Zep Zepo
Titties and Beer
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Squeenix Final Fantasy 15
- Thread starter Nugs
- Start date
Doktor Best
Arcane
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I am talking about the princess on the left, what about you?
Modron
Arcane
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- May 5, 2012
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- 10,042
I agree but what are your thoughts on the girl?
things do get awkward when a 15-year-old wants ur dink
This is probably the princess with the most punchable face in the history of princesses with a punchable face, maybe ever.
ilitarist
Learned
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- Oct 17, 2016
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Played FF15 a little.
My feelings on this are very similar to my feelings on Nier Automata. Both games want to be systemic and narrative-driven at the same time. FF15 obviously had millions of moneys thrown at it so it has bigger world, more diverse enemies, more NPCs and more of everything. So at least you don't get bored of fighting the same types of enemies. I also feel that combat system is much more involving while still far from tactical combat I'd wanted. Nier world difficulty is tied to story progression and it's almost impossible to meet anyone you couldn't beat with autoattack (at least on default difficulty level), plus the enemies in Nier are more homogenous and there's just fewer things you can do in combat. Slashing and shooting the shooty thing was enough for everything I've encountered. In FF15 I can venture into zones beyond my level and get something good from there. In a manner reminding me of Might & Magic you have to plan your trips around the length of your food buff and where you end up spending money on rest which multiplies acquired XP. Economy works, you need money to buy ingridients for said buffs (and also for spell crafting) and monsters don't drop money, you have incentive to do sidequests.
But then again they're similar in progression system. Everything interesting and useful you can get in first few hours of the game. In Niear automatic use of item (it's even more effective than using items yourself!) effectively makes you immortal outside of random 1-hit kills, then you get some vampirism, counter, maybe some defense... And after 1/6 of the game you don't really want to add anything to your repertoire. In FF15 there are more of various abilities, mostly in teamwork and combat Skyrim skilltrees, other skills trees offer some cheap abilities that are little helpful... And after that when I look at those skills I see hours of grind for some dubious benefits. The only thing I care still (chapter 7, shortly after the photo with the princess) are stat boosting skills (they cost 99 AP and give you +1thing/level), there are 5 of them and I already got 2. Everything else is meh. This makes all the systemic feel of the game crumble.
Sidequests are designed to be something you engage in on your way somewhere or purely out of greed. In a good RPG I grind with a feeling of joy, it's like lifting weights knowing that you'll be able to lift more in a short while. In Final Fantasy 9 I grind for AP to learn that thing from an item and switch to another item getting access to an interesting ability. In games with job systems I grind to make supersoldiers with all kinds of abilities. You don't need sidequests to force me to grind, it's not a chore, it's a joy. But here once I have enough money sidequests feel redundant. Yeah, the game throws at me giant monsters from time to time reminding me that there's plenty of growth to do still, but I know there won't be much interesting in that growth. Don't even think those relics I find make for more interesting builds. Only the biggest hunts give you a challenge, sometimes it makes sense to run away, get specific spells and eat specific buffs and return. Well, at least this game has a better Witcher gameplay than Witcher 3 did.
My feelings on this are very similar to my feelings on Nier Automata. Both games want to be systemic and narrative-driven at the same time. FF15 obviously had millions of moneys thrown at it so it has bigger world, more diverse enemies, more NPCs and more of everything. So at least you don't get bored of fighting the same types of enemies. I also feel that combat system is much more involving while still far from tactical combat I'd wanted. Nier world difficulty is tied to story progression and it's almost impossible to meet anyone you couldn't beat with autoattack (at least on default difficulty level), plus the enemies in Nier are more homogenous and there's just fewer things you can do in combat. Slashing and shooting the shooty thing was enough for everything I've encountered. In FF15 I can venture into zones beyond my level and get something good from there. In a manner reminding me of Might & Magic you have to plan your trips around the length of your food buff and where you end up spending money on rest which multiplies acquired XP. Economy works, you need money to buy ingridients for said buffs (and also for spell crafting) and monsters don't drop money, you have incentive to do sidequests.
