living tools which make my mage encumbered in a nano-second), a stat I shouldn't be investing in as a mage class. ie: most of my skills are convenience buys rather than upgrade buys.

Geneforge is also a lot weaker at telling you crucial stats and other information. For example, when I had the ugly C&C choice of whether to absorb my older creation I tried to find out exactly how much essence it was currently consuming, but not a single word of this exists anywhere. Nowhere does it tell you how much essence each creation is currently costing. Also, rather crucially, I have no idea, and the game doesn't tell you, even in the game-wiki, whether Dexterity is needed for missile spells like firebolt, spell crystals or wands to have a better chance of hitting their target?. Likewise, do the magical attacks of the magical creations require Dexterity to have a better chance of hitting? My main character has very good Firebolt skill (4), very good Battle Magic (5 I thing) and has Intelligence of 10 but his Firebolts have the least chance of hitting their target than any of the newly created creations. Also, all the creations have uniform starting stats, like 7-9 in all base stats as soon as you summon them, but you still need to give them 2 Intelligence to control them, no matter what their summoned stat is, and yet my main character's main stats are, like, 2, 2, 10, 2 and I'm wondering why my shaper has such shit stats when he can so easily summon flat 9s out of thin air.

Also, in Avernum you can avoid respawns outside of caves and structures and inside cave structures it's normally inconsequential respawns, but in Geneforge the respawns will just keep at the same consistency no matter how many you 'clear' before going back (unless this is a specific feature of the northern grind areas for grinding's sake?). Whatever the reason is, Geneforge tires me out and provides less hours of playtime per session than Avernum did. I could play Avernum until I was literally physically fatigued. With Geneforge mental fatigue kicks in well before the physical fatigue.

Ah shit, that turned into a right ugly wall of text.
 
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Nim

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
453
So if I want to upgrade my Fyoar (sp?) to a cryoar (sp?) I have to delete my Fyoar that I've already spent 10 levels levelling up? Well that fucks up the whole point of levelling them up doesn't it.
There is no point to levelling up creations in G1.
For example, when I had the ugly C&C choice of whether to absorb my older creation I tried to find out exactly how much essence it was currently consuming, but not a single word of this exists anywhere. Nowhere does it tell you how much essence each creation is currently costing.
Current essence on the creature level up screen, lower right.
Also, rather crucially, I have no idea, and the game doesn't tell you, even in the game-wiki, whether Dexterity is needed for missile spells like firebolt, spell crystals or wands to have a better chance of hitting their target?
Dex is for Javelins, Batons and iirc crystals ? Not spells at all, those use their respective school, spellcraft and spell levels bought/found.
Likewise, do the magical attacks of the magical creations require Dexterity to have a better chance of hitting?
Creations use Strength for all attack damage and to hit. Dex is only for their evasion and initiative.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
So if I want to upgrade my Fyoar (sp?) to a cryoar (sp?) I have to delete my Fyoar that I've already spent 10 levels levelling up? Well that fucks up the whole point of levelling them up doesn't it.
There is no point to levelling up creations in G1.
For example, when I had the ugly C&C choice of whether to absorb my older creation I tried to find out exactly how much essence it was currently consuming, but not a single word of this exists anywhere. Nowhere does it tell you how much essence each creation is currently costing.
Current essence on the creature level up screen, lower right.
Also, rather crucially, I have no idea, and the game doesn't tell you, even in the game-wiki, whether Dexterity is needed for missile spells like firebolt, spell crystals or wands to have a better chance of hitting their target?
Dex is for Javelins, Batons and iirc crystals ? Not spells at all, those use their respective school, spellcraft and spell levels bought/found.
Likewise, do the magical attacks of the magical creations require Dexterity to have a better chance of hitting?
Creations use Strength for all attack damage and to hit. Dex is only for their evasion and initiative.

