Favorite Quests

[CP]

After working on the story/design end for so long I'm really curious about a couple of things, mainly: which quests do people like the best and what the favorite starting parties are.

Has anyone solved the missing child quest?

Does anybody use thaumaturgists?

What are people most interested in seeing/finding out in the full version?

Sorry to shotgun you'all with the random questions, but like I said I'm super curious and all of your feedback is very valuable to us. To that end, if anyone has any questions/concerns regarding quest solving, chargen, playbalancing, etc. I'd be happy to throw my 2 cents in. Thanks for your time.

CP

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Re: Favorite Quests in Prelude to Darkness

After working on the story/design end for so long I'm really curious about a couple of things, mainly: which quests do people like the best and what the favorite starting parties are.

The best would have to be the Saloman's daughter quest, because there's a lot of stuff you can do with it. About the only detractor from this would be the dastardly way doesn't seem to offer as much XP for the character.

Instead, it might be better to use town reaction as a punishment for getting Saloman to fight the guardian and give close to the same XP for it. For example, because you're villified for that thing, making the town unhappier, shop prices might go up or even refuse service to the player. Saloman's wife may try to enact revenge, or Vanti might as well. Perhaps by offering a reward for your death.

Things like that would allow evil characters to be more in tune with their evil ways, and still advance the same, but would still offer consequences for their evil.

Has anyone solved the missing child quest?

No, I haven't. I'm not even sure where to begin on this. I talked to the parents at both their farm and the inn, and they won't give me anything more than Eino is missing.

I talked to the gossip lady, but she won't give any details other than her kids are better behaved. I talked to the children playing in town, and they don't offer anything either.

I'm really not sure where to even begin on it.

Does anybody use thaumaturgists?

I went with a Brute Squad. Farmer, Guardian, and Merchant were my core party. My Farmer does have Gift of Goddess though.

I rarely play around with potion making in games though.

What are people most interested in seeing/finding out in the full version?

There's a quest involving Blessed Water, but I can't find that anywhere. The quest doesn't mention a place to look for it either. The location potion people in the Barrier don't sell it either.

One thing I have noticed is that the journal entries are a little brief. They should record who gave the quest, the hints on the quest that the person gives, where that person is in the town typically, and so on. The above quest, for example, the journal entry doesn't mention where to find the cave fungus either, even though the person told me where to look.

 

[Spazmo]

Erm--would you mind terribly telling us exactly which game you're talking about?

 

[Zed]

http://www.zero-sum.com Prelude to Darkness

 

[Walks with the Snails]

I already answered some of this in the other thread, but just to add a little more, I never got anywhere with the missing boy, though I really didn't look too hard. I had already cleared out the cave but checked again and came up with nothing. I'll probably wait to get the full version to start over.

As far as the full version, I'm a bit curious to see if the crazy old man is actually up to something, which was the only reason I decided to humor him. I never in a million years would have kissed his feet if it was really me there, though. I also really wanted to look into learning new skills. It would make a big difference as to the choices I'd make with character creation.

I'm also not big into potion-making. I'm such a natural spendthrift I can't bear to use expendable items if I can help it so I usually just wind up trading them in for cash. And it seems there are better skills in the game for pure money-making. I plan on trying thaumaturgy, though.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Favorite Quests in Prelude to Darkness

First, I want to apologize. I meant to post this to the Prelude message board, but I guess I got a bit anxious.

The best would have to be the Saloman's daughter quest, because there's a lot of stuff you can do with it. About the only detractor from this would be the dastardly way doesn't seem to offer as much XP for the character.

Depending on how you solve the pregnant daughter quest you can get around 7 xp, plus some good loot and drachs. You don't think that's enough?

Instead, it might be better to use town reaction as a punishment for getting Saloman to fight the guardian and give close to the same XP for it. For example, because you're villified for that thing, making the town unhappier, shop prices might go up or even refuse service to the player. Saloman's wife may try to enact revenge, or Vanti might as well. Perhaps by offering a reward for your death.

Hmmm. This would be cool, and not too difficult to implement. However, there is a huge reputation penalty that is incurred when Salmor kills Antius though. Doing things that negatively affect the party's rep are Valley wide and will frequently come back to bite you in the arse.