But then again they're similar in progression system. Everything interesting and useful you can get in first few hours of the game. In Niear automatic use of item (it's even more effective than using items yourself!) effectively makes you immortal outside of random 1-hit kills, then you get some vampirism, counter, maybe some defense... And after 1/6 of the game you don't really want to add anything to your repertoire. In FF15 there are more of various abilities, mostly in teamwork and combat Skyrim skilltrees, other skills trees offer some cheap abilities that are little helpful... And after that when I look at those skills I see hours of grind for some dubious benefits. The only thing I care still (chapter 7, shortly after the photo with the princess) are stat boosting skills (they cost 99 AP and give you +1thing/level), there are 5 of them and I already got 2. Everything else is meh. This makes all the systemic feel of the game crumble.
Sidequests are designed to be something you engage in on your way somewhere or purely out of greed. In a good RPG I grind with a feeling of joy, it's like lifting weights knowing that you'll be able to lift more in a short while. In Final Fantasy 9 I grind for AP to learn that thing from an item and switch to another item getting access to an interesting ability. In games with job systems I grind to make supersoldiers with all kinds of abilities. You don't need sidequests to force me to grind, it's not a chore, it's a joy. But here once I have enough money sidequests feel redundant. Yeah, the game throws at me giant monsters from time to time reminding me that there's plenty of growth to do still, but I know there won't be much interesting in that growth. Don't even think those relics I find make for more interesting builds. Only the biggest hunts give you a challenge, sometimes it makes sense to run away, get specific spells and eat specific buffs and return. Well, at least this game has a better Witcher gameplay than Witcher 3 did.
ilitarist
Learned
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- Oct 17, 2016
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- 857
No, I meant those things you equip besides weapons. Like Iron Bangle or Amethist Amulet or something. Give stat bonuses. I think they're called relics, they look like the ones in Final Fantasy 6, especially with you being able to use 2 of them for most of the game.
Royal weapons are poorly explained. Yeah, they're powerful but I don't get if they have a specific weapon type or not - I mean should I use Royal Spear against enemies weak to spear or they're separate class of weapons?.. They also give passive bonuses so it makes sense to stick them into every slot except the one weapon you actually use. And sometimes swithc one of them for a spell. Strange they allow you to change equipment whenever you want.
Royal weapons are poorly explained. Yeah, they're powerful but I don't get if they have a specific weapon type or not - I mean should I use Royal Spear against enemies weak to spear or they're separate class of weapons?.. They also give passive bonuses so it makes sense to stick them into every slot except the one weapon you actually use. And sometimes swithc one of them for a spell. Strange they allow you to change equipment whenever you want.
FF series now part of the Dodge-Roll Genre has almost completely done away with party mechanics and stuff like attributes or actual itemization each entry is easier and more casual than the past one...
meanwhile
DQ series still turn-based and still focused on party mechanics actually increases scope of its class system and class changing mechanics features ever growing itemization design has crafting system for gear and when porting most recent game to the West it adds a new Hard Mode difficulty setting.
yet both are from the same company.
:mystery:
Id love to see some global sales data of DQ 11 versus FF 15 in about 2 years or so once the western release of PS4 and PC version of DQ 11 has had time to sell.
meanwhile
DQ series still turn-based and still focused on party mechanics actually increases scope of its class system and class changing mechanics features ever growing itemization design has crafting system for gear and when porting most recent game to the West it adds a new Hard Mode difficulty setting.
yet both are from the same company.
:mystery:
Id love to see some global sales data of DQ 11 versus FF 15 in about 2 years or so once the western release of PS4 and PC version of DQ 11 has had time to sell.
vonAchdorf
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 13,465
FF15 has a crafting system for spells and food (and gear through Cid) - it's just not needed. Same is true for the items, you can completely forget about them and finish the game, while in theory your spells, your accessories and even your outfits have different effects and stats. You can craft fire spells with additional ice and lightning damage, which increase your experience gain or heal you.
TheHeroOfTime
Arcane
Some day people will realise that Enix >>> Squaresoft
ilitarist
Learned
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- 857
Wouldn't call Cid quests a crafting system, it's very redundand.
