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Europa Universalis IV

vmar

Savant
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
210
I figured Ming's power compared to the rest of Asia probably had something to do with why the AI did everything I told them to do. Still, even towards mid/late game when I blobbed enough to share a border with Russia, I was able to break some of their alliances too and they were a GP.

I feel like playing in Europe would (hopefully) make it more difficult to get the AI to listen but since the dlc dropped I've only done the Ming game and like 50 years of a Commonwealth game so I don't really have anything else to compare it with.
 

SausageInYourFace

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Repost from GoG thread to maybe get an opinion or two. Sale is still going on for about a day.

Europa Universalis III is on sale but I already own the vanilla EU4. Is it worth getting EU3 with all DLC for under 10 bucks or should I just stick to vanilla EU4?

Also, is Europa Universalis For the Glory any good? Is there any point at all getting into the older Paradox titles?
 

AwesomeButton

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I could never stomach the blocky graphics of EU3, moved straight from AGCEEP to EUIV, but I guess you need more informed advice than that.

For the Glory is in my opinion the best EU, if you are looking for a historical simulation. It's the highest form of the so called deterministic style, before they moved to the guided sandbox of EUIV. Which btw is becoming progressively more and more guided with each next patch and dlc.
 
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EU3 is good. The most simulationist and overall best systems IMO (EU4 takes EU3's systems and gets rid of them or goes really gamey). On the other hand it generates the worst border gore imaginable as the AI pretty much randomly expands anywhere, though some mods can fix that.

EU2/FTG is alright but it is definitely very deterministic. You can't even gain cores on territory other than by scripted events. It's also a rather cumbersome UI if you are used to more modern games.
 

Andnjord

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So, are any of you guys aware of the MEIOU 2.0 development? It's looking like it would bring some much needed incline to the hodgepodge of disconnected mechanics EUIV has been suffering from for a long time. For goodness sake, they're bringing pops into the game, living (and dying) pops! Famine, looting and plague that can actually wreck continents if you put your mind to it! Independent estates that raise their own armies and have their own income based on the autonomy of the province they control! Distinction between urban and rural population with their respective bonuses and maluses (China and India might start making sense)! Dynamic centers of trade and important cities modifiers that can be lost of won depending on the situation! If you raze Venice to the ground and depopulate it (which you can actually do) it will lose it's 'important centre of trade' modifier and another city might gain it!

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...g-meiou-pop-overhaul-progress-reports.952020/ for reference on the development.

Compared to the Veritas and Fortitudo mod that has gone all but dead since a while and is stuck a couple of patches ago and Vanilla that keeps devolving into 'spend x monarch mana to gain 5% modifier for 5 years' nonsense this could just save the Europa Universalis franchise for me.
 

AwesomeButton

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It will be at least a year until they polish and balance it, and it's not even clear when it will be released... I am kind of split between playing vanilla with ironman-compatible mods, and playing M&T with my modifications (to armies cost/upkeep, siege and combat phases). M&T + Terra orbis terrarum is pretty good for me.
 

rezaf

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Jan 26, 2015
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For the Glory is in my opinion the best EU, if you are looking for a historical simulation. It's the highest form of the so called deterministic style, before they moved to the guided sandbox of EUIV. Which btw is becoming progressively more and more guided with each next patch and dlc.

I agree, but I feel AGC was better in the days before they merged with EEP. Playing as some nations, it's now ridiculous how many events you get to guide your path.
I'm a big fan of the "living historybook" approach of EU1/EU2 and never bough into the notion that you are forced into playing in a certain way by the game, but there are exceptions or at least border-cases in AGCEEP. Playing as Japan, for example, has a ton of -6 stability event nonsense going on.

That said, I still miss the true historical feel in EU4. I recently watched a LP by Arumba, and he's an impersonation of everything I dislike about the new model. No matter where he starts, no matter who he plays, it's always the same motions - expand and westernize, then expand more. Exploit mechanics when possible. Once every 50 years, get an event that's not TOTALLY generic (and in many cases these events are just as vulnerable to making no sense whatsoever in the grand scheme of things than AGCEEP events are) and deal with it in a min-maxing manner.
I mean, the dude even pops out the calculator quite regularly. I really dug having actual historical events occur instead of these generic shenanigans. Ah well, those days are gone forever, I guess. But maybe I should do a FtG campaign again at some point.
 