Things like that would allow evil characters to be more in tune with their evil ways, and still advance the same, but would still offer consequences for their evil.

No, I haven't. I'm not even sure where to begin on this. I talked to the parents at both their farm and the inn, and they won't give me anything more than Eino is missing.

I talked to the gossip lady, but she won't give any details other than her kids are better behaved. I talked to the children playing in town, and they don't offer anything either.

I'm really not sure where to even begin on it.

I can't really respond to any of this without giving out spoilers :wink:

There's a quest involving Blessed Water, but I can't find that anywhere. The quest doesn't mention a place to look for it either. The location potion people in the Barrier don't sell it either.

One thing I have noticed is that the journal entries are a little brief. They should record who gave the quest, the hints on the quest that the person gives, where that person is in the town typically, and so on. The above quest, for example, the journal entry doesn't mention where to find the cave fungus either, even though the person told me where to look.

Oh boy. I think I know the quest you're talking about. The cave is marked on your map by the Vangorii Merchant Mayaa. You may not have seen it because it is marked on the world map, not the Barrier map.

Regarding the Blessed Water... this is a heck of a bug you uncovered. The journal is supposed to instruct you to mix Doir Fruit with the Cave Fungus. Blessed water hasn't existed since.... I can't remember. Thanks for finding this, it will be fixed in the patch.

The Barrier and the Citadel have some of the toughest quests (with the best rewards). We thought some of the quests may be too tough... 2 in particular come to mind. Without giving anything away, have you had any luck figuring what's ailing the Barrier's elite?



CP McBee
Creative Designer, Zero Sum

 

[Anonymous]

I already answered some of this in the other thread, but just to add a little more, I never got anywhere with the missing boy, though I really didn't look too hard. I had already cleared out the cave but checked again and came up with nothing. I'll probably wait to get the full version to start over.

There's a lot more to the missing boy quest than just 'finding' him. Since no one can seem to find him, do you want me to give you his location?

I'm also not big into potion-making. I'm such a natural spendthrift I can't bear to use expendable items if I can help it so I usually just wind up trading them in for cash. And it seems there are better skills in the game for pure money-making. I plan on trying thaumaturgy, though.

The list of Thaumaturgical enchantments should be up soon. I always have a thaumaturgist in my party. They're very useful and a lot of fun.



CP McBee
Creative Designer, Zero Sum

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Re: Favorite Quests in Prelude to Darkness

First, I want to apologize. I meant to post this to the Prelude message board, but I guess I got a bit anxious.

We're going to have to teach you to login to the message board at some point, CP.

Depending on how you solve the pregnant daughter quest you can get around 7 xp, plus some good loot and drachs. You don't think that's enough?

That's only if you do it the good way that gets you that, though. If you sell the couple out to their father for the 250 drach, you only get 2 XP, I think. That'd be the evil way. You also only get the longsword when Antius kills himself. Of course, you can pick up 100 more drach if you blackmail Antius, which is really evil, and then sell them out.

I'm fine with not getting as much loot in the evil ways, but I think you should be able to advance as much by doing it as well, so long as there are consequences for such actions.

Basically, what I'm saying is that, just because you were sent to the town by the Watcher doesn't mean you have to totally care or do what's right. When you make the choice to be evil, it should be just as viable in terms of advancing your character with XPs as the good route.

After all, why did your characters accept the quest? Did they do it because they just cared about the money for turning in the information or because they got to help people and get paid? If you're the kind of no good scum that doesn't care about Vanti's situation at all, and you do the bad things that solve the quest, it shouldn't limit your character's advancement just because you didn't make the town/Vanti/Saloman/Antius happy.

Hmmm. This would be cool, and not too difficult to implement. However, there is a huge reputation penalty that is incurred when Salmor kills Antius though. Doing things that negatively affect the party's rep are Valley wide and will frequently come back to bite you in the arse.

That's always good. I might try an evil-ish party at some point, just to see what happens. :D

I can't really respond to any of this without giving out spoilers :wink:

Hah.. Yeah, I figured it was one of those things that's obvious once you know a little bit about it. Though, it would be nice if there was a hint somewhere in the game as to what happens or where to look.

Regarding the Blessed Water... this is a heck of a bug you uncovered. The journal is supposed to instruct you to mix Doir Fruit with the Cave Fungus. Blessed water hasn't existed since.... I can't remember. Thanks for finding this, it will be fixed in the patch.

OH MAN! You don't know how long I've been looking for Blessed Water! :D

Doir Fruit, I'm sure I've seen that at the shops. Hopefully that quest still works with the Doir Fruit.

The Barrier and the Citadel have some of the toughest quests (with the best rewards). We thought some of the quests may be too tough... 2 in particular come to mind. Without giving anything away, have you had any luck figuring what's ailing the Barrier's elite?

No, but I bought some milk for some kids at school. I've picked up a lot of quests there while trying to do the love potion thing.

Oh, yeah, I picked up a thaumaturgist in the Barrier, so I'll have to give potion mixing a go.

 

[Rosh]

Well, not going into much about Prelude, since I've not played it much (as in, deeply into the storyline to sample a lot of quests), but I'm going to go into what quests I like.

The quests that aren't easily observed as "quests".

They both fit into the game world by adding some history, some setting, and some character development of NPCs and perhaps PCs as well.

The pregnant barmaid quest was a very good example of such, and I hope to see more of those kind.

There should be a main drive, or two or three, but the quests should fit as much as they can and blend into the setting of the game. Which is why Fed-Ex quests just piss me off, mostly because they are implemented like crap.

 

[CP]

Re: Favorite Quests in Prelude to Darkness

That's only if you do it the good way that gets you that, though. If you sell the couple out to their father for the 250 drach, you only get 2 XP, I think. That'd be the evil way. You also only get the longsword when Antius kills himself. Of course, you can pick up 100 more drach if you blackmail Antius, which is really evil, and then sell them out.

I'm fine with not getting as much loot in the evil ways, but I think you should be able to advance as much by doing it as well, so long as there are consequences for such actions.

Basically, what I'm saying is that, just because you were sent to the town by the Watcher doesn't mean you have to totally care or do what's right. When you make the choice to be evil, it should be just as viable in terms of advancing your character with XPs as the good route.

After all, why did your characters accept the quest? Did they do it because they just cared about the money for turning in the information or because they got to help people and get paid? If you're the kind of no good scum that doesn't care about Vanti's situation at all, and you do the bad things that solve the quest, it shouldn't limit your character's advancement just because you didn't make the town/Vanti/Saloman/Antius happy.

Actually, the main reason the Antius quest rewards were balanced this way is because it is much less challenging to finish it the 'evil' way. To do so all you have to do is blackmail Antius and collect the drachs from Salmor. Solving this quest the good way requires much more effort, hence the greater reward.

Throughout the game you will see that evil is often well rewarded -- though there will always be a rep penalty associated with it. In one example I can think of in particular the player will not be able to get one of the best spells in the game unless they do something downright deplorable. :twisted:

Also, if you are playing the full version, you should know by now that you can rob the rich city folk blind. There's no real penalty for that unless you get caught.

That's always good. I might try an evil-ish party at some point, just to see what happens. :D

There are ample opportunities to do so both in the main plot and sidequests. I think you'll find that if you become a bad guy just for the sake of being a bad guy you'll be in a world of hurt. Doing so to get the job done on behalf of the Watcher however.... that's different.

OH MAN! You don't know how long I've been looking for Blessed Water! :D

Oops. Sorry dude

By now you should have this quest taken care of no? The journal entry will be fixed for the next patch.


CP
Creative Designer, Zero Sum

 

[CP]

There should be a main drive, or two or three, but the quests should fit as much as they can and blend into the setting of the game. Which is why Fed-Ex quests just piss me off, mostly because they are implemented like crap.

Fedex quests take little thought/creativity and usually resonate poorly with the intelligent gamer. That said, as a designer they're unbelievably hard to avoid . We did everything that we could to minimize UPS type quests... but it's nearly impossible to have no quests involving the delivering of packages or clearing out caves.

People who play Prelude will find that nearly every quest has character development, is kept in historical context, and can be solved in several different ways.

Still, we tried to be as non-intrusive about quest completion as possible. Hopefully many people will enjoy the history and characters we've created. But we know that not everyone is going to want to know the intimate details of Valley lore in order to get some XP and a sword. To that end, while there are quests that people will have to actually think to solve, there are others that are as involved as the player wants them to be. Make sense?


CP McBee
Creative Designer, Zero Sum

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Re: Favorite Quests in Prelude to Darkness

Throughout the game you will see that evil is often well rewarded -- though there will always be a rep penalty associated with it. In one example I can think of in particular the player will not be able to get one of the best spells in the game unless they do something downright deplorable. :twisted:

Speaking of reputation, it'd be interesting if there were a gauge or device that told you how good/evil you were like Fallout and Arcanum had.

Also, if you are playing the full version, you should know by now that you can rob the rich city folk blind. There's no real penalty for that unless you get caught.

I haven't robbed anyone yet, my party doesn't have the pickpocket skill at all. Most of my loot comes from resting to lure in bandits.

There are ample opportunities to do so both in the main plot and sidequests. I think you'll find that if you become a bad guy just for the sake of being a bad guy you'll be in a world of hurt. Doing so to get the job done on behalf of the Watcher however.... that's different.

Half the fun of being evil is dealing with the consequences!

Balancing good and evil in a CRPG is a difficult one. A lot of games don't do it well at all.

Oops. Sorry dude

By now you should have this quest taken care of no? The journal entry will be fixed for the next patch.

Nope, I still haven't found that fruit and there's nothing pointing me where I should look for it. I tried all the stores in The Barrier and went back to Kellen to try the blind woman. Is it sold anywhere?

Fedex quests take little thought/creativity and usually resonate poorly with the intelligent gamer. That said, as a designer they're unbelievably hard to avoid . We did everything that we could to minimize UPS type quests... but it's nearly impossible to have noquests involving the delivering of packages or clearing out caves.

FedEx quests can be annoying. The postman quest in Fallout 2, where you had to make several trips between Tandi and Westin just to deliver messages was annoying. Morrowind's mage guild quests where you had to run out to various locations to pick plants for the one guy was awful. Most of NWN's quests involved killing someone/something and returning the head to someone, which got pretty silly after a while.

 

[CP]

Nope, I still haven't found that fruit and there's nothing pointing me where I should look for it. I tried all the stores in The Barrier and went back to Kellen to try the blind woman. Is it sold anywhere?

Right now it's only sold by Sallio, the Watcher's agent in the Academy. Yeah, that's actually kinda silly. In the next patch I think it would make a lot of sense if Normin (oh boy, don't get me started on some of our NPC's names) had some. No?


CP
Zero Sum

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Right now it's only sold by Sallio, the Watcher's agent in the Academy. Yeah, that's actually kinda silly. In the next patch I think it would make a lot of sense if Normin (oh boy, don't get me started on some of our NPC's names) had some. No?

It would be nice if it were found in The Barrier. That would save the player a lot of running around the world just to complete one quest.

 

[Rosh]

Well, CP, what I've seen so far in Prelude has been a hell of a lot better than the Head-Ex quests of NWN.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, CP, what I've seen so far in Prelude has been a hell of a lot better than the Head-Ex quests of NWN.

I think I ran across a HeadEx question in Prelude to Darkness though.

There's a lot of quests that appear to involve this guy other than that "Bring me the head of" one.

 

[CP]

I think I ran across a HeadEx question in Prelude to Darkness though.

There's a lot of quests that appear to involve this guy other than that "Bring me the head of" one.

There is a quest that involves bringing back a head. This quest, however, can be completed in a VERY large number of ways. Bringing back the head is only one options and when you do... it doesn't end there.

Does this answer your question?


CP

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

There is a quest that involves bringing back a head. This quest, however, can be completed in a VERY large number of ways. Bringing back the head is only one options and when you do... it doesn't end there.

Does this answer your question?

Nah, no question there. Just an observation on something ironic. Rosh posted about Head-Ex quests in NWN right after I ran across one in Prelude to Darkness. I can't really elaborate more than you did on the subject without spoilers, I don't think.

But yeah, there's a lot of stuff dealing with that one guy.

 

[Virago]

Looks like this is an old thread, but just to answer the question... I started out with a bandit, a bard with Gift, and a thaumaturgist. I solved the missing boy quest fairly easily... ran into him on the way back from the healer's. I like how that goes, by the way.

 

[Chadeo]

SPOILERS

Quests (SPOILERS! You have been warned. Mainly Kresh, the Citadel, Lands End, and the Academy)
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Ok I know I am going to ruin names here, so I apologize in advance.

Kresh

I would like to second the comments about the boy quest in Kresh being difficult to solve. A nature skilled person should be able to find tracks. A high speech or chr person should be able to talk to kids for a clue. Stuff like that. Even a general area like NW or whatever would help.

Ok, so I tried to pickpocket that blind women because everyone said it was easy. Well my 2 skill in pickpocket was not enough and she got pissed at me and attacked. So I killed her and took all her stuff. Then later on I solved the "Who knocked her up" quest the good way. Well the blind lady was back to do the wedding. When I walked past her again, she again attacked me. So I had to kill her yet again. I got all her stuff all over again as well as an extra bonus. No one else in the town seemed to mind that I killed her twice.

Is the dweller cave a quest of any kind? I found it before I spoke with the ex-guardian (I think it was him) about dwellers. I wiped them all out, and killed that weird eye thing. If it is just a "dungeon" that’s cool, I just wanted to check.

Citidel

After Kresh I wanted to see what would happen if I just went to a random place in the game (I.E. I did not follow the clue to go to lands end).

Merchant house quest was the easiest to do. I have done the first step, and I think the second step is going to be easy as well.

Fighter house first step was semi-easy. I panicked for a bit when I did not know how to get into the sewers. Perhaps have the guy tell you that there is a sewer grate outside the cup and candle? First time I found the hideout I tried to kill them on my own. Even with a full party of 6 I got mostly wiped out. So I reloaded and told the chick where the base was and let her deal with it.

The second quest from the fighter house has left me a bit lost. I am unsure what the best course of action to do is, but I have a feeling I will need to go to other cities and talk to people.

Scholar first quest is a huge pain (at least for me). I found the hunter guy, I gave him a knife, but I have no clue where the damn cave is. I have wandered all over the map and no cave. Either his directions are wrong (east and a bit south) or you need to make the cave more obvious.

Academy

I love the fact that you can join without paying as long as you are smart enough (go 21 int!). Of course then I fail the "which is stronger question". That was just mean, but I love it =) (you would be surprised how many get the one wrong...no actually I'm not

First quest to get the armor spell is fine. I am totally stuck on the second quest though. I found the guys journal and recipe book, went to lands end and got his dad to come back, but I have no clue what to do next. I got all the stuff to bake a cake, but I can not figure out how to bake one, and I am not even sure it will be enough. I can not lock pick his chest in his room either, so I might be missing a clue from there.

Oh, and you need to add an option to tell the museum guy that you were able to buy a vase from that one student. I love his response after you get the vase, but you should be able to (falsely as it turns out) accuse the woman of the dagger theft as well.


Lands End

This place is HUGE. The "city" is like half of the lower valley map ;P

I spoke to the east contact first, thought she was up to no good, and spoke with the west contact. I then went into the caves and found the thief guy. Not sure how to get him out yet, and I am also not sure if he is a good or bad guy.

General

Basically it is a huge pain to try and find something by wandering around the map. For any quest that needs that, and that you do not want to be frustrating, you need to give multiple and clear clues as to the location on the map. I think the nature skill could be used a lot for this (Bob thinks there is a cave a bit further south….Bob spots a cave….Bob thinks a cave is a bit further north)


Thaumaturgist

I have all three of my main party members with this skill (one started, two I paid the Academy to train). So far I have only used the lightning bolt spell and it was great until I ran out of ammo. I have a feeling I will really enjoy this spell set as soon as I get some more spells from the Academy. A random encounter with a Thaumaturgist and his Golem has really got my hopes up. Are any of the Thaumaturgist’s spells permanent?

 

[thathmew]

thaumaturgy:
none of the spells are permanent, they'd be way, way too unbalancing if they were, they're generally very powerful now as it is. (CP swears by the thaumaturgist)

Basically it is a huge pain to try and find something by wandering around the map. For any quest that needs that, and that you do not want to be frustrating, you need to give multiple and clear clues as to the location on the map. I think the nature skill could be used a lot for this (Bob thinks there is a cave a bit further south….Bob spots a cave….Bob thinks a cave is a bit further north)

Almost every important location does have fairly specific directions _or_ a location added to the automap, one thing to note is that some locations get added to the automap in a specific town and some get added to the main valley map. If you're in a town, the default town map will open, but some things (like the cave you mention) are far enough away that they're added to the main map.
That being said there are some times I would like to make more use of the nature skill specifically for directions and what-not. Eino is one good example. We do a fair amount already, but we do need more of it and possibly I need to add a message to better indicate which map a location is added to, not just the current "location added" message.

out of curiousity, are you using the map/compass combo much?

-m

 

[Chadeo]

I use the map/compass combo ALL the time. It works wonderfully. Also I am not sure how you do it, but it even seems to work in places where you have to cross bridges and things. I.E. it never seems to me to just point in the general direction, more in the "you need to go this way to get there". That might not be true, it just always feels that way to me.

Now that you mention it, I need to go back and see if I just missed the location on the Valley map. I think feedback on what map a location was added to would be a very good idea.

 

[Deathy]

I really liked the 'bastard' options in the 'find who the father is' quest in Kellen.
Nothing says bastard like taking money to keep mouth shut, then going around and talking.

 

[CP]

Re: SPOILERS

SPOILERS
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I would like to second the comments about the boy quest in Kresh being difficult to solve. A nature skilled person should be able to find tracks. A high speech or chr person should be able to talk to kids for a clue. Stuff like that. Even a general area like NW or whatever would help.

This should be easy enough to change for the next version. I think I have a good idea about how to go about it.

Merchant house quest was the easiest to do. I have done the first step, and I think the second step is going to be easy as well.

Have you completed all the steps yet?

The second quest from the fighter house has left me a bit lost. I am unsure what the best course of action to do is, but I have a feeling I will need to go to other cities and talk to people.

Good idea :wink:

Scholar first quest is a huge pain (at least for me). I found the hunter guy, I gave him a knife, but I have no clue where the damn cave is. I have wandered all over the map and no cave. Either his directions are wrong (east and a bit south) or you need to make the cave more obvious.

Check your main map. The cave is southwest of Ironwood.

First quest to get the armor spell is fine. I am totally stuck on the second quest though. I found the guys journal and recipe book, went to lands end and got his dad to come back, but I have no clue what to do next. I got all the stuff to bake a cake, but I can not figure out how to bake one, and I am not even sure it will be enough. I can not lock pick his chest in his room either, so I might be missing a clue from there.

Did you try hitting him on the head? If that doesn't do it, you can make his cake in the oven in the Academy mess hall. All of the ingredients can be bought from the local merchant/Watcher agent.

I have all three of my main party members with this skill (one started, two I paid the Academy to train). So far I have only used the lightning bolt spell and it was great until I ran out of ammo. I have a feeling I will really enjoy this spell set as soon as I get some more spells from the Academy. A random encounter with a Thaumaturgist and his Golem has really got my hopes up. Are any of the Thaumaturgist’s spells permanent?

Like Mat said, I really love Thaumaturgists. You don't start off with anything, but as the game goes on they get much better. You can also get some really cool spells later on (depending on your thaumaturgist). For those who don't have a thaumaturgist in your party, I highly recomend training a party member at the Academy. It opens up a whole lot of game play.


CP

 

[Section8]

I'm being the all around good guy at the moment, unless you count making my two female companions wander around topless to be evil. But it's all part of the RP. I'm a travelling bard with two exotic dancers to spice up my show a little. :twisted:

I really dig the map/compass heading indicator thing too, it works exceedingly well.

But like a few people who have posted above me I really like the way quests don't really feel like they're quests. The Vauni/Antius quest I solved more out of a kind of soap opera "what happens next" curiosity than any desire to gain XP or ph4t l3wt. Also the missing child quest I haven't really delved int but I like the fact that the parents say "If we had any idea where he might be we'd go and look" instead of something like "He said he was going to play near the Haunted Mines of Doom. I wonder where he could be..."