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Frozen Synapse 2 - phase-based tactical combat in an open world

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DakaSha V

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Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
Apparently the city isnt randomly generated like i was expecting. :decline:

Source?

"procedurally generated" one time and once only is still procedurally generated
:positive:
:negative:
but yeah that's not what I was expecting from FS2. I want a new city layout or at least factions to be in different spots from game to game. It can't be the same old Mega-Primus all the time.

It seems like at least the players position is different every time (and i *think* that apples to the factions as well). Having said that ive already lost patience with how garbage everything feels. Going to try again later
 

ColCol

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
1,731
Can confirm, game's crashing regularly, but at least it autosaves every primed turn.
How was the city multiplayer supposed to work btw? I only watched one dev video, was it showcased anywhere?


City Multiplayer is not available yet, from what I could see...
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
Some of the enemy squad compositions are pretty lulzy:
8sdcpkI.jpg

(riot shield is a new unit. it doesn't have a weapon at all)
City Multiplayer is not available yet, from what I could see...
Yeah, I know, I've seen people complaining - that's why I'm asking. How would cityscape even work in MP?
 
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DakaSha V

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Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
the ai is also completely random. itll just walk back and forth instead of trying to get into those rooms youre always supposed to defend
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,163
Location
Bulgaria
I tried out the game,and it feels bad. The game kept giving me missions that are on the other side of the city and thus fucking me over,there wasn't a single mission that was near my HQ. People were constantly whining that i was late for X mission. The AI seems very random and unpredictable for the wrong reasons. Weapons feel pretty meh,only good weapon i saw was the assault rifle. The rest are garbage,haven't tried the uzi and the grenade launcher. Sniper is extremely useless since most of your encounters are in a buildings and takes too long to take a shot,total waste of 50 grand. I could spit further than the pistol,its range is ridiculously small. Also why can;'t you just buy weapons and equip your mercs,and who the fuck will buy a knife guy? The game have good concept but it is frustrating and half assed.
 
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DakaSha V

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
I tried out the game,and it feels bad. The game kept giving me missions that are on the other side of the city and thus fucking me over,there wasn't a single mission that was near my HQ. People were constantly whining that i was late for X mission. The AI seems very random and unpredictable for the wrong reasons. Weapons feel pretty meh,only good weapon i saw was the assault rifle. The rest are garbage,haven't tried the uzi and the grenade launcher. Sniper is extremely useless since most of your encounters are in a buildings and takes too long to take a shot,total waste of 50 grand. I could spit further than the pistol,its range is ridiculously small. Also why can;'t you just buy weapons and equip your mercs,and who the fuck will buy a knife guy? The game have good concept but it is frustrating and half assed.

l2p
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
Zenith The first game's Red DLC had the riot shield unit.
Gee, and I thought I was over-explaining the joke.
frustrating and half assed.
You forgot to mention how other factions will shake you down and open fire, but then you will be charged with public disturbance.

I don't know, so far I had no obvious AI blunders or critical bugs, but then I guess after only a couple hours my crowning achievement is a treaty with the local fedex. I guess it's missing that puzzle element FS1 had in its singleplayer, this one so far feels laid-back and safe. Going to try MP on the weekend.
 
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DakaSha V

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
refunded. may buy again when its out of alpha.

Ai cant even pathfind its way into my headquarters during an assault. Id literally have to leave my own headquarters to stop an assault, unless there is a turn limit, which im not waiting for.
 
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DakaSha V

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Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
Ai cant even pathfind its way into my headquarters during an assault. Id literally have to leave my own headquarters to stop an assault, unless there is a turn limit, which im not waiting for.

I see what you mean. I had all my guns trained on the entrance and a flamethrower right next to it to burn anyone who came in. Half the enemy squad walked straight into my flamethrower arc while it was burning which only makes sense from symmetric play. (Same thing happened earlier with enemies running into poison gas clouds) The other half not only refused to enter my base, they didn't even move around and just froze up on a side road.

That shit was the nail in the coffin for me.

Hopefully it gets (mega) fixed. It has a really interesting (broken) base
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,442
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Can always count on the British gamejourno mafia: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...actical-shenanigans-in-a-fractious-cyber-city

Frozen Synapse 2 review - sharp tactical shenanigans in a fractious cyber-city
Virtual light.

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Often overwhelming and always nerve-wracking, Mode 7's classic tactical game receives a fascinating strategic reworking.

What did you do during the incursions? When the city was under threat from within and without, when the petty, tooled-up factions were bristling and looking for any excuse to kick off, and then every few minutes they would burst through cyberspace (or whatever it is) at a new location and initiate a major scuffle?