MilesBeyond

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May 15, 2015
Messages
716
Wanted to share this: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Europa_Universalis_4_Wiki:Tiers

My preferred tool for choosing which country to play next. It ranks the countries not based on their power but rather based on how much flavour and unique events/mechanics/decisions they have (although most of the top list contains the most powerful countries anyway). Most of the top tier countries have some really interesting things going on, and I'd recommend playing as each of them, even if most of them are EZ mode.

I don't think it's been updated for Rights of Man, so I would bump Prussia up a rank or two.
 

SymbolicFrank

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
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1,668
Too-Many-Arbitrary-Restrictions!!!

With every new DLC this has been downgraded, from "fun but flawed" to "unplayable unless you use a modded, custom nation, and the console a lot to go around all the irritating and frustrating stuff".


Their design process seems to be like this:

"Hey, I thought up this cool new mechanic!"

"Well, yes, it's cool, but it makes things too straightforward. We need a list of arbitrary restrictions that make it frustrating and nearly useless."


Any realism went out of the window with CKII and the notion of "De jure", which means to them: everything has to be as it will be in a thousand years. The player is not allowed to make some nice country, with it's own laws and consisting of the territories he happens to control. Because that's not how it ended up in the history books! Fuck you, player! Not allowed!

That just eliminated any notion the player might have to make any impact in shaping history...


Realism in any shape or form was scrapped long ago.
 

Lone Wolf

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The much bigger problem for me is that - since 1.18 - auto-saves and saves are corrupted once you're twenty or so years in (mainly with the big mods; Expanded Timeline and MEIOU). Meaning, I've lost 40-50 years of progress a fair few times, because you then have to reload a manual save from before the corruption. Fucking bullshit. They're aware of it, too, so hopefully it gets fixed with 1.19.
 
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MilesBeyond

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May 15, 2015
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716
Hey, I hope you guys are sitting there thinking "Gee, I hope someone replies to my two-month-old posts."

I think it's worth it but some of the great power actions do seem a little overpowered. I did a Ming game and was able to get weaker nations to break alliances pretty much whenever I wanted so I could 1v1 them with my massive army or fight their bigger ally without interference. Taking on bigger countries was a lot easier since I could just force their allies to break alliances before declaring war. You get a truce when you force a break, but the AI usually didn't re-ally the same nation before the truce was up, so I could chip away at larger nations and conquer their smaller allies during truce time. Lan Xang in particular kept allying with the same 2 nations and I'd just break their alliances every time before I eventually wiped them out.

I absolutely love it for the intervention alone. It really makes considerations about the balance of power a much bigger part of the game. For those who don't know, if a war has at least one great power on each side, and one side has more great powers than the other, you can intervene in the war on the side that has less great powers. Basically, EU's problem is that it's pretty much completely about war, but blobbing can quickly become boring. Intervention Wars give you a reason to go to war that won't result in you blobbing (probably) but rather are more focused on making sure no one else gets too powerful, which I enjoy.

Repost from GoG thread to maybe get an opinion or two. Sale is still going on for about a day.

Hmm, it's a tough call. EU3 has sliders instead of EU4's monarch points. MP are completely arbitrary, game-y, abstract concepts that don't really make sense from a historical perspective, but I prefer them from a mechanical standpoint. They force a lot of decisions as you'll always have less than you need. EU4 also has a lot more flavour, with a lot more in terms of unique events, decisions, and missions for countries. National Ideas might be the biggest thing, though. In EU3, nations within a religious or tech group are essentially identical outside of their starting situations. In EU4, every nation has a different set of national ideas and traditions that distinguishes them. This is both a positive and a negative - it makes the game more interesting and provides more variety, but it also makes the game more deterministic. For the player it's not a big deal because you can just pursue a strategy that doesn't synergize with your NIs, but for AI nations...
 