The problem that critical path doesn't require you to do any thinking about your equipment is sad. However this game still allows you to find challenge if you so desire, there are many sidequests that require you to do a lot. I understand you can complete the game around level 50 while there are monsters of level 99 and difference in levels is noticeable. AP costs for many abilities are seem to be there to laugh in your face, they probably wanted some people to pour Disgaea levels of playtime into this game. Only in Disgaea even completing the same level again and again for XP and money may give you ways to improve your play or bring other people to train and here you just learn enemy moveset and scan them for weakness.
I think around FFX they've decided that this is the best way to make a game: critical path is just a tutorial and then the world is opened to you, go do grinding and create the party you want. Kinda like in most strategy games campaign is the tutorial for multiplayer.
The problem that critical path doesn't require you to do any thinking about your equipment is sad. However this game still allows you to find challenge if you so desire, there are many sidequests that require you to do a lot. I understand you can complete the game around level 50 while there are monsters of level 99 and difference in levels is noticeable. AP costs for many abilities are seem to be there to laugh in your face, they probably wanted some people to pour Disgaea levels of playtime into this game. Only in Disgaea even completing the same level again and again for XP and money may give you ways to improve your play or bring other people to train and here you just learn enemy moveset and scan them for weakness.
I think around FFX they've decided that this is the best way to make a game: critical path is just a tutorial and then the world is opened to you, go do grinding and create the party you want. Kinda like in most strategy games campaign is the tutorial for multiplayer.
ilitarist
Learned
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No, each of those games starting with 6 has additional objectives and vanity rewards. They're mostly boring but they're there. I haven't played FF12 & 13 but already in FF9 & FF10 you could breathe through the story relatively quickly. In FF10 you had almost linear character development that gave you everything you need to beat the final boss and you only needed most of mechanics if you went for sidequests. So when we're talking about difficulty and gameplay depth I don't see how it's worse than, say, FF9 which was even more linear and as challenging but
Do you mean you don't like the story? Or you wanted for it to be longer?
EDIT: If you ask me what's wrong with the game I'd say that structuring the game as gradually opening world and then putting you on rails feels like a mistake. They should've put it the other way around, it worked great in some previous titles. Here it's too easy to become overpowered while plowing through the open world.
Do you mean you don't like the story? Or you wanted for it to be longer?
EDIT: If you ask me what's wrong with the game I'd say that structuring the game as gradually opening world and then putting you on rails feels like a mistake. They should've put it the other way around, it worked great in some previous titles. Here it's too easy to become overpowered while plowing through the open world.
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I actually think they did that on purpose, since the game was built to be initially the antithesis of FFXIII ('Versus').
FF13 : corridor => open
FF15 : open => corridor
It's a retarded choice that would have actually made more sense if they had finished the game in time with the original design, but even then, not by much.
ilitarist
Learned
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taxalot, that makes sense.
Still it's strange to me people think that the structure was a problem of FFXIII. I understand it lacks locations like towns where you can go on your own pace, it's basically dungeon after dungeon. But what made me give up on second dungeon was the fact they threw a cutscene after cutscene at me, and almost all of them was poorly written dialogue. I don't like Pillars of Eternity or Torment Numenera verbosity but at least in the end they explained something to me and it's easy to scroll through text. Instead I got emotional performance by Snow about his dead girlfriend, again and again. And then everyone talks about fal'Cie and l'Cie (just say "gods", you weirdos), and to understand anything that happens you have to look into the log. Meanwhile FF games where always easy to grasp even if world seemed superflous, FF7 is about megacorporation sucking life energy from the planet and you get it right away.
Maybe if you'd have some moments of peace and places to learn lore organically instead of through menus it'd feel better. Also they seemed to be really worried players would be overwhelmed with gameplay systems so no character progression or anything to do in combat till hour 3 or 4. Every FF had the structure of corridor => open. Some had opened up a world to you a little giving access to optional stuff in a middle of a game, some only had any real openness right at the end but it works anyway.
