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Editorial Felipe Pepe at Gamasutra: Why are we abandoning gaming history?

Murk

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Yup, pretty much. Besides the games on the list, I need a couple of articles on MUDs, MMORPGs and computers of the past (and their emulators)... If you want to take any, or know of anyone that might be knowledgeable on the subject, please say.

Is there the "official" thread about the book? Anyway, I see that Witchhaven is on the list. I'm here thinking if I should sugest Thief the dark project to the list but I thought... "nah... it will fall on that discussion about it's not an RPG". But then I look and... Witchhaven? That game is a shooter! same could be said of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.. But anyway... where is ShadowCaster? an rpg from raven software/Origin that used wolf3d engine?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?forums/the-crpg-players-handbook.90/

I'm tempted to write stuff for either Anvil of Dawn, Risen, or Kult: Heretic Kingdoms. For Risen I would fail the sequels portion however as I have not played them, but have otherwise played the living shit out of the first one.
 

felipepepe

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Anyway, I see that Witchhaven is on the list. I'm here thinking if I should sugest Thief the dark project to the list but I thought... "nah... it will fall on that discussion about it's not an RPG". But then I look and... Witchhaven? That game is a shooter! same could be said of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.. But anyway... where is ShadowCaster? an rpg from raven software/Origin that used wolf3d engine?
Yeah, those games are... controversial. Ever since I discovered I have a 480 page hard limit to publish on Amazon CreateSpace, I've been having a har time to make things fit. Perhaps I'll demote some stuff like Witchaven to half-page reviews...
 

Murk

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Why not have a merged page of a few hybrids where basically each page covers 4 or so games that each get 1-2 screenshots and 2-3 paragraphs describing some key aspects of the gameplay, its history, or anything interesting about it or its origins.
 

felipepepe

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Was thinking of something like this (everything is placeholer BTW):

kpvV2zP.jpg


More than 2 per page leaves too little room for text.
 
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Was thinking of something like this (everything is placeholer BTW):

kpvV2zP.jpg


More than 2 per page leaves too little room for text.

Have to say I really dislike the vertical titles. They make my head spin, my eyes are horizontal not vertical and I'm not Cleve. OK I'm getting old (approaching 40) and I've had like 12 cans of beer now so I might not be the best judge. Then again I might just fall in the target audience of the book. :stupid::salute:

But the rest is :incline:
 

felipepepe

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Are you planning on putting it up on Amazon?
If that's so:
:takemyjewgold:
Bonus jewgold if it's in a kindle-friendly format so I can take it to neptune in 150 years.
Jokes on you, you'll never be able to buy a e-book version, because it will be free. UHEUHUHAUHDIAUDHAWIDUHWAD
 

Copper

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Humm... perhaps. I'm a bit weary of asking the pioneers thenselves, they usually left the industry or don't care anymore. Asking the obscessed, sperging fan sometimes is better.

Probably true - he's still pitching himself as a game consultant, but you can just read his book, and at this stage he's such an electronic old man even his proteges are probably considered irrelevant by the (profoundly dumb) MMO industry.
 
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Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
felipepepe

I was wondering, when you mention publications, a good book about games in that goes in more general direction. Surely there must be something "good for what it is", at least ?

Also, good article.

:bravo:

:troll:
 

TheGreatOne

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Too bad the article wasn't posted on Kotaku/RPS. They're shitholes, but usually RPS/Kotaku articles have a lot more comments, where as many retrospectives and similar articles on Gama Sutra don't get any kind of response at all.

After thought: esteemed gentlemen should start using similar tactics as SJWs. Infiltrate the game journalism scene and tell every one who still reads their articles what kind of drooling subhuman morons with shit taste they are for playing modern games whilst constantly praising :obviously: games
Jokes on you, you'll never be able to buy a e-book version, because it will be free. UHEUHUHAUHDIAUDHAWIDUHWAD
Are you going to do a kickstarter for a hardcover version, or are the logistics of printing and mailing books out of the question when dealing with such a small target audience? Though Matt Barton managed to do it back in 2008, before crowd funding and when the whole retro revival thing was in its infancy at best (and presumably with a lot less word of mouth, after all you've got the codex supporting you and spreading the word on other RPG and retro gaming forms shouldn't be difficult).
 

felipepepe

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I was wondering, when you mention publications, a good book about games in that goes in more general direction. Surely there must be something "good for what it is", at least ?
Besides the highly recommendable Dungeons & Desktops from Matt Barton, I've read:

REPLAY: History of Video-Games - Arguably the best book about gaming history, is very well researched and touches everything from mainframes to PCs to consoles, in various countries and not only the US. It's the one I would recommend. Would definitely benefit from some pictures though... I hate having to google while reading to have an idea of WTF he's talking about.

The Ultimate History of Video-Games - Has a insane amount of interviews and backstage info, but focused entirely on consoles and arcades. Like, really. Wizardry and Ultima aren't even mentioned in the 600 pages of the book. Old book so it ends with the release of the Xbox in 2001, which is quite haunting.

High-Score: The Illustrated History of Electronic Games - It isn't as in-depth as the others, but thanks to the big colored images, it's a great nostalgia trip. Was written by Johnny L. Wilson, ex-chief editor of CGW magazine.

Dungeons & Dreamers: Could be titled "My life as Lord British and other stories". Its 50% about Richard Garriott, 25% about John Carmak & Romero and 25% about MUD and Colossal Cave, all tied by "bros playing together". Cool read, but there's a annoying bias towards Garriott's ego. Seriously, is like he commissioned the book as script for a film about him. I would watch such film though. :3
 

felipepepe

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Are you going to do a kickstarter for a hardcover version, or are the logistics of printing and mailing books out of the question when dealing with such a small target audience? Though Matt Barton managed to do it back in 2008, before crowd funding and when the whole retro revival thing was in its infancy at best (and presumably with a lot less word of mouth, after all you've got the codex supporting you and spreading the word on other RPG and retro gaming forms shouldn't be difficult).
A paperback version will definitely be made, but I not putting much effort into a hardcover one... besides the minuscule audience, the logistics of printing in HUEHUEland and then mailing to the rest of the world would make me go mad, and I'm certain that a good chunck would never arrive.

