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Editorial Game Design Essentials - 20 RPGs in 22 Pages

Jason

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Tags: Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord

John Harris took a break from his <a href="http://www.gamesetwatch.com/column_at_play/" target="blank">@Play column</a> to throw down a 22 page article for Gamasutra, <b><a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4066/game_design_essentials_20_rpgs.php" target="blank">Game Design Essentials: 20 RPGs</a></b>, wherein he pokes at the innards of 10 western RPGs and 10 of the Japanese variety.
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<blockquote>Even though there are many scripted encounters, or "specials," a key difference between Wizardry and the D&D sessions it seeks to emulate is the absence of a flexible DM to allow the players to try things that aren't offered in the basic ruleset. There is no jumping up on tables, swinging from ropes, prodding with 10-foot poles, knocking on walls, or listening at doors or using them to block pursuers. Monsters don't exist until they have been triggered, and once a fight begins it takes place entirely in that square of dungeon map, and cannot sprawl out into the dungeon.
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It is important to note that, in the 25-plus years since Wizardry was released, no CRPG has satisfactorily addressed this limitation, that of system inflexibilty. The lack of verisimilitude remains the most grievous difference between them and pen-and-paper games. </blockquote>
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The article is worth a read, even the JRPG parts (there's a section on Earthbound), although some folks will point and laugh at this bit in the Baldur's Gate section:
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<blockquote>Finally, I don't think I can let this game pass by without noting the extremely well-done characterization of the potential party characters. I am not aware of anyone who has played this game who had a certain ranger named Minsc join his party who wasn't utterly enthralled by the character. </blockquote>
 

circ

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This link was already posted in General RPG. As for Minsc, the guy pissed me off with his constant hamster talk, so at first opportunity he was swapped for another groupmate.
 

Jasede

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How could you? Minsc was such a deep and well-fleshed out character.
 

Voodoo Daddy

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Oooh, verisimilitude... game journalists are getting all fancy now.

BOO! GO FOR THE EYES!

I let Edwin kill him in Baldur's Gate 1. Minsc is pretty well fleshed out though, especially the part when he fights you to the death for refusing his quest. The only people who top him are Khalid with his stuttering and low moral (which doesn't help with his sucky stats) and Xzar with that god awful kids voice every GOD DAMN TIME YOU CLICK ON HIM. STOP TOUCHING ME! WAA! STOP TOUCHING ME! WAA! YEA XZAR? YOU FUCKING PIECE OF HORSE COCK? HOW ABOUT ME AND IMOEN MAGIC MISSILE YOUR ASS TO FUCKING DEATH? YEEEAAAAA TOUCH THIS, MOTHERFUCKER! The first time I played I thought something was wrong with my game until I found out that noise was coming from Montaron's idiot partner. Unfortunately, Montaron was kind of cool, but not cool enough to keep that magefuck bastard around.
 

bhlaab

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The most irritating thing is that hes one of the best characters in the game stats-wise, and unless you cheat if you kick him out diharhana goes with him
 

thesheeep

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Minsc was quite a nice member to have in your party. Extremely fun one-liners, good skills and a hamster.
Though his voice in the German version of BG1 was unbearable....

Not serious enough for a game in which you get to save the world and become a god?
You never player any pnp, eh? ;)
 

Spectacle

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Baldur's gate really showed the advantage of every character being killable. I simply had Montaron stab his annoying partner Xzar to death, and then everyone was happy.

Modern RPG's feel like straitjackets in comparison. It's not just the dumbing down, but also the incompetent developers who simply lack the skill to implement freedom of action in their games.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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Spectacle said:
It's not just the dumbing down, but also the incompetent developers who simply lack the skill to implement freedom of action in their games.

You know that? That developers are incompetent and lack the skill to do it right? As opposed to doing it deliberately this way? So somehow the BIO devs who made BG and nowadays work on ME or DA have lost their competence and skill by now huh?


This is a neat trend among the resident halfwits as of late. The incompetent, stupid, talentless devs with their complete lack of teh skillz.
Makes you wonder why they get hired in the first place. I never knew the market works this way. Wouldn't the studios be better of to hire some of you mental titans? After all you know how to do it properly - diz gaem designing bizness.

Here are some hints why YOU don't get these jobs.
- it's not because you're too smart
- it's not because you've got more talent than they can handle
- it's not because your deep and impressive knowledge intimidates them
- and it's also not because your abundant and well developed skillset makes them look bad in comparison
 

Black

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Jasede said:
How could you? Minsc was such a deep and well-fleshed out character.
Your sarcasm isn't appreciated because there are people who honestly think that.
Loud idiot with a hamster = GREATEST CHARACTER EVAR SO RANDUM LOL
Fucking dipshits.
 

Serus

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Greatest - not at all. He was annoying and shallow and one dimensonial but there are so many WORSE followers in BG games or in other RPGs - at least he was was sometimes funny when played for the first time (with Jan Jansen in the team in BG2) and not that easily forgetable.
 

DriacKin

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thesheeep said:
Minsc was quite a nice member to have in your party. Extremely fun one-liners, good skills and a hamster.
Though his voice in the German version of BG1 was unbearable....

More like: Extremely stupid and annoying one-liners

Also, his voice in the English version was pretty annoying as well.
 

Micmu

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Jasede said:
How could you? Minsc was such a deep and well-fleshed out character.
He was "fleshed out" indeed after I've been through with him, that annoying chimp.
 

Xorazm

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Interesting in light of the re-post. Although it's a shame the thread devolved into a discussion of whether or not Minsc was annoying or not and glossed over the really interesting point in the article, which is - how do you implement table-top freedom into a cRPG? Is it possible? To what extent has it been tried and failed? Is there a reason why RPGs (or at least cRPGs) have to rely on combat to supply the overwhelming majority of the challenge, and will it ever evolve beyond that?

What RPG has really come close to offering you the most freedom and flexibility in terms of how you approach and solve problems?

I'm tempted to reach for Deus Ex but I still haven't worked my way through all of the classics so it's possible I'm missing a few that did it better.
 
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Combat is way more strightforward to design and implement in a computar than a series of intriguing obstacles, traps, puzzles, investigations, searches and social interactions. I doubt cRPGs will evolve satisfactorily from more than a string of combat and dialogue trees, which is ok by me already. I wish they could evolve and become more like full-fledged real life PnP, which are much more interesting, but way harder to implement.

Deus Ex is indeed always brought up when talking about freedom and flexibility, but I think games with a series of options and slides, visual novel games with ability/skill checks could also be somewhat fun to play if the designer was truly inspired. A modern Ultima 7 would be great, for instance, and for being close to that is the reason D:OS was so much praised by the codex. We'll see what the new Torment brings us.

Or PoE

:troll:
 

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