Still it's strange to me people think that the structure was a problem of FFXIII. I understand it lacks locations like towns where you can go on your own pace, it's basically dungeon after dungeon. But what made me give up on second dungeon was the fact they threw a cutscene after cutscene at me, and almost all of them was poorly written dialogue. I don't like Pillars of Eternity or Torment Numenera verbosity but at least in the end they explained something to me and it's easy to scroll through text. Instead I got emotional performance by Snow about his dead girlfriend, again and again. And then everyone talks about fal'Cie and l'Cie (just say "gods", you weirdos), and to understand anything that happens you have to look into the log. Meanwhile FF games where always easy to grasp even if world seemed superflous, FF7 is about megacorporation sucking life energy from the planet and you get it right away.
Maybe if you'd have some moments of peace and places to learn lore organically instead of through menus it'd feel better. Also they seemed to be really worried players would be overwhelmed with gameplay systems so no character progression or anything to do in combat till hour 3 or 4. Every FF had the structure of corridor => open. Some had opened up a world to you a little giving access to optional stuff in a middle of a game, some only had any real openness right at the end but it works anyway.
ilitarist
Learned
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Ok, now I'm in chapter 13 and getting really disappointed in the game.
It was bad enough they made Leviathan boss battle unconnected to the game using it's own mechanics. After that one of party members is almost useless. Then another disappears. And now I threw out all my weapons and use completely new system of magic.
Turns out this whole open world was even more pointless than I thought. It was not some way of preparing to the main storyline. It was a completely separate game. Again, that what they did in FF10. There you play most game with linear character progression and can ignore equipment properties and stuff. But then you get to open world and numerous sidequests and all the stuff becomes important, you think what abilities do you need for your characters. Here it's vice versa in a very bizzare way. Very.
It was bad enough they made Leviathan boss battle unconnected to the game using it's own mechanics. After that one of party members is almost useless. Then another disappears. And now I threw out all my weapons and use completely new system of magic.
Turns out this whole open world was even more pointless than I thought. It was not some way of preparing to the main storyline. It was a completely separate game. Again, that what they did in FF10. There you play most game with linear character progression and can ignore equipment properties and stuff. But then you get to open world and numerous sidequests and all the stuff becomes important, you think what abilities do you need for your characters. Here it's vice versa in a very bizzare way. Very.
Falksi
Arcane
Squenix need to take a good look at the figures and decide where to go from here.
The most units sold of any FF game was FF7 - a turn based, classically structured JRPG. (10.9m units sold, $1,274 mil USD)
The next on that list is FFX - a turn based, classically structured JRPG. (10.5m units sold, $1,213 mil USD)
Then we have FFVI & FFVIII - turn based, classically structured JRPGs. (8.9m units sold, $859 mil USD)
FFXV sold 7.3m units, FF XIII-2 sold 3.6m units. Both games combined still didn't beat FF7's sales alone. At what point do the thick cunts start to notice the decline in sales, and realize that turn based, classically structure JRPGs are what sell best, and what their fans want?
The most units sold of any FF game was FF7 - a turn based, classically structured JRPG. (10.9m units sold, $1,274 mil USD)
The next on that list is FFX - a turn based, classically structured JRPG. (10.5m units sold, $1,213 mil USD)
Then we have FFVI & FFVIII - turn based, classically structured JRPGs. (8.9m units sold, $859 mil USD)
FFXV sold 7.3m units, FF XIII-2 sold 3.6m units. Both games combined still didn't beat FF7's sales alone. At what point do the thick cunts start to notice the decline in sales, and realize that turn based, classically structure JRPGs are what sell best, and what their fans want?
Okagron
Prophet
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- Mar 22, 2018
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- 753
Snow was practicing his Jeff Goldblum impersonation from Jurassic Park Lost World.
ilitarist
Learned
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- Oct 17, 2016
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Completed.
I've heard they reworked last chapters. Wonder what they were before. Anyway, the story is fine. Nothing great but so is most videogame stories. I had some problems with specific writing. It was strange that 10 year skip was glossed over. Also everyone knew where Noctis will appear and it was never explained. 10 years of horrors and deamons in the eternal night - and you just get a little hi, let's go kill big boss. But other than that it's fine. Like a road trip with a very limited casts of characters, but they're all OK.
I feel sad for a person who made the battle system. I think he really tried to make it complex and engaging. It's much better than similar systems I've played, I had to do some thinking from time to time, and quicktime events worked fine. And it's very hard to care about it. Even though last "dungeon" has some hard fights you still can run around them. And you can't die as long as you have a potion. In the end game allows to go back to do sidequests and I have no desire of doing so.
I've heard they reworked last chapters. Wonder what they were before. Anyway, the story is fine. Nothing great but so is most videogame stories. I had some problems with specific writing. It was strange that 10 year skip was glossed over. Also everyone knew where Noctis will appear and it was never explained. 10 years of horrors and deamons in the eternal night - and you just get a little hi, let's go kill big boss. But other than that it's fine. Like a road trip with a very limited casts of characters, but they're all OK.
I feel sad for a person who made the battle system. I think he really tried to make it complex and engaging. It's much better than similar systems I've played, I had to do some thinking from time to time, and quicktime events worked fine. And it's very hard to care about it. Even though last "dungeon" has some hard fights you still can run around them. And you can't die as long as you have a potion. In the end game allows to go back to do sidequests and I have no desire of doing so.
People are going to use this mod tools to do a FF7 remake and it will come out sooner and be better than the official one.
You'll see.
You'll see.
vonAchdorf
Arcane
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- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 13,465
Shirtless Prompto mod, when?
ilitarist
Learned
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The Game Analists I've played Ignis & Gladio path but I still had to play the base path with Noctis. Maybe cause I've switched later. That path had helped a little to see how emperor got screwed and Luna's brother died. I suspect not having that path would make me feel similar to how I feel about Gladio & Prompto clearly having some adventures of their own. Gladio gets a scar and doesn't want to talk about it, Prompto mentions he's a clone or something and that is especially strange.
It also seems that we're getting a DLC focused on properly explaining villain's motivation. It's less needed, I think. The thing I didn't like about the villain was the randomness of his powers. He teleports. He switches places with people or make you see other people as him, or he looks like other people. He's also completely immortal. He spreads the plague turning people into demons. And sometimes he gets Alice Cooper make up. Thank god he actually wants Noctis to complete the game and kill him, otherwise we'd have some sort of impossible bullshit conflict.
Cerberus fight seemed to be just there. There were several strong monsters which made me feel like all the ascension stuff was worth something. Do you mean to say that before the change you wouldn't have any difficult fights at all once you set off to Not Venice?
It also seems that we're getting a DLC focused on properly explaining villain's motivation. It's less needed, I think. The thing I didn't like about the villain was the randomness of his powers. He teleports. He switches places with people or make you see other people as him, or he looks like other people. He's also completely immortal. He spreads the plague turning people into demons. And sometimes he gets Alice Cooper make up. Thank god he actually wants Noctis to complete the game and kill him, otherwise we'd have some sort of impossible bullshit conflict.
Cerberus fight seemed to be just there. There were several strong monsters which made me feel like all the ascension stuff was worth something. Do you mean to say that before the change you wouldn't have any difficult fights at all once you set off to Not Venice?
Echo Mirage
Arcane
Welp, in true square Enix fashion it's on sale at 33% off.
Right, so I bought a new controller (the Xbox "Elite", which has programmable back-buttons like the Z-Trigger in the old N64 controller) and I wanted to play something indisputably designed for controller I decided to remove Final Fantasy 15 from inventory...
...and it's actually kind of fun. I was expecting something so atrocious it would be nigh-unplayable but I've already sunk around 4 hours into it and I'm enjoying it so far.
I'm also playing a 16-bit style indie platformer called Owlboy which is quite good.
EDIT: Oh, I went back and played some Nier: Automata with the controller and my god... it's sooooooo much better than with mouse and keyboard.
...and it's actually kind of fun. I was expecting something so atrocious it would be nigh-unplayable but I've already sunk around 4 hours into it and I'm enjoying it so far.
I'm also playing a 16-bit style indie platformer called Owlboy which is quite good.
EDIT: Oh, I went back and played some Nier: Automata with the controller and my god... it's sooooooo much better than with mouse and keyboard.
The mod tool sounds actually nice, it's rare that JRPG has this feature and we really need something to replace the RPG Maker. People in 2025 remembering FFXV as the NWN of the mid 10s is the only positive outcome this piece of shit boyband game could ever achieve.
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