Fate of the Middle Class RPG

[Infinitron]

I consider Civ (mainly IV though, not so sure about V) to be perfect for a Codexer, and that's why I thought it was inappropriate to use it in the sentence "The median owner of a Kickstarter RPG is the "midcore" single player PC gamer who plays games like Skyrim, Civilization, and XCOM".

Sure it's good for Codexers, but not just for Codexers.

I don't consider any of those three games to be awful in the larger scheme of things. I believe that Skyrim was a net positive for the RPG genre, and am happy that it buried the Mass Effect 2-style cinematic RPG, which was a blight threatening to turn the genre into Call of Duty.

 

[Llama-Yak Hybrid]

FO: NV aside I own none of the games there, and I'm pretty sure most of the Codexers I regularly brofist don't either. Just sayin'.

That's because majority of codex are dirty pirates

t. Jeff "the fat retard" Vogel

 

[Lilura]

I believe that Skyrim was a net positive for the RPG genre, and am happy that it buried the Mass Effect 2-style cinematic RPG

Gotta disagree on that one. ME2 has some decent game-play, unlike Skyrim (del my last post cuz I missed your point).

 

[makiavelli747]

I believe that Skyrim was a net positive for the RPG genre, and am happy that it buried the Mass Effect 2-style cinematic RPG, which was a blight threatening to turn the genre into Call of Duty.

I agree with this, but I still don't understand why so many people playing skyrim. sure, it has pretty locations... but the game was made for 10-year old kids in every single aspect.

 

[Lilura]

which was a blight threatening to turn the genre into Call of Duty.

Is CoD third person with builds n dialogue choices; I never played it. What about the Skyrim clone hiking sim scourge?

 

[orcinator]

Is CoD third person with builds n dialogue choices;

Are you saying Mass Effect had builds?

 

[Infinitron]

which was a blight threatening to turn the genre into Call of Duty.

Is CoD third person with builds n dialogue choices; I never played it. What about the Skyrim clone hiking sim scourge?

I'm not going to get into a detailed discussion about why the Skyrim formula is a framework with more potential than the Mass Effect formula. I think that should be pretty obvious to most people.

But what I'd like to add is that the success of Skyrim has had beneficial effects for non-hiking sims as well. If you can make a best-selling game where you plop the player in a huge open world and let him wander around and do as he pleases, pick up and manipulate anything in the environment, and build a character out of hundreds of perks, then you can also make a non-open world game (with tighter level design and a stronger narrative) that allows players to do those things. Skyrim is a dumbed down game, but its success still provides a pathway for even more dumbed down games like Mass Effect to become better, without necessarily becoming open world hiking sims themselves. (which doesn't mean that they will, of course)

 

[Llama-Yak Hybrid]

Is CoD third person with builds n dialogue choices; I never played it.

Ass deffect fits only to the third person part of this description.

 

[Manmower]

I'm a cum-encrusted apologist for crappy shitware, and I do it for free!!

So they did what the audience wanted and trimmed a lot of archaic bullshit busywork that plagued the old games, and the game was a massive commercial success for the genre it represents, because the original IE audience, who are now in their mid 30s married with two kids, could enjoy that style of gameplay without all the timewasting bollocks this type of game would offer in the past.

First, it wasn't a massive commercial success. PoE sold less than 1mil units during its first trimester, and that was on top of huge hype, no competition, and the orgasmic tears of 40yo manchildren who were just dying to relive the glory days of Black Isle's games.

Second, the reason they 'cut down the archaic bullshit' isn't because it was a planned decision (Josh's autism and stupidly and unnecessarily convoluted system design comes to mind), but because Obsidian is staffed by pink-haired cunts and has-been old farts, both of which couldn't make a good game if their lives depended on it. The talent has all gone somewhere else, and we're left with the refuse.

Third, one can craft a well-designed game that can be enjoyed in short spurts. Gaming intervals measured in time don't excuse shitty design, you fucking mong.

Fourth, get fucked. Apologists like you are the reason Bethesda rakes in billions every year.

 

[Lilura]

Skyrim is no exemplar for RPGs: Write off all devs who are inspired by its morbid framework.

Hundreds of perks? Who gives a fuck about OP perks that put you over the top at 10th level, after which enemies are not worth swinging a sword at?
Open World? So what, it's empty and bland just like its predecessors. And if anyone thinks it's "pretty" then they have the aesthetic taste of an ape.
Manipulate objects in the environment? Who wants to watch a solid, heavy object jitter like a leaf in such a kludgy, glitchy physics engine? Who wants to bake bread and iron clothes?

Gimme on-rails Mass Effect 2 with token builds/C&C to that aimless, vapid shit any day of the week.

That said the genre already has its exemplars, and they're not of this AAA arena.

 

[Ludo Lense]

I personally think the angle of this discussion is flawed.

In that sense, I just want to point out that when Felipepepe did his GOTY poll, neither AoD or Underrail came out on top when adding up only 2007 accounts and earlier. Witcher 3 did.

