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Squeenix Final Fantasy XIII

Zarniwoop

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[ It never gets hardcore or particularly challenging, at least so far,

It gets very JRPG near the end. You could call that challenging, I just call it frustrating. You have to either be very over-leveled (hard in a game that linear) or use exactly the right paradigm at exactly the right time, which you can only discover through the magic of the Internets, or being a Japanese autist with way too much time.
 

Zetor

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I'm about 7 hours in, just reached chapter 5. How far until the combat system finally unlocks? I think the *concept* of the FF13 battle system is an interesting deconstruction of standard JRPG combat. The party chooses the most optimal spell/ability depending on the circumstances (and their knowledge of enemy weaknesses, ie through libra) and high-level combat strategy ('turtle up' / 'buff/debuff' / 'go all-out')... and there's even a bonus for taking risks at the right time!

My problem is more with the execution, and how samey / boring all fights were so far... also, timing paradigm shifts is way too twitchy for a jRPG. There's not really much space for variance... oh sure, I can queue Lightning's attack up myself, but it won't be any more efficient than just choosing auto-battle*. And having to buttonmash all the time gets old.


* the only exception I remember so far was fighting those robots with Sazh/Vanille, where I had to stagger them by first using buffs/debuffs, then switching to ravager/commando and making sure that Sazh kept attacking every few seconds to keep the chain from dropping. If I just autoattacked through that, the chain would drop between waiting for 3 ATB segments, and the fight would take forever since the robots had insane defenses when not staggered...
 

Bahamut

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I'm about 7 hours in, just reached chapter 5. How far until the combat system finally unlocks?

After you beat the game :troll:

But for serious chapter 11/Pulse is the core of the gameplay, but theres serious grinding there or some mobs there will just literaly roflstomp there
 
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Crooked Bee

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Zetor, you have about halfway to go until the combat system is fully unlocked (chapter 10)- the first chapters are just an insignificant warmup really.

Yeah, like I said I find the idea of the combat system to be a nice take on the job system. The further i progress the more important both timing (including not waiting until your gauge fills up fully as well as keeping track of your teammates' timing) and paradigm switching becomes. Though again, nothing too hardcore so far. I do see how what Zarniwoop describes can get frustrating later in the game though.

I must also admit I like how 'twitchy' it is as you put it and often I don't just go for auto-battle because the AI, while okay, is not perfect.

I also forgot to mention that I do enjoy the ranking system. You really need to finish battles fast for that 5 star score. It is a kinda 'wrong' way to add tension because it doesn't influence much, but it still keeps me on my toes

Anyway I would write even more words but i have to go now.
 

felipepepe

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Honestly, I'm not seeing why the game got so much flak or why the fans got their panties in a bunch over this particular entry in the series. (Could be because I'm not really a fan of the series so the finer details may escape me.)
Not to be edgy, but most so-called Final Fantasy fans are idiots that don't understand the series. They just want a "next FFVII". A lot of criticism was just IT DOESN'T PLAY LIKE FINAL FANTASY!

Other than that, I agree with everything you said. That's part of why I enjoy FF XIII-2 so much, because it reduces the linearity and adds the "Pokemon" aspect to spice the job system up.
 

Zetor

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I'm just halfway through the tutorial after 7 hours? Holy shit, I didn't know things could get this bad. Thanks for the info, Bahamut / CB!

Yeah, I'll wait until the entire system unlocks before a final judgment... but so far it's basically just buttonmashing and frantically trying to select the right target (such as a healer/buffer) to not lose precious seconds of ATB charge time -- paradigm shifting resets the ATBs too, right? Makes me feel like I'm fighting the interface instead of the enemies (who may as well be generic buckets of HP at this point, for the most part). I actually think this system could work decently as RTWP, especially if it allowed me to control all of my teammates if I wanted to, sorta like KOTOR without the suck... but this will probably change as I unlock more options for the main character.

Random question: after a surprise attack, all enemies start with like 99% on the chain gauge, right? What I'd want to do is get a single hit on each of them to put at least 2/3 of them into stagger, then proceed to melt them one by one, probably killing one or two before they can even do anything. Is that possible / feasible to do? Having to do manual single-gauge attacks and retargets is super annoying (using mouse/keyboard here).


edit: as for non-combat stuff, the plot is imo mediocre, at least up to ch5. Of the characters, two are decent (fang, sazh), one is ok (lightning -- yeah, my standards for FF protagonists are pretty low), and I kinda want to punch the rest of them in the face. Thankfully the game does just that in the cutscenes...
 