Well, I delivered a lot of packages.

In Frozen Synapse 2 it is surprisingly easy to find yourself skint: factions disappointed in you and cutting funding, easy jobs neglected because urgent matters got in the way. For my first few games, my finances were constantly tanking, which meant I couldn't hire enough talent to get me through even the simplest combat mission, which in turn meant that I couldn't receive regular cash injections from taking on the simplest combat missions in the first place - defence contracts, venture prevention. I was behind the power curve. So instead, I had to go to the absolute lowest paying, least dangerous fare imaginable. I had to effectively throw away my early-game hopes and become a parcel courier. I was hired, originally, to hold this city together, and yet here I am taking boxes around and dropping them off. How brilliant! No, seriously. How deeply brilliant that this glittering neon cyberpunk affair should have plenty of room to explore an emergent gig economy. It's not really a dystopia until someone's left you a little postcard saying that the goods you ordered are with a non-existent neighbour.

The original Frozen Synapse was a tactical battler that hinged on a sort of double-blind idea. (I may be using that term incorrectly.) It was red against green, different units, different capabilities, facing off against each other in maps made from blades of cool neon, all delivered with a brilliant twist: you made your move while your enemy made their move. Neither party could see the other's machinations until both committed to the turn, at which point both sides' actions would unfold simultaneously.

jpg

Long turns allow you to see a complete idea through to the end. Risky, though!

The genius of this was that when it worked - when you successfully anticipated an enemy's move - it was a truly dazzling high. Maybe you cranked the simulation, plugging in not just your own movements but your best guess at what your enemy was doing. Maybe instead you opted for the tactical battler's take on the Three H approach, and just pushed ahead aggressively and assumed your foe would do the same. Whatever. To get your shotgunner in just the right position to take out their SMG as it rounded a corner, oblivious to your presence, was just about the sweetest pleasure tactical gaming could offer, as if ghostly dimensions were colliding, bullets passing through these strange membranes as deeply personal timelines kissed against one another.

And when it didn't work, well, it was still great, because Laurel and Hardy took over. Both sides would stalk phantoms across the map, bravely moving in on empty hallways and getting the drop on dusty broom closets. Rivals would pass by in the same battle arena, almost clipping through each other but failing to open fire, because the opposite of anticipation had occurred. God, it was fun.

Frozen Synapse 2 takes this beautiful core - not just the moving, but the ability to test an enemy's potential movements against your own before commiting to a turn - and builds a far more fully-realised campaign around it. You're now one faction amongst many in a luminous neon cityscape. You're tasked with keeping the peace, I think - these factions are itching for an excuse to launch ventures against one another - and you're also dealing with those incursions. These are attacks from outside the city that provide a common threat to all factions, but are also a source of opportunity, because the game ultimately hinges on collecting a set number of relics, the same little doodads that the incursion forces are after. It's not just enough to get a relic, mind. You have to get it back to your base and activate it. Meanwhile, who knows who will come after you for it while it's still up for grabs?

What this boils down to, as far as I play it, is a gloriously shrill hymn to what economists call opportunity cost. (I may be using this term incorrectly too.) Whatever you're doing at any moment, you should really be doing something else. The game is terribly good at telling you all this stuff. If you go after incursions, you're probably not doing favours for the various factions to keep them sweet and keep your funding coming in. If you're doing favours for the various factions, you're probably letting other factions go after the incursions. And, of course, a favour for one faction is a favour that has gone against rival factions. It is a bit like being the child of divorced parents at Christmas.

jpg

Needless aside: Synapse is a pretty interesting word. We owe the current usage - the busy gap between two neurons - to the neurologist Charles Scott Sherrington, who was a truly wonderful human being, as far as I can tell. He knew that nerve cells must connect in some way so that signals could be passed from one to the other, but he could not see the point of contact with the technology he had to hand. He took a punt on the mechanism - he was not correct - and chose the word synapse from the ancient Greek term 'to clasp.' To clasp! I've always found that strangely moving. It strikes me that, while he was literally wrong, he somehow got at a deeper - and rather hard to express - emotional truth about the way in which we all hang together.

Or, if you're me, you're basically managing a cyberpunk version of Uber Eats, which means that the factions are running wild and you're still not making enough money to pad out your squads with fresh mercenaries, coming in all the usual flavours - flamethrowers, SMGs, assault rifles, pistols, knives, that kind of jazz. Sometimes, it takes a game of crypto-babble and elbowy Gibsonian neologisms to truly drive home just what happens when you fall a little behind and find that everything you're doing to bring in a little money just makes it worse.