Matt had a publishing company and profit over the books, while also living in the US. That makes things a lot easier. MAYBE if a publishing company got interested in the project things could changed (and also remove this annoying 480 page limit), but I'm honestly not eager to deal with contracts and greedy companies overseas. I want to have full freedom to do whatever I please, including releasing the files for volunteer translations and whatnot, without having to check with a lawyer.
 

Murk

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You mean without having to check with THE lawyer /glassesyeahhhh.jpg

IMO this is a fan driven project fueled by nostalgia, personal love for the hobby, and has this grass-roots type of attitude. It should retain that attitude unless some super simple printing option opens up -- like the equivalent to cafepress (tho at lower ass-rape prices).
 

felipepepe

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I have a big issue with the final price at the moment, so I'm open to alternatives. Considering I'm having no profit, each full color 480-page paperback would be about $13 if I printed 500 copies at once via IngramSpark. That would be a legendary bargain.

But by doing it on-demand at Amazon CreateSpace, the price jumps to $35 per book, all of that to Amazon's pocket. Ouch. I hope that I can find a better solution to that... :|
 

Murk

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My guess would be best to take a listing of people willing to put up funds and to see if maybe the 500 copies would eventually pan out?

That is, if 500x13 = 6500 which is 185 books at the amazon price. Cheaper, but requires a huge early investment which no sane person should do unless they have the money up front from the buyers/customers first.

Real talk tho -- how many people would even buy the book?
 

felipepepe

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Real talk tho -- how many people would even buy the book?
That's the golden question... considering the support so far, and that Jason Schreier told me he would cover the book on Kotaku on release (DEAD!), I figure that a large amount, especially priced at ridiculous $13. But I have no reference on how much a similar book sells. I really have no idea if we're talking here about 200, 500, 1000 or 5000.

A listing is redundant anyway, rather do a Indiegogo campaign after releasing the e-book. That way you get names & money at once. But again, I don't trust BR mail service to send everything from here. A partnership with a US/Euro publisher would be the best, they taking the responsibility of producing and shipping all copies. But it's hard to conduce business from HUEHUEland, and a lot of kickstarters have problems when fulfilling physical pledges... vide Wasteland 2 boxes.
 

TheGreatOne

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I hate reading pdf versions of books on a PC, it's just uncomfortable when compared to reading a real book while laying on a bed. While a more expensive hardcover book would do more justice to screenshots (on top of being a nice addition to a book collection), a cheap paperback will do just fine.
REPLAY: History of Video-Games - Arguably the best book about gaming history, is very well researched and touches everything from mainframes to PCs to consoles, in various countries and not only the US. It's the one I would recommend. Would definitely benefit from some pictures though... I hate having to google while reading to have an idea of WTF he's talking about.
That's the problem when it comes to writing a book about video games. You can't flood the book with screenshots, so you can't really demonstrate the visual art of games (90s 2D adventure games, SNK/Capcom fighting game backgrounds etc), but words alone can't do justice nor properly explain most games. And even large screenshots can't capture all the audiovisual qualities of video games from visual design, architecture&animation (Silent Hill 3, Nocturne dungeons, Dark Souls, Half Life 2 etc) and sound design (Thief) to really unique things like the 4th wall breaking sanity effects of Eternal Darkness. It would be great if you could embed videos on tablet books. Just think of talking about a game like WoW. There's so much you need to tell the viewer about so that they can truly understand and appreciate the nature and depth of the game. World first kills in PvE, high level competitive arena, huge world pvp battles, theorycrafting, clever use of game mechanics for lulz, kiting a world boss to a major city, machinima movies, the beauty and diversity of the game world, so many things that really mean nothing on paper to a reader who doesn't understand anything about the genre and knows nothing about the game. Same goes for single player games as well, from complex strategy games and stuff like Dwarf Fortress to gameplay footage of 1CCing bullet hells, fighting games&RTS played at a high level, bunny hopping in Quake etc... and even then, seeing a video of something can't convey to the viewer the feeling of what it's like to actually play the game. Like the difference between a FPS game where shooting guns feels satisfying and one where it doesn't.
 

felipepepe

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That's why I like the Illustrated one, it has pages like this, that really help to contextualize things:

7d67beadeb3e7d77597898c95073db32_large.jpg


However, it does have an annoying habit of showing game boxes instead of the actual games.
 

Zdzisiu

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felipepepe Tell me, when we are talking about the 13$ paperback book, what are we talking about with regards to ilustrations, game screenshots etc? Black and white right? Any idea, or mock up pictures on how it would look like in the actual book?

Im asking because 13$ is a very nice price and even I could afford more than one copy for such a price.
 

felipepepe

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Any idea, or mock up pictures on how it would look like in the actual book?
It would look just like the articles I post here, 8x10", full color and all. I find it unacceptable to talk about vidya gaems with P&B pictures. Here's a (old) mock up:

qSFwfMD.png


The low price is because is a nonprofit book, and authors usually take a big share when self-publishing. I mean, imagine selling it at 25 dollars, for a $12 profit per book... I sell 1000 books, get 12k dollars, that's 28k BR moni; that's a annual salary or a popular car in my garage.

But I don't drive.
:gumpyhead:
 

Zeriel

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That looks really, really good, like something I would actually spend money on, and I'm notoriously tightfisted.
 

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