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abnaxus

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I did about half the missions in chapter 11 and played through the rest of the chapter normally. At the beginning of chapter 12 this meant I had stage 8 of the three primary roles of my characters maxed or mostly maxed. Endgame wasn't hard at all (Lightning gets a skill that increases enemies' chain gauge to 999.9%, p. useful).

Of course they put an optional adamantoise right at the end of chapter 12 for trolling purposes.

Chapter 11 is p. fun, though. There are enemies there that can roflstomp your entire party, but can also be killed very quickly with the right party setup if you manage a pre-emptive strike.

Random question: after a surprise attack, all enemies start with like 99% on the chain gauge, right? What I'd want to do is get a single hit on each of them to put at least 2/3 of them into stagger, then proceed to melt them one by one, probably killing one or two before they can even do anything. Is that possible / feasible to do? Having to do manual single-gauge attacks and retargets is super annoying (using mouse/keyboard here).
If enemies are close you can use Blitz or AoE spells.
 

Raghar

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FFA166C9B76C1189EE4A909DC8442F208B474A5B


screenshot_2014-10-30fusd6.jpg
 

Zarniwoop

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Wait a minute, does this thread mean the hivemind is realising that FFXIII is not Teh worst game evar(TM) and actually has some good moments hiding among the tedium?

That the reviews were written by butthurt Gamejournopros deprived of Doritos and mtn.dw, bcs w dnt s vwls nmr?
 

Duraframe300

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Of course they put an optional adamantoise right at the end of chapter 12 for trolling purposes.
.

Not entirly. You can go back there postgame, its a decent farming spot for platinum ignots. When you finish the missions it becomes more important asthey get replaced on the steppe.
 

Crooked Bee

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Lol, some of these enemies don't fuck around. (Got around to the open world-ish part finally. I just wish it hadn't taken so long to get to this point.) Finally, the world feels appropriately dangerous to explore.

Also, Zetor, I don't think the ATB gauge resets completely when switching paradigms. I can't say I've figured out the exact mechanics yet though.

Wait a minute, does this thread mean the hivemind is realising that FFXIII is not Teh worst game evar(TM) and actually has some good moments hiding among the tedium?

Dunno about the hivemind (most people here dismiss JRPGs altogether), but personally I think it's a decent game with some good bits here and there (such as e.g. the design - if not always the implementation - of the combat system or the chapter 11 exploration).
 
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Crooked Bee

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Yeah, that actually got me curious enough to google. Not sure I had/noticed that particular glitch, but here's the explanation I found for when the gauge resets and when it doesn't:

You can switch to a different paradigm at any time, but you would be better off to at least wait until the current turn is over. If you still have commands being executed, they will be canceled if you change to a different paradigm. When you switch to a new paradigm, the ATB bar is either reset or completely full.

If you have been in the current paradigm for at least two turns and switch to a different one, then the ATB bar will be completely full for your entire party. For this reason, I tend to spend at least two turns in each paradigm. Sometimes I switch to a new paradigm not because the current one isn't working, but rather I want to get a full bar and so I switch to a different paradigm that would also work for the current fight. Actually, if you switch to a different paradigm on every turn, you will get a full ATB bar on every other paradigm.

If you don't like to use that many different paradigms, you might consider creating two copies of your fighting paradigm (I tend to use Relentless Assault) next to each other. You can then spend two times on the first paradigm, switch to the second one for two turns, and then back to the first. Why would you do that? Because each time you switch you will have a full ATB bar, which means no wait for that attack. Not as good as haste, but a help.

http://billpringle.com/games/ffxiii_paradigms.html

EDIT: Also this thread explains it: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/619315-final-fantasy-xiii-2/62789178 Nevermind, that's for FFXIII-2, though it looks like it works about the same way there.
 
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Zeriel

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Lol, some of these enemies don't fuck around. (Got around to the open world-ish part finally. I just wish it hadn't taken so long to get to this point.) Finally, the world feels appropriately dangerous to explore.

Also, Zeriel, I don't think the ATB gauge resets completely when switching paradigms. I can't say I've figured out the exact mechanics yet though.

Wait a minute, does this thread mean the hivemind is realising that FFXIII is not Teh worst game evar(TM) and actually has some good moments hiding among the tedium?

Dunno about the hivemind (most people here dismiss JRPGs altogether), but personally I think it's a decent game with some good bits here and there (such as e.g. the design - if not always the implementation - of the combat system or the chapter 11 exploration).

You tagged the wrong person. :3

0562_e02e_500.gif


ps ilu
 

Bahamut

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Fighting the final boss, party leader dying by accident is pissing me off, retrying and draining his bloated health bar is taking to long
 

Duraframe300

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Yeah, that actually got me curious enough to google. Not sure I had/noticed that particular glitch, but here's the explanation I found for when the gauge resets and when it doesn't:

You can switch to a different paradigm at any time, but you would be better off to at least wait until the current turn is over. If you still have commands being executed, they will be canceled if you change to a different paradigm. When you switch to a new paradigm, the ATB bar is either reset or completely full.