The detailing is lovely. The factions are all gloriously unpleasant, futuristic megacorp naming conventions linked to characterful leader portraits that suggest a world of glittering pettiness and brutal smuggery. Regardless of the specific underlying ethos, these are people united by a delight in being disappointed, I think, and they absolutely love the opportunity to turn down an offer to increase your standing with them. The city, meanwhile, is a tantalising place to battle over as you zoom in and out of its skyscrapers and flowing tributaries. It's a metropolis that endlessly chucks problems your way - every few seconds the action pauses as another request comes in, or another atrocity makes the uneasy peace a little uneasier still. And then there's the question of what you should be doing - buying another base, taking on missions to earn a bit of extra cash and favour, hunting through the markets for decent mercenaries. If you are truly blessed, you may even find the time and resources to keep an eye on who is running low on money and might be a target for taking out - kill the faction leader and the corporation is gone, even if they still survive to play a ghostly role in the campaign story - and who is stockpiling relics.

Or you can just sit back, stunned and overwhelmed and preemptively defeated, and watch the city grinding on. Territory shrinking and growing. Faction squads racing back and forth on busy, beetling duties. Red flares of incursions erupting. God, I should really try to sort some of those out, shouldn't I? The city looks beautiful, but it's also something of a design marvel: each building, each road intersection, can become a combat arena when you take on a mission and when the tactical double-blind stuff takes over. The maps are a mixture of procedural elements and pre-designed assets, and there is a lovely bit of showmanship when you arrive at a location for a mission and the camera swoops in overhead and then plunges down to street level. Whether it's a superscraper you're assaulting or an intersection your patrol is defending, the game copes with the interaction of its two modes rather elegantly: the tactical stuff makes sense alongside the strategic layer.

And a handful of mission types vary things nicely. The AI is fun - Its various pieces are wonderfully aggressive even if I didn't always get the sense that units worked in concert that meaningfully - and it makes for some wonderful Petri dish moments. In one mission I spawned in the middle of the map and had to hold out for 30 seconds while enemies and reinforcements rushed in from all sides. The game would pause between turns when there were bullets flying through the air, and even though I literally had forever until I had to make my next move, the sense of pressure was so intense I would invariably make a muddle of it, suggesting that units crouch when there was no cover, and sending knives in against assault rifles, head-on. Never a good idea.

jpg

There are plenty of options to mess with, generally if you want to make things harder for yourself in interesting ways.

It's surprisingly good at stories, this game. Small, battlefield stories. My first real win involved holding back. I was in a long, thinnish kind of map - some kind of building complex at one end and a massive expanse of car parking at the other. The bulk of my enemies were clustered in the middle, red figures pulled so tightly together I had to zoom in close to see the weapons: pistols, mainly, and a few knives. I positioned myself at the end of the car park, there were three of us, and we crouched behind bumpers. Massively outnumbered. Then, instead of advancing and moving from one piece of cover to the next, we just waited, picking enemies off whenever they wandered too far from the pack. It was a victory for Parcel Force, although it hardly felt heroic. When the main bunch of enemies were taken out I inched up on the heavy units stationed in a compound near the street and finished them off with a single grenade. I don't think they even saw me. The postman truly rang twice that day.

If this all sounds too much - and on my third or fourth game, I'm still feeling a little lost, in a pleasant way, in amongst the myriad demands of the campaign - you can still play Frozen Synapse the old-fashioned way. This is one of those games that I'll never feel I've played enough to get the true measure of, but I suspect the longest life it has may ultimately reside in the multiplayer menu, where you can find a match amongst a player-base that seems relatively willing at present and do the old play-by-mail thing, with the game running in the background while messages that it's your turn pop up. It feels like a wonderfully old-fashioned and polite way of engaging with such a brutal piece of SF.

(The Dark mode rules here, by the way: enemies effectively disappear when line of sight is broken. As a result, my favourite multiplayer matches so far have been a bit like submarine hunts: where and when will my foes resurface? Then there's OneTurn, in which you fight through wave after wave of horribly claustrophobic combat scenarios. Lovely!)

All taken together, it's a pretty wonderful thing: a complex, gloriously mean-spirited fight for the city with hundred of thousands of little turn-based shootout puzzles waiting for you whenever you fancy them. There's always something else you should be doing, of course, but even doing the wrong thing feels pretty good here.
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
I kinda lied and only played a couple of MP games, but it seems just the same as FS1. It now has turn notifications through Steam client btw, in addition to email option.

I've been more or less having a blast with the campaign though. That thing I said about it not feeling puzzle-y enough, well it seems like it's getting there. There are multi-stage missions, sometimes multiple buildings to breach-and-clear, and occasionally the procedural part of the city fucks you over and you get to squirm like a worm in a Worms singleplayer campaign. Although you can still bring a rocket guy to any mission you wish, so you're still in control much more than in FS1. I thought 7 relics was some kind of milestone and was afraid the campaign was already wrapping up, but I'm at 12 and it doesn't seem like it is. It's a bit more stable now as well, maybe the patch helped, but it still crashes every time you exit.

For people thinking about giving this a try: the most relevant thing is probably that strategic layer is very far from X-Com. You don't manage construction, vehicles or fuel, your vatform casualties regenerate without any drawbacks, you can lose entire squad and have it rebuilt for free. So in the end, cityscape only acts as a kind of a wrapper for random missions - you could play those in FS1 just as well. It's also really easy to piss factions off, so personally I've just been playing it safe, only taking quests to kill raiders and deliver stuff. Faction dynamics help keep it together, but it's not really a layer on its own. The core is still tactics. Tactics-wise, I'd probably recommend going for ironman right away, because without it there's now a button to rewind to any turn you wish. I'd say that's the worst design decision, as it lifts alll the weight off of the "prime" button. Your squads regenerate just the same on ironman, but you can just uninstall regen tanks at HQ if you want permadeath. Other than that, tactical layer is just FS1 with a couple more units. I do miss the "watch entire battle" button though, used to give the same feeling in FS1 as watching a working solution in a Zachtronics game. Hope it gets added back at a later date.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Mode 7 scales down in-house game development, and will focus on publishing and smaller projects. Co-founder leaves the company to join a health tech startsup: https://blog.mode7games.com/mode-shift-ffd3a0105844

Mode Shift

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After a lot of mutual discussion and thought, my co-founder Ian Hardingham has decided to leave Mode 7 and hang up his game design hat.

He has now joined Oxford Brain Diagnostics as their Chief Technology Officer. They are a tremendously impressive company and I’m going to be fascinated to follow their future efforts as they work on the early detection of Alzheimer’s.

Ian is an immense talent and it’s been an honour (and sometimes, yes, even a pleasure) to work with him on some excellent things for the last 15 years or so. I know everyone from the games industry will want to send him their love and best wishes for his new direction — I’m sure you’ll see him pop up from time to time.

I also know that this is going to be a disappointment to the parts of our community who were hoping to see more strategy titles from Ian and myself, so we’re sorry that’s not going to happen. Your support for this ridiculous endeavour over the years is hugely appreciated.

As we’re no longer developing large-scale indie games in-house, our sysadmin James and level designer Robin are also departing for pastures new. James is already doing great in a new job, while Robin is currently helping us with Frozen Synapse 2 stuff and looking around for his next move. Their support, understanding and reassurance through this period has been hugely valuable — by the same token, both Ian and myself have tried our hardest in every respect to ensure that their transition to new work is a smooth one.

Mode 7 will continue, however. We are going to keep providing support for the existing catalogue of games, and Ian will continue to have some limited involvement there.

New things will happen as well, as we shift our focus to publishing and smaller creative projects…

Publishing

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The Colonists by Codebyfire

After the success of both Tokyo 42 and The Colonists, we will be publishing more titles from other devs, so please continue to add to the deluge of pitches in my inbox.

My plan is to continue releasing a small number of games, but giving each title significant attention to help it get made and help it to reach an audience. There are some really interesting games being developed on a small scale right now that deserve to make that connection, and I’m keen to find more of them.

I hope to have something new to announce on this front very soon…

nervous_testpilot

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My first personal project this year is Wardialler, a small solo narrative game that I announced last month. It’ll be on show in the Leftfield Collection at Rezzed, so I look forward to seeing you there in you’re in the UK.

Please do follow me on Twitter and Soundcloud to keep up to date on that.


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I’m interested in continuing to explore the idea of pairing albums with smaller games. Any projects which emerge from this will come out under the nervous_testpilot banner.

You should see an increase in purely musical output from me as well, as I have another album project slated after the completion of Wardialler.

Collaboration
Over the past couple of years I’ve personally become much more involved with the wider industry, through working with UK Games Fund, consulting for other studios, working on the education side of games, and contributing to the exciting work going on at BGI. This has been very rewarding and it’s something I plan to continue.

If you feel that my input could be valuable in any way, please just give me a shout.
 

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