Luzur

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Paradox announced its latest DLC for EU4:

STOCKHOLM - 2 March 2017 - Dynasties come and dynasties go, but China is eternal. An unbroken chain stretches through the millennia, and now this mantle lies on your shoulders. Rest secure in the Forbidden City, husbanding your power for the storms you know are coming. Your neighbors will kowtow and bring tribute to your palace. Does anyone dare challenge you, the heir to the Mandate of Heaven?

Mandate of Heaven is the newest expansion to Europa Universalis IV, the renowned historical grand-strategy game from Paradox Development Studio. Mandate of Heaven enhances the game experience for playing the major nations of East Asia, especially Ming China, Japan, and the Manchu tribes.

One of the centerpieces of Mandate of Heaven is managing the Celestial Empire, similar to how the Holy Roman Empire has been handled inEuropa Universalis IV. Increase the power of your mandate by commanding tribute, then use your mandate to reform the imperial system, strengthening your grip on the Middle Kingdom and the continent as a whole. Embrace the meritocracy of China’s civil service to pass decrees that meet your empire’s immediate needs.



Mandate of Heaven’s features include:
  • Ages and Golden Eras: Earn perks in four historical ages for meeting specific goals, building up to declaring your nation’s single Golden Era - 50 years of prosperity and power.
  • Meritocracy: The Chinese emperor can hire good advisors more cheaply, keeping the empire functional no matter who rules.
  • Tributaries: Some Asian nations can demand that weaker powers pay an annual tribute, whether in gold, manpower or monarch points.
  • Manchu Banners: Manchu provinces can provide cheap and effective Banner armies drawn from the traditional tribe system.
  • Japanese Shogunate: Compel the loyalty of your daimyos with new interactions that require them to submit to your authority, contribute to your power or even commit seppuku
  • Diplomatic Macrobuilder: Common diplomatic actions are now easily available from the macrobuilder interface.
  • New Events and Decisions: Most of these new systems are connected to new event series or decisions, bringing you even deeper into the past
Mandate of Heaven will also ship alongside new Content Packs fitting the theme of the expansion, with new unit designs for many of the East Asian powers and other updated army models.

Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven will be available soon on Steam and at the Paradox Store.
 

Delterius

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Balkanizing China into a Holy Romance Empire sort of thing sounds interesting. Better than just nerfing the chinese into a medium power.
Any realism went out of the window with CKII and the notion of "De jure", which means to them: everything has to be as it will be in a thousand years. The player is not allowed to make some nice country, with it's own laws and consisting of the territories he happens to control. Because that's not how it ended up in the history books! Fuck you, player! Not allowed!
:retarded:
 

Grinolf

Arcane
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
1,297
Balkanizing China into a Holy Romance Empire sort of thing sounds interesting. Better than just nerfing the chinese into a medium power.
Ming stays united, they just now are supposed to surround themselves with tributaries. What's looking more important with this new mechanic is that countries in the region should have way easier time to take over China and replace Ming, so I'm hoping that proper Qing or some alternative to them from South-East Asia would finally form from time to time.
 

Beastro

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May 11, 2015
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China needs a special AI that turns it indolent once enough of its preset borders are under their control.

Besides controlling much of what they consider China or should be directly ruled by them, they've never wanted to go beyond that but to get tribute, since when you're the center of the universe like they consider, why go anywhere?
 

AwesomeButton

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Geopolitically, China is an island. If they portray this accurately within the game, China's AI will behave better. I'm not sure that's necessarily their aim though.
 

Beastro

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So, are any of you guys aware of the MEIOU 2.0 development? It's looking like it would bring some much needed incline to the hodgepodge of disconnected mechanics EUIV has been suffering from for a long time. For goodness sake, they're bringing pops into the game, living (and dying) pops! Famine, looting and plague that can actually wreck continents if you put your mind to it! Independent estates that raise their own armies and have their own income based on the autonomy of the province they control! Distinction between urban and rural population with their respective bonuses and maluses (China and India might start making sense)! Dynamic centers of trade and important cities modifiers that can be lost of won depending on the situation! If you raze Venice to the ground and depopulate it (which you can actually do) it will lose it's 'important centre of trade' modifier and another city might gain it!