If you have been in the current paradigm for at least two turns and switch to a different one, then the ATB bar will be completely full for your entire party. For this reason, I tend to spend at least two turns in each paradigm. Sometimes I switch to a new paradigm not because the current one isn't working, but rather I want to get a full bar and so I switch to a different paradigm that would also work for the current fight. Actually, if you switch to a different paradigm on every turn, you will get a full ATB bar on every other paradigm.

If you don't like to use that many different paradigms, you might consider creating two copies of your fighting paradigm (I tend to use Relentless Assault) next to each other. You can then spend two times on the first paradigm, switch to the second one for two turns, and then back to the first. Why would you do that? Because each time you switch you will have a full ATB bar, which means no wait for that attack. Not as good as haste, but a help.

http://billpringle.com/games/ffxiii_paradigms.html

EDIT: Also this thread explains it: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/619315-final-fantasy-xiii-2/62789178 Nevermind, that's for FFXIII-2, though it looks like it works about the same way there.

Its not a glitch afaik (Maybe it started out as one though). Intended behavior. Fully mastering ATB Cancelling can benefit your time immensly. Though I never thought its 100% necessary to learn.
 

Grinolf

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Wait a minute, does this thread mean the hivemind is realising that FFXIII is not Teh worst game evar(TM) and actually has some good moments hiding among the tedium?

That the reviews were written by butthurt Gamejournopros deprived of Doritos and mtn.dw, bcs w dnt s vwls nmr?
Putting matters of steady degradation of quality standards and rapid rise of apologetic attitude on the last couple pages aside, who are these game journalists you talking about? The ones that gave this game 83 score on metacritic? Or my understanding of scoring system get to old and 83 is also in the shit tier in this days?
 

Zetor

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Lol, some of these enemies don't fuck around. (Got around to the open world-ish part finally. I just wish it hadn't taken so long to get to this point.) Finally, the world feels appropriately dangerous to explore.

Also, Zetor, I don't think the ATB gauge resets completely when switching paradigms. I can't say I've figured out the exact mechanics yet though.

Wait a minute, does this thread mean the hivemind is realising that FFXIII is not Teh worst game evar(TM) and actually has some good moments hiding among the tedium?

Dunno about the hivemind (most people here dismiss JRPGs altogether), but personally I think it's a decent game with some good bits here and there (such as e.g. the design - if not always the implementation - of the combat system or the chapter 11 exploration).
Yea, that explanation about ATB resets with paradigm shifting makes sense -- devs probably wanted to make it possible to react quickly to situations (medic to save people from dying, saboteur/synergist to react to shifting enemy attacks/vulns), so they had to add in a way to insta-refill everyone's ATBs. Stance dancing, awww yeah.

Just finished ch5, and I think my biggest beef with the combat is how hectic it is to aim AOEs with the standard ATB speed (spend more than a split-second, and you're gimping your damage/chains!). I tried setting the ATB speed to slow, but that just made sure that I can't get over 3 stars (the 'par time' doesn't change). sad face.
 

Zarniwoop

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Can't wait for people to encounter Long Gui's. :P
Fuck those giant stompy faggots. :argh:
Putting matters of steady degradation of quality standards and rapid rise of apologetic attitude on the last couple pages aside, who are these game journalists you talking about? The ones that gave this game 83 score on metacritic? Or my understanding of scoring system get to old and 83 is also in the shit tier in this days?
I seem to remember lower scores. But even so, it's been treated like the worst game ever and completely unplayable on the Codex and other sites. Especially by those who liked the rest of the FF serirs. The game has plenty of issues, but it's... Well... Good for what it is: A decent interactive movie with bits of actual game poking through here and there.
 
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Honestly, I'm not seeing why the game got so much flak or why the fans got their panties in a bunch over this particular entry in the series. (Could be because I'm not really a fan of the series so the finer details may escape me.)

Mostly because of:

The first 10-15 or so hours which are just pure corridors with mostly thoughtless fights. Does the player really needs that much time to learn the ropes of the game's - or hell, any - combat system? I don't mind the linearity tbh, but I do mind the slow start when it comes to actual gameplay. It didn't have to take that long to reach the above screenshot, seriously Squanix.

FF have always been pretty linear (with optional sidequests sprinkled around) and full of trash battles, so the reactions were mainly about the story taking way too long to pick up. About the corridors, FF12 had big open areas and people called it a "singleplayer MMO", so maybe Square took the criticism a bit too seriously. :M
 

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