Re: 1. Bwhahahahaa

Re: 2. If you mean this screen and here:

GeneforgeEssence_zpsm9v0s5fx.png


Then that's how much essence you have left to spend, not what the creature's total is:

GeneforgeEssence2_zpsjdrblqfl.png


Re: 3. Which, if true, are pretty useless unless I direct even more points into one specific skill at the expense of all the others...

Re: 4. How do you even know this and why do they have different rules?
 

Nim

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
453
Seriously, in G1, there is relatively little difference between most creations in terms of stats. Additionally, since creations get better bonuses from being created at high level than from getting there via experience, you can run disposable creations always and change creation types whenever you feel like it.
http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/14547-best-bang-for-your-essence-buck-in-g1/
Afaik a creations that levels via experience gets additional stats every 2 levels while freshly created ones get them for every level.

Re: 2. You are ofc right, mea culpa.

Re: 4. How do you even know this and why do they have different rules?
Why ? Who knows, there are things like that everywhere in Vogels games, often legacy stuff. And he unfortunately doesn't particularly care about his documentations being up to date. And I guess people figured this one out by pumping Dex and wondering why their creations weren't doing more damage.

You might want to read the G1 sticky on the spiderweb forum if you do continue playing.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
Possibly, but if that's where you're getting your info, perhaps not. My creations get 2 points every level up from experience.
 

Goblino

Savant
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
327
I see what you mean about G1's shitty stats, but I prefer it for the story and unique concepts. I like Avernum as more of a dungeon diving experience than a story/exploration game. I've heard OG Avernum had more delicious rpging than the tablet/Escape from the Pit edition. Which version are you playing, and is there a comprehensive explanation of what might make the original version more hardcore? Also, is Nethergate any good?
 
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IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
According to someone on the Avernum thread I'm playing Avernum remake 1 (they're currently on remake 2 as the latest version). The above Geneforge is likely the same, it says version 1.0.1 with a letter, I think it was G for Geneforge(?) but I might be wrong about the letter. They're both the version you get from Gog when you buy the complete sets there:

https://af.gog.com/game/avernum_the_complete_saga?as=1649904300 (different to remake 2 which is: https://af.gog.com/game/avernum_escape_from_the_pit?as=1649904300 )

https://af.gog.com/game/geneforge_15?as=1649904300 (which doesn't have any newer versions AFAIK)
 
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Nim

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
453
Created at lvl 3 and leveled to 10
6BCNMNL.jpg

Created at lvl 10
qHBVLLF.jpg


Also, G3 introduced total essence used on the creation page.
dzCpS2S.jpg
Possibly, but if that's where you're getting your info, perhaps not.
So you know better than ~15 years of accumulated knowledge on the SW forums ?
 
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IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
It would seem you don't understand humour. Also...

Your post, which I was mocking, was this:

Afaik a creations that levels via experience gets additional stats every 2 levels while freshly created ones get them for every level.

Which makes no sense to anyone. Now you've provided examples of what the fuck you were talking about I guess it makes more sense, though what "every two levels" has to do with the price of fish I've no idea. All creations are created by you and then they gain experience. You're words sound like jibberish when what you wanted to say was:

Levelling up a creation will never match the stats you'll get from just producing a new one when you yourself increase in level. Which would make sense, but this still mocks the game in a negative light so I've no idea how this counters my initial response of "Bwhahahaha" to the idea of creation levels being bizarrely pointless.

As for knowing better than the forums, I haven't said I know better than the forums, I 'implied' I appear to know better than you, which then supplied me with the joke that you're too thick to get. I'm sure there's loads of great knowledge on that forum. I haven't needed any knowledge yet, so far the game's been a breeze, my post was a complaint about the things the game doesn't tell you about, as a form of game criticism. It's great that a forum somewhere knows more about the game than the game lets on, but that forum's existence doesn't nullify the negative points raised about the game itself.

You'd have fared a lot better and made for a much easier to read and less spammy thread if you'd 1) been more descriptive and less lazy in your first post, 2) Not said stuff that's bollox to muddy the water and 3) not used cryptology to explain something that plain english would suffice with.

Hope that helps :)
 

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