Fallout with 20/20 Hindsight

[Menckenstein]

LoversLab in 1997.

 

[Average Manatee]

They'd make Minecraft and retire.

 

[Luckmann]

Something with Fallout 2 really bothers me, and it just occurred to me, as I replay it now, years later. Now, it's possible this didn't happen to me previously, but in a nutshell:

I just got the GECK from Vault 13, and I promise to come back soon with the voice module (it's in my car, parked in the NCR).
At this point, I get the final vision from the Shaman, and apparently they're all fucking dying.
I fucking floor it to Arroyo after walking to the NCR to pick up my car.
Obviously, because the narrative demands it, the village has been attacked just as I arrive.

Now.

At this point, shaman shit-for-brains brings me up to speed, and he mentions that one of the attackers mentioned Navarro.

Since I do attempt to roleplay, reacting to the game in a way that makes sense for my character, I think to myself "Welp, time to start asking people about a way to find Navarro & the Enclave", and I plan to go back to the NCR and then San Fran (which I haven't even visited yet, in this playthrough - I fucked around New Reno and Gecko/Vault City and Redding for a long time), trying to find Navarro.

But 'lo and behold, I open up the fucking map, and I somehow know exactly where Navarro is. So I go there, and I immediately start shooting up the place, because there's no way for me to infiltrate (at this point).

Now. How the fuck did I know where Navarro was? The Shaman didn't tell me. I didn't know previously. All other places in the game, you need directions, a map, or someone tell you the location, implied or explicitly.

Honestly, legitimately pissing me off.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Ladonna]

Super Mutant romance.

Ghoul romance.

Master romance.

 

[Luckmann]

any chance you did military base? There are a bunch of holo discs on the soldiers, maybe one of them got the location?

Nope, I actually loaded a save from before going to Arroyo, and I don't have Navarro on the map yet. It definitely unlocks when talking to the Shaman. What pisses me off is that from a narrative perspective and the perspective of a fresh player, if you haven't been to Mariposa yet (marked only as "Military Base", even if you'd be coming from Fallout 1), it would probably be the first place you'd go to, looking for Navarro, thinking that that was maybe it (in my case, the Military Base was unlocked on the map - but I hadn't been there yet, this time - after hearing that the Enclave (or some military mooks, I don't remember) having been there).

The only thing I'm running is the Restoration Mod and the Unofficial Patch, and I'd be hard pressed to believe any of those introduced this, but last time I played, I didn't do things in this order, so Navarro had already unlocked on the map by the time Arroyo was attacked, so I never noticed this shit before.

Edit: And while we're on the topic of blatant WTF:s of Fallout 2, let me just state for the record how much I fucking hate the completely fucking arbitrary restrictions on weapons and equipment some companions have. Vic excels in energy weapons, but refuses to use any energy rifles, such as the plasma rifle or the laser rifle, but can use the shotgun, a sniper rifle or the gauss rifle just fine, with no indication whatsoever as to why this is? And Marcus, who apparently enjoys punching shit, just straight-up refuses to use Power Fists?

Fuck whoever designed that and made those arbitrary, random fucking decisions, fuck 'em with a rake.

 

[Trashos]

Super Mutant romance.

Ghoul romance.

Master romance.

Tandi is a nympho.
BDSM with Sulik.

 

[Daemongar]

You would play the role of a "Migrant Mutant" looking for a vault to call home. Assholes in vaults won't let you in because they are racists, xenophobes, intolerant assholes. The Master needs humans sterilized for the good of the planet!

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Modron]

Super Mutant romance.

someone didnt wrestle with Francis...

Just popped some roids before hand, buffout is the breakfast of champions.

 

[aweigh]

Francis pops your roids too

 

[Ivan]

real time combat /slow mo vats.

 

[MLMarkland]

War changes

 

[laclongquan]

any chance you did military base? There are a bunch of holo discs on the soldiers, maybe one of them got the location?

Nope, I actually loaded a save from before going to Arroyo, and I don't have Navarro on the map yet. It definitely unlocks when talking to the Shaman. What pisses me off is that from a narrative perspective and the perspective of a fresh player, if you haven't been to Mariposa yet (marked only as "Military Base", even if you'd be coming from Fallout 1), it would probably be the first place you'd go to, looking for Navarro, thinking that that was maybe it (in my case, the Military Base was unlocked on the map - but I hadn't been there yet, this time - after hearing that the Enclave (or some military mooks, I don't remember) having been there).

The only thing I'm running is the Restoration Mod and the Unofficial Patch, and I'd be hard pressed to believe any of those introduced this, but last time I played, I didn't do things in this order, so Navarro had already unlocked on the map by the time Arroyo was attacked, so I never noticed this shit before.

Edit: And while we're on the topic of blatant WTF:s of Fallout 2, let me just state for the record how much I fucking hate the completely fucking arbitrary restrictions on weapons and equipment some companions have. Vic excels in energy weapons, but refuses to use any energy rifles, such as the plasma rifle or the laser rifle, but can use the shotgun, a sniper rifle or the gauss rifle just fine, with no indication whatsoever as to why this is? And Marcus, who apparently enjoys punching shit, just straight-up refuses to use Power Fists?

Fuck whoever designed that and made those arbitrary, random fucking decisions, fuck 'em with a rake.

Blame it on Restoration or UP. I guess either one of that break this line of investigation. I guess you maybe do the Salvatore selling to Vertibird, or some investigation in Poseidon Network in Gekko computer. Either line should have indicator of an outpost fueling Vertibird.

 

[Beastro]

Super Mutant romance.

Ghoul romance.

Master romance.

Tandi is a nympho.
BDSM with Byron.

FTFY

LoversLab in 1997.

 

[epeli]

the completely fucking arbitrary restrictions on weapons and equipment some companions have
Fuck whoever designed that and made those arbitrary, random fucking decisions, fuck 'em with a rake.

>arbitrary
They're based on which weapon sprites the character has. Technical limitation more than game design oddity. Take a look at https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout_and_Fallout_2_sprites

 

[Luckmann]

the completely fucking arbitrary restrictions on weapons and equipment some companions have
Fuck whoever designed that and made those arbitrary, random fucking decisions, fuck 'em with a rake.

>arbitrary
They're based on which weapon sprites the character has. Technical limitation more than game design oddity. Take a look at https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout_and_Fallout_2_sprites

It is arbitrary and it's not a technical limitation. They could've made sprites for those weapons, but they didn't, and it's fucking shit because it's basically random what weapons they use. There's probably tons of more or less viable excuses for this, but it doesn't make it any better or any less shitty.

 

[Daemongar]

the completely fucking arbitrary restrictions on weapons and equipment some companions have
Fuck whoever designed that and made those arbitrary, random fucking decisions, fuck 'em with a rake.

>arbitrary
They're based on which weapon sprites the character has. Technical limitation more than game design oddity. Take a look at https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Fallout_and_Fallout_2_sprites

It is arbitrary and it's not a technical limitation. They could've made sprites for those weapons, but they didn't, and it's fucking shit because it's basically random what weapons they use. There's probably tons of more or less viable excuses for this, but it doesn't make it any better or any less shitty.

This game came out in 1997. You are about 20 years late to the party, but what the fuck, when you bought Fallout for $1.99 or got it for free, you are angry it's not perfect? I paid probably $45 for the game in 1997 and it was worth every penny: it was that good. If you did pay $45 for Fallout and still aren't over your anger, I suggest you are the one in need of a good rake fucking.

You want flawless companions? Play Fallout 3. Fawkes in Fallout 3 works perfectly except for a teeny little flaw with him not wanting to go into a room at the end. I suggest you go there.

 

[aweigh]

the world aint ready for flawless companions

what hath man wrought hither doom yonder... hark!

 

[Sykar]

Something with Fallout 2 really bothers me, and it just occurred to me, as I replay it now, years later. Now, it's possible this didn't happen to me previously, but in a nutshell:

I just got the GECK from Vault 13, and I promise to come back soon with the voice module (it's in my car, parked in the NCR).
At this point, I get the final vision from the Shaman, and apparently they're all fucking dying.
I fucking floor it to Arroyo after walking to the NCR to pick up my car.
Obviously, because the narrative demands it, the village has been attacked just as I arrive.

Now.

At this point, shaman shit-for-brains brings me up to speed, and he mentions that one of the attackers mentioned Navarro.

Since I do attempt to roleplay, reacting to the game in a way that makes sense for my character, I think to myself "Welp, time to start asking people about a way to find Navarro & the Enclave", and I plan to go back to the NCR and then San Fran (which I haven't even visited yet, in this playthrough - I fucked around New Reno and Gecko/Vault City and Redding for a long time), trying to find Navarro.

But 'lo and behold, I open up the fucking map, and I somehow know exactly where Navarro is. So I go there, and I immediately start shooting up the place, because there's no way for me to infiltrate (at this point).

Now. How the fuck did I know where Navarro was? The Shaman didn't tell me. I didn't know previously. All other places in the game, you need directions, a map, or someone tell you the location, implied or explicitly.

Honestly, legitimately pissing me off.

You must have had the location from somewhere else. Iirc on my first playthough I had to scout for the location of Navarro and could not just go there.

any chance you did military base? There are a bunch of holo discs on the soldiers, maybe one of them got the location?

Nope, I actually loaded a save from before going to Arroyo, and I don't have Navarro on the map yet. It definitely unlocks when talking to the Shaman. What pisses me off is that from a narrative perspective and the perspective of a fresh player, if you haven't been to Mariposa yet (marked only as "Military Base", even if you'd be coming from Fallout 1), it would probably be the first place you'd go to, looking for Navarro, thinking that that was maybe it (in my case, the Military Base was unlocked on the map - but I hadn't been there yet, this time - after hearing that the Enclave (or some military mooks, I don't remember) having been there).

The only thing I'm running is the Restoration Mod and the Unofficial Patch, and I'd be hard pressed to believe any of those introduced this, but last time I played, I didn't do things in this order, so Navarro had already unlocked on the map by the time Arroyo was attacked, so I never noticed this shit before.

Edit: And while we're on the topic of blatant WTF:s of Fallout 2, let me just state for the record how much I fucking hate the completely fucking arbitrary restrictions on weapons and equipment some companions have. Vic excels in energy weapons, but refuses to use any energy rifles, such as the plasma rifle or the laser rifle, but can use the shotgun, a sniper rifle or the gauss rifle just fine, with no indication whatsoever as to why this is? And Marcus, who apparently enjoys punching shit, just straight-up refuses to use Power Fists?

Fuck whoever designed that and made those arbitrary, random fucking decisions, fuck 'em with a rake.

The restrictions were due to animation limiations for the most part.