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...g-meiou-pop-overhaul-progress-reports.952020/ for reference on the development.

Compared to the Veritas and Fortitudo mod that has gone all but dead since a while and is stuck a couple of patches ago and Vanilla that keeps devolving into 'spend x monarch mana to gain 5% modifier for 5 years' nonsense this could just save the Europa Universalis franchise for me.

If this gets decently polished it could get me buying this game.

I wound up quitting EU once I got bored of EUIII w/ MEIOU than transition to bare bones EUIV and wait years for a decent mod to come out for it.
 

thesheeep

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So, are any of you guys aware of the MEIOU 2.0 development? It's looking like it would bring some much needed incline to the hodgepodge of disconnected mechanics EUIV has been suffering from for a long time. For goodness sake, they're bringing pops into the game, living (and dying) pops! Famine, looting and plague that can actually wreck continents if you put your mind to it! Independent estates that raise their own armies and have their own income based on the autonomy of the province they control! Distinction between urban and rural population with their respective bonuses and maluses (China and India might start making sense)! Dynamic centers of trade and important cities modifiers that can be lost of won depending on the situation! If you raze Venice to the ground and depopulate it (which you can actually do) it will lose it's 'important centre of trade' modifier and another city might gain it!

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...g-meiou-pop-overhaul-progress-reports.952020/ for reference on the development.

Compared to the Veritas and Fortitudo mod that has gone all but dead since a while and is stuck a couple of patches ago and Vanilla that keeps devolving into 'spend x monarch mana to gain 5% modifier for 5 years' nonsense this could just save the Europa Universalis franchise for me.
Only problem with these big mods is that they bring the engine to its knees.
Loading times increased, worse the longer the game is running, same problem with general performance. I couldn't play the last version of it on my "meh" laptop, only on the main rig.
I mean, I could play it, but never faster than on the 2nd speed setting.
 
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Delterius

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Ming stays united, they just now are supposed to surround themselves with tributaries. What's looking more important with this new mechanic is that countries in the region should have way easier time to take over China and replace Ming, so I'm hoping that proper Qing or some alternative to them from South-East Asia would finally form from time to time.
Meh. And here I was thinking that there was any real merit to the HRE reference. If its just about stacking reforms and attacking neighbors, China is just a super horde that doesn't expand.
 

Andnjord

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Only problem with these big mods is that they bring the engine to its knees.
Loading times increased, worse the longer the game is running, same problem with general performance. I couldn't play the last version of it on my "meh" laptop, only on the main rig.
I mean, I could play it, but never faster than on the 2nd speed setting.

Well, on that note it seems they recently made a bit of a breakthrough:

Well, it was more like 'fixing an issue' than an update, but still a significant overhaul. To summarize, the lesson of this story can be shortened into, YOU MUST PUT is_triggered_only = yes ON PROVINCE EVENTS UNLESS YOU REALLY HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.

Here's the long version. While playing the game(because the game is so freaking fun) I noticed a rather peculiar lag spike that happened once every year. To isolate it, I first removed all the pop events in the event file, thinking of putting them back in one part after other. Then, I noticed that the game suddenly became super fast, like lightning fast. That was not supposed to happen. Most calculation heavy pop events are tied to one of several yearly pulses, which is an elegant way of saying that they only happen once every year and should not effect day to day game speed. Clearly, something was wrong.

So I used the 'remove all files and put them back in one part at a time' method, not to find the lag spike(though I did happen to find it eventually) but to find where this day to day drag was caused. Eventually, I discovered that province events without 'is_triggered_only = yes' inside were the culprits. My hypothesis is that the game calculates the trigger of the province event on every provinces, every day, hence the day to day drag. I wrote up a new yearly pulse and tied the previous codes in those province events into that brand new pulse, making the trigger to be calculated only once every year. And, tadah, the game is running like a blitz.
 

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