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Eschalon: Book III

Unkillable Cat

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I agree with what you say. Even though it is obvious that Malkur is in the right*, the premise just isn't explored in any satisfactory manner. For example, Erubor's motives are vague, at best. He only seems to be there to present the direct polar opposite view to Malkur.

The space for "each side to think about the consequences the other side is so afraid of", is rather limited, but it's there. It isn't until the end of Book 2 that we get a real idea of what is going on, and it isn't until half-way through Book 3 that we learn why everyone is playing "this Game of Stones". This is a terrific idea to use to fill out the second half of Book 3, as by the half-way point the game quickly falls apart and becomes an almost frantic scramble for that end-game battle. It would help us to learn about the motives of each side, to realize that both sides are striving for the same goal (to save Eschalon) but only differ on the means to that end. This makes Malkur's approach seem even more bizarre - he knows what must be done and what's at stake, yet he raises two armies and sends them rampaging across Eschalon, murdering and butchering people by the thousands in the process. Book 2 paints him as a selfish invidividual who only wants to return home, while Book 3's forced endgame dialogue shows that there's much more to it than that.

*To explain this point, I'm forced to spoil the games big time, so read at your own risk if you haven't played the games yet.

It's a case of temporal physics. An upcoming planetary alignment will cause the great rift of Eschalon to erupt, spreading Candecium all across the land, killing every living thing on the planet's surface, with only life living deep underground surviving... namely, the Dwarves. Even they feel the effects of Candecium poisoning and slowly change and mutate and become the Orakur. They emerge on Eschalon 1000 years later with puny frail bodies, yet possessing a technological knowhow that allow them to travel through time. So in order to try to prevent the Candecium Cataclysm, they build a time machine, fueled by four gigantic Candecium crystals, and travel back in time to use their superior technological skills to save the day. Except... something goes wrong. The machine malfunctions, the Orakur don't end up when they're supposed to be. They spend centuries repairing their vessel, hide away the four Candecium crystals and wait until they're ready. During this "waiting period" Malkur realizes the truth... the Orakur can't prevent the Cataclysm, as they are a direct result of it. If the Orakur prevent the Cataclysm, the Orakur don't exist... so they can't prevent the Cataclysm and a temporal paradox is created.

The time machine "malfunctioning" as it sets off is due to Malkur's attempt to sabotage the Orakur's plans, by his own return to the future. Malkur MUST succeed in returning "home" to preserve the timeline and the series of events that creates the Orakur. The game all but states this out loud in that burst of exposition that is the second meeting between Malkur and the protagonist, yet the game spends all its time painting Malkur as the bad guy. And when the player is finally made to pick a side, the game ignores all of this and decides to not resolve it properly, to leave the end decision ambiguous. It should be more clear on the facts: Siding with the bad guys will get everyone killed, but a glimmer of hope remains for life on Eschalon through the Orakur. But if the player sides with the good guys, everyone will STILL get killed as the Cataclysm can't be prevented. It's a Lose-Lose situation, about as anti-climatic as an ending can get. A third option should have been made available where both factions work together to try to save as many as possible, a "true" ending of sorts that the player would have to work for by exploring Wylderan well enough. But Book 3 had to be rushed, so we're left with the skeleton of a decent ending that lacks content to hold it together.
 
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Unkillable Cat

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Gamesauce has a Post-Mortem article about the Eschalon trilogy, interviews Thomas Riegsecker

Some interesting highlights:

When Book 1 launched in 2007, the gaming scene was very different than it is now. There were no tablets or smartphones back then. Computer displays were predominately 4:3 CRTs, and even the few LCDs that were available were not widescreen formatted.

However, between 2007 and the launch of Book 2 in 2010, things changed dramatically. Many people had dropped their old CRT monitors in favor of a 16:9 wide-screen LCDs, yet others still clung to their old, beloved square CRT displays. This was a problem because the Eschalon game engine (which I was committed to reusing for all three games) used a fixed resolution with bitmap sprites. It was not particularly flexible and trying to make the game look good on these different displays was difficult. Although I did increase the native engine resolution up to 1024×768, I did not adjust it to a 16:9 format which was probably my single biggest mistake at that time of Book 2‘s development.

The most dramatic change between 2007 and 2010 was that indie gaming had exploded during this time. When Book 1 launched, we had all the media coverage we could want. The game was featured in mainstream gaming magazines and websites, and not a week went by that I wasn’t asked to give an interview or write an article about the development of the game. But by Book 2‘s launch in 2010, we were just another indie game among hundreds, and our fixed resolution engine no longer looked as good to gamers who were accustomed to seeing high-resolution 3D graphics. I had to work much harder at promoting the second game, which ate into the first year of my development time on Book 3.

At least this explains the long development time on Book 3.

If I am honest about what has made Eschalon a minor success, it’s because it is a game series that caters to a very narrow spectrum of gamers. Many of our customers are over 30 and grew up on pre-Diablo style role-playing games, and they are looking for a very specific type of gaming experience now. These are the customers I focus on because if I tried to appeal to the mainstream gamer mass, I would be neglecting the customers who have supported Basilisk Games from the start. It’s a challenging path to follow, and more than once I drew the ire of Eschalon fans for trying to add a feature that I hoped might draw in new customers. Catering to this niche market has limited the game’s appeal to the general gaming audience, though it is the very reason for Eschalon‘s successes as well as its failures.

:martini:

Although, I will give some advice to other indie developers: do not let a large project take over your life. It’s very easy to find yourself working day and night, weekends and holidays, all towards the dream that your game will be loved by all and will sell a million copies in six months. That kind of success is extremely rare and the mental burnout that you experience from such an extended, crushing workload can have long-lasting, negative effects.

And finally...

One thing is for sure: Eschalon is done. There will not be another Eschalon game, and the Eschalon engine will not be used again.

I'm not even bothered about this being the end of the line for Eschalon, but if he's going to leave the Eschalon trilogy in this state, without even revisiting it for that extra layer of spit and polish it deserves, he's not sending a good message to the gaming community about the future of Basilisk Games.

But in the end, he deserves kudos for getting the trilogy out the door, especially at the start when he kinda trailblazing in the indie scene.
 

Unkillable Cat

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If it can wait until the weekend, then sure. But it would mostly be a recap of what I've written in this thread, combined with a short overview of the trilogy as a whole.
 

Gord

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One thing is for sure: Eschalon is done. There will not be another Eschalon game, and the Eschalon engine will not be used again.

I'm not even bothered about this being the end of the line for Eschalon, but if he's going to leave the Eschalon trilogy in this state, without even revisiting it for that extra layer of spit and polish it deserves, he's not sending a good message to the gaming community about the future of Basilisk Games.

So a conclusion of some kind to the future of Eschalon is also out of question, I guess.
He announced a small expansion, similar to what he did for Book 2, but I doubt that will fix the problems with Book 3's ending and pacing after mid-game.
Maybe clarify some points about the conflict between Malkur and Erubor/the other Orakur, too. Guess we'll find out, eventually.


But by Book 2‘s launch in 2010, we were just another indie game among hundreds, and our fixed resolution engine no longer looked as good to gamers who were accustomed to seeing high-resolution 3D graphics.

I never considered the graphics one of Eschalons problems - they looked nice enough and had a certain charme. Look at Vogel's games - they look much worse and still seem to sell well enough. If he'd managed to fix the resolution (or rather unlocked it), a major complaint would been gone already.
 
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Infinitron

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If it can wait until the weekend, then sure. But it would mostly be a recap of what I've written in this thread, combined with a short overview of the trilogy as a whole.

It can wait as much as it needs to wait. Just as long as it's a review and not literally a bunch of impressions from this thread stacked together
 

Unkillable Cat

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I'll... try. It's been years since I've written a review, and have a project going for this week that takes priority. I'll send you what I have when it's done for a preview, see how that goes.
 

Unkillable Cat

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I think I'm gonna have to pass up on writing that review. Real Life is being a bitch these days, and I don't know when I will have free time to revisit Eschalon, and by then I'll probably have forgotten too many details. :(
 

Whisper

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Game is possible to finish as mage. Probably even easiest way. