*redacted*

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Fallout NV is a great game, as is Bloodlines or MOTB. I find it better than Fallout but less than Fallout 2 or Wasteland. You spoiled children just make me sick, tired of your bullshit.
Fallout 1 is not even a grognard game, just a dumbed down Wasteland. But it was Your First Rpg. Even if NV mechanics suck, it's much more complex. Do you really think that Fallout mechanics are great? Ian thinks the same while he shoots you in the back.

 

[shihonage]

Fallout NV is a great game, as is Bloodlines or MOTB. I find it better than Fallout but less than Fallout 2 or Wasteland. You spoiled children just make me sick, tired of your bullshit.
Fallout 1 is not even a grognard game, just a dumbed down Wasteland. But it was Your First Rpg. Even if NV mechanics suck, it's much more complex. Do you really think that Fallout mechanics are great? Ian thinks the same while he shoots you in the back.

GB2NMA, you edgy thing. They had a recent influx of contrarian douchebags.

I'm also on NMA though, so I'll rip you a new one over there.

There's no escape.

 

[DalekFlay]

Brofisted for honesty, and it's true old games have flaws people on here ignore while nitpicking newer games.

That said Fallout is the best Fallout.

 

[shihonage]

it's true old games have flaws people on here ignore while nitpicking newer games

I've not seen that happening. The flaws of the 16-year-old Fallout are widely known and well-documented. The problem lies with those who refuse to acknowledge that despite its flaws, the gross total sum of what the game did _right_, still remains largely unsurpassed by most other RPGs, including, most notably, its modern sequels.

In fact, the problem lies with those who refuse to acknowledge the much more severe flaws in the latter.

That said Fallout is the best Fallout.

And so it is.

 

[DalekFlay]

I've not seen that happening. The flaws of the 16-year-old Fallout are widely known and well-documented. The problem lies with those who refuse to acknowledge that despite its flaws, the gross total sum of what the game did _right_, still remains largely unsurpassed by most other RPGs, including, most notably, its modern sequels.

Depends on the argument and person, definitely. I've seen some inane bullshit nitpicking and I've seen some clever deconstruction of the decline. It all depends.

 

[InnerPartisan]

Fallout NV is a great game, as is Bloodlines or MOTB. I find it better than Fallout but less than Fallout 2 or Wasteland.

OFT.
New Vegas' (and Bloodlines', for that matter) failings, mistakes and errors on a game-play level are both blatant and plentiful.
But that shouldn't distract anyone from the simple fact that both those games are still damn good RPGs. Everyone who's unable to comprehend that is an entitled, sniveling moron.

 

[Metro]

Not saying it's bad but New Vegas is one of the most overrated games on the Codex.

 

[oljebox]

So ... I reached New Vegas and I ran into the House 38 bug. God damn it.

Apart from that, there are some other problems. I'm noticing inconsistencies in tone and it's bothering me. As I noted, Goodsprings and its surrounds has that old Gothic feel of danger and loneliness, which is fucking amazing. And then ... then you reach Primm, and Nipton, and finally New Vegas and the feeling dies. It's gradually replaced by bombast and camp. They're not bad things in and of themselves, obviously- the earliest Fallouts used these affectations to good effect. However, in this game they are undesirable when combined with all the other tonalities because you never know what you're supposed to be experiencing because Obsidian's constantly changing the context. It's not even like they're emphasising different parts of the same whole; instead, different sections of the world feel almost like they don't belong together. If they could have stretched the Goodsprings feeling throughout the rest of the game, or introduced more of the New Vegas vibe from the start, that would have been great.

Also, the twist the story took is ... stupid. It might have worked if the developers had eased us into it, but they just dropped these motivations and story threads on us like anvils once we reach the casinos. This is why you don't structure a story with three acts- because then you forget about important stuff like making us believe and invest in what's happening. That's what, for example, act two of a five-act story is for: to expound upon the stakes.

 

[Metro]

Never thought they tried to go for an isolated/Gothic feel. The trope that hits you over the head like a sledgehammer is America's occupation of the Middle East.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

it's true old games have flaws people on here ignore while nitpicking newer games

I've not seen that happening.

Happens all the time, any criticism of the game that is not a well-meaning "Ian is so annoying <3" is met with a barrage of "wtf is wrong with you bro" posts. For example, you were mostly joking, but you still told that guy up there to GTFO with his edgy contrariousness.

The flaws of the 16-year-old Fallout are widely known and well-documented. The problem lies with those who refuse to acknowledge that despite its flaws, the gross total sum of what the game did _right_, still remains largely unsurpassed by most other RPGs, including, most notably, its modern sequels.

Now that's something I haven't see happening here yet. The Codex is basically a Fallout fansite after all, you don't stay here unless you like the game.

 

[oljebox]

Never thought they tried to go for an isolated/Gothic feel. The trope that hits you over the head like a sledgehammer is America's occupation of the Middle East.

In Goodsprings?

 

[shihonage]

Happens all the time, any criticism of the game that is not a well-meaning "Ian is so annoying <3" is met with a barrage of "wtf is wrong with you bro" posts.

Ian shooting you in the back is not a reason to make a mountain out of a molehill. Nobody declared Fallout to be flawless.

For example, you were mostly joking, but you still told that guy up there to GTFO with his edgy contrariousness.

Yeah because he was using the old "Ian shoots you in the back" trope plus the "it's old and busted" 'tardgument to put Fallout below the Gamebryo Walking Simulator.

Since I spent so much time describing why NV sucks, even earlier in this thread, I'm not going to do it again. And narrative/world design is only part of the problem. You think Ian shooting you in the back is annoying, but loading screens upon entering EVERY TINY LITTLE HUT are not?

Sweet motherfucking Moses.



FO1 inventory may be clunky, but FO:NV inventory is a fucking nightmare. FO1 combat may be simplistic but FO:NV combat makes it look like fucking X-Com. FO1 may be low-resolution, but FO:NV is a piss-bucket of visuals that will scale to HD and yet remain a piss-bucket, unless you count the usually inconsistent and incomplete "fan efforts" to the contrary.

FO1 dialogue may be simple and to the point, but that puts it miles ahead of dialogue in most other RPGs including the "programmer-speak" dialogue of FO:NV.

And there are many other details that you only remember when playing the game, such as your char noticing a medpak in a nearby locker with high PER. Catching the water thief in the Vault 13 at a certain time. Having your dialogue interrupted by assassination attempt on Killian. Town "losers" greeting you as you pass by.

FO1 was a true RPG as they were still understood at the time.

FO:NV is Far Cry 3 with shitty combat, ugly graphics, and a heavier focus on dialogue and stat checks.

Now that's something I haven't see happening here yet. The Codex is basically a Fallout fansite after all, you don't stay here unless you like the game.

Can you read? If so, I suggest you start with the post you are defending, where he says that Fallout is a "dumbed-down Wasteland" and that people like it mostly because it's baby's first RPG.

Then you may move on to Infinitron/Grunker's thread on the same subject.

 

[DalekFlay]

A ton of that is more "I don't like how modern games work" than "I don't like how New Vegas works."

 

[shihonage]

A ton of that is more "I don't like how modern games work" than "I don't like how New Vegas works."

Modern games? You mean like Path of Exile, with usable inventory and an isometric perspective? Or even Diablo3 perhaps? What about the new X-Com with turn-based combat?

And FYI, some of Gamebryo's major problems, such as its inability to handle indoor-outdoor transitions, are actually "old" problems that were solved by other games 15 years ago. Tribes had indoor-outdoor transitions. It was considered revolutionary. Back in 1998. Quake had a brown palette due to memory and color limitations. Back in 1996.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

See, that's what I was talking about. Ian shooting you in the back is not a real problem, you can't use it to put Fallout below other game. You popamole fucker. New Vegas has a lot of loading screens, you know!

While you rationally accept Fallout isn't perfect, when someone says it out loud you start defending it like it's an underrated game that no one here appreciates.

 

[Metro]

Never thought they tried to go for an isolated/Gothic feel. The trope that hits you over the head like a sledgehammer is America's occupation of the Middle East.

In Goodsprings?

Sure it's there to some extent but you're talking about the starting/tutorial area of the game. Anyway, the lack of challenge or 'apprehension' of dying to the surrounding hostiles undercuts any sort of 'Gothic' type helplessness. As you note, after progressing thirty or so minutes it dramatically shifts to the Afghanistan/Iraq feel.

 

[shihonage]

See, that's what I was talking about. Ian shooting you in the back is not a real problem, you can't use it to put Fallout below other game. You popamole fucker. New Vegas has a lot of loading screens, you know!

While you rationally accept Fallout isn't perfect, when someone says it out loud you start defending it like it's an underrated game that no one here appreciates.

I don't have this reaction to people pointing out that Fallout "isn't perfect", which includes people mentioning that "Ian shoots you in the back". I do react this way when people put thoroughly mediocre games on the pedestal of which Fallout is much more worthy.

When someone offers me candy and then also adds that my mother is a slut and I react aggressively to the latter, it's intellectually dishonest to claim that my reaction was caused by my intense hatred of candy. Understand?

As tired as this will sound, you should really learn to read. This is not an insult, just a strong suggestion. Learn to read, then stop making outrageously false claims.

Till then.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Alpha defensive as fuck. Sacred cows, fansite, etc. No biggie, at least you're getting upset over a good game.

 

[shihonage]

Saying that someone is "defensive" is not an argument. Read the exchange, understand that I reacted to someone claiming that FO:NV is superior to the old-and-busted Fallout, stop using "Ian" as a strawman, then try at a rational reply that is actually relevant to the conversation.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Nobody declared Fallout to be flawless, but if you point one flaw I'll keep saying it's not a real problem and you should learn to read (it's a stealthy way of calling you retarded over and over without making it look like I'm upset, you see)

 

[shihonage]

The fact that I'm upset was clearly evident and I made no attempt to hide it.

What I did there is called "giving you benefit of the doubt", but now you've spoken once more and removed all doubt.

 

[oljebox]

Never thought they tried to go for an isolated/Gothic feel. The trope that hits you over the head like a sledgehammer is America's occupation of the Middle East.

In Goodsprings?

Sure it's there to some extent but you're talking about the starting/tutorial area of the game.

That's part of my point. The starting area is the player's introduction to the world. That's when you tell the player what they can expect. With Goodsprings, Obsidian tells us we're going to be playing a technologically anachronistic Western with odd humour, and by the time we get to New Vegas the game's turned into something altogether more manic.

Contrast that with something like ... Baldur's Gate. (Everyone's played BG, right?) Candlekeep sets the tone for the rest of the game- all of it- within the first thirty minutes. There's no confusion as to what they're going for, what you're supposed to be feeling, how you're supposed to react to events, what your goals are. As another counterpoint to NV, notice how they introduce the overarching story thread. It's there right from the beginning and is developed, fleshed out, and given nuance throughout the rest of the game. NV leaves you confused until you get to Vegas, at which point it beats you into submission with a bunch of exposition from a handful of characters within the span of five minutes.

That's not how to do it.

Addendum: mystery plots work when the audience/player proxy is sufficiently defined at the beginning, which definition acts as an anchor for the audience/player to hold to as they get their bearings. The problem is that your character in NV isn't that anchor, and can't be, because you start with what amounts to a non-character.

 

[Gurkog]

Fallout was short and bland to the point where I only remember the death animations, harold, and the master. Fallout 2 was much better in most, if not all, aspects. Fallout 1/2 look worse than NV, and I played them when they came out. Fallout 1/2 were also buggy messes until patched up, and still needed fan patches to iron out annoyances, just like the newer ones. Shit... The dialog in NV is worse though, but that is a limitation of full voice acting - which is an acceptable argument in favor of the oldies.

Fuck I am dead tired and probably make absolutely no sense... I will regret posting this in the morning.

 

[Commissar Draco]

So ... I reached New Vegas and I ran into the House 38 bug. God damn it.

Apart from that, there are some other problems. I'm noticing inconsistencies in tone and it's bothering me. As I noted, Goodsprings and its surrounds has that old Gothic feel of danger and loneliness, which is fucking amazing. And then ... then you reach Primm, and Nipton, and finally New Vegas and the feeling dies. It's gradually replaced by bombast and camp. They're not bad things in and of themselves, obviously- the earliest Fallouts used these affectations to good effect. However, in this game they are undesirable when combined with all the other tonalities because you never know what you're supposed to be experiencing because Obsidian's constantly changing the context. It's not even like they're emphasising different parts of the same whole; instead, different sections of the world feel almost like they don't belong together. If they could have stretched the Goodsprings feeling throughout the rest of the game, or introduced more of the New Vegas vibe from the start, that would have been great.

Also, the twist the story took is ... stupid. It might have worked if the developers had eased us into it, but they just dropped these motivations and story threads on us like anvils once we reach the casinos. This is why you don't structure a story with three acts- because then you forget about important stuff like making us believe and invest in what's happening. That's what, for example, act two of a five-act story is for: to expound upon the stakes.

Its Funny cause Goodsprings, Prim and New Vegas are all based on RL Locations; the game shows how odinary people lives (XIXc Old West style) than the dangers of still untamed wasteland beyond, shows how incompetent if well meaning NCR is, introduces the main protagonist faction the Legion and their brand of harsh frontier justice and finally the false glamor of Mr House Vegas. The journey which takes you to around 15-20 level introduces you to comparisons and allows you to take informed decision what to with this damn chip after you meet Benny. All of this done organic and gradually without Deus Ex Machina and BS Cut Scenes. You can try to sneak between Casadores, Fiends and Deathclaws and get there sooner too if you're quick, perceptive and good at sneaking lucky. As to motivation what else you need than the desire to met and confront an asshole who left you in shallow grave with 9mm bullet lodged in your scull? How can you be confused about this? Don you need quest compass and Patrick Stewart to tell you what to do? And since when having diverse themes in one game is bad thing? I enjoyed Morrowind lot more than bland and constant Oblivion... Which was Lore Rape on Coolest Province of Tamariel.

 

[shihonage]

Fallout was short and bland to the point where I only remember the death animations, harold, and the master.

Completists will complete. When you play Fallout like Diablo, all you get from it is Diablo.

Fallout 2 was much better in most, if not all, aspects.

It had way more "content". Completists rejoice. But I don't have a problem with people preferring Fallout 2, because it inherited Fallout's engine and superior way of handling world interactivity.

Despite the derp it poisoned its world with, the derp that led us to the "lulz" in Fallout 3 and cowboy robots in FO:NV, it was still solid gameplay-wise. I'd take it over FO:NV any day.

Fallout 1/2 look worse than NV, and I played them when they came out.

They have color, personality, and detail. FO:NV looks like a collection of stock models made in China.

Fallout 1/2 were also buggy messes until patched up, and still needed fan patches to iron out annoyances, just like the newer ones.

Fallout 1 was perfectly playable at release. Fallout 2 was an unplayable buggy mess.

Shit... The dialog in NV is worse though, but that is a limitation of full voice acting - which is an acceptable argument in favor of the oldies.

No, it's a limitation of inferior writing and sterile world design.

Fuck I am dead tired and probably make absolutely no sense... I will regret posting this in the morning.

I hate to say it but kinda hope you do regret posting this in the morning