Interpret this little tidbit of data as you will.

 

[Manmower]

Skyrim is no exemplar for RPGs: Write off all devs who are inspired by its morbid framework.

This.

Hundreds of perks? Who gives a fuck about OP perks that put you over the top at 10th level, after which enemies are not worth swinging a sword at?
Open World? So what, it's empty and bland just like its predecessors. And if anyone think it's "pretty" then they have the aesthetic taste of an ape.
Manipulate objects in the environment? Who wants to watch a solid, heavy object jitter like a leaf in such a kludgy, glitchy physics engine? Who wants to bake bread and iron clothes?

If you were a woman, I would find you, hunt you down, and impregnate you.

Witcher 3 did.

It's a good game. Nice all-around system design, good amount of polish, tolerable storyline, ok-ish characters. It's a solid 8/10 experience, which is orders of magnitude more than any other AAA can boast. And double that vs. broken crapware shoveled by Bugsidian and inteXtile whose products are inferior to stuff released over 15 years ago. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

[makiavelli747]

even if Witcher 3 is a good game, then still, rating it above AoD or Underrail shows that oldschool rpg fans doesn't interested in complex rpg's that much
and with that in mind... it is not the devs fault

 

[Manmower]

even if Witcher 3 is a good game, then still, rating it above AoD or Underrail shows that oldschool rpg fans doesn't interested in complex rpg's that much

Rating one above the other doesn't mean we don't enjoy both. It's a false dichotomy, friend.

 

[Lacrymas]

It means we should get our priorities straight if we rate Twitcher 3 above AoD or UR.

 

[Manmower]

Meh, I played all of them, and enjoyed each in its own way. As long as the game is fun, I don't give a rat's ass about where or how it ranks.

 

[Orma]

Skyrim is no exemplar for RPGs: Write off all devs who are inspired by its morbid framework.

Hundreds of perks? Who gives a fuck about OP perks that put you over the top at 10th level, after which enemies are not worth swinging a sword at?
Open World? So what, it's empty and bland just like its predecessors. And if anyone thinks it's "pretty" then they have the aesthetic taste of an ape.
Manipulate objects in the environment? Who wants to watch a solid, heavy object jitter like a leaf in such a kludgy, glitchy physics engine? Who wants to bake bread and iron clothes?

Gimme on-rails Mass Effect 2 with token builds/C&C to that aimless, vapid shit any day of the week.

That said the genre already has its exemplars, and they're not of this AAA arena.

Eh i spent a few hours in modded skyrim, but ass defect 2 made me want to throw up after the first 15 minutes.

 

[Manmower]

ass defect 2 made me want to throw up after the first 15 minutes

I actually found it tolerable, while I couldn't stand Skyrim. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[Lilura]

Eh i spent a few hours in modded skyrim

A few hours modding, a few hours gawking dumbly at the scenery... nothing new here.

but ass defect 2 made me want to throw up after the first 15 minutes.

Yep, opinions and assholes. We all have 'em. It's just a lil' more productive to talk about TRU exemplars, not this AAA tripe. I apologise for stringing together words about AAAs.

 

[Reinhardt]

I still don't understand why so many people playing skyrim

loverslab

 

[StrongBelwas]

I still don't understand why so many people playing skyrim

loverslab

Explain the console fanbase.

 

[Roguey]

Gimme on-rails Mass Effect 2 with token builds/C&C to that aimless, vapid shit any day of the week.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39371-oblivion-pc-gamer-praises-in-preview/page-3#entry528064

There are a lot of people who believe that writing an ultra-tight story with minimal amounts of mostly insigificant player choice = role-playing. I know that Oblivion seems to be going very far away from that concept and that annoys a lot of people, but it seems great to me.

Bethesda tries to do a lot of experimental stuff in their games. Sometimes it fails (spectacularly), but I like the fact that they are doing it.

 

[Llama-Yak Hybrid]

Explain the console fanbase.

Lol nigga it was babies' first RPG. Entire new generation of players experienced the genre for the first time with Skyrim. Before them, there was oblivion but there's 5 years interwall between those, so another bunch of people who were 3 back when it was released learned how to read which allowed them to play this shit(as brainless as it is, you need to know how to read to play it). That's the source of its popularity.

The Witcher 3 is the Skyrim of recent years(I won't tell our times because it sounds stupid. No wonders - there's almost as many shit I can smear over this piece of junk as there is in Skyrim of Ass Deffect.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It means we should get our priorities straight if we rate Twitcher 3 above AoD or UR.

That's why I said W3 doesn't belong in an RPG poll, even before we had the official Codex-hosted poll.

Anyone who insists that W3 is comparable to AoD and Underrail doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[Lacrymas]

Can you imagine people (who grew up with Skyrim) 15 years from now - "Man, games today suck, why can't we have an amazing game like Skyrim?". Uuugghh, just thinking about it makes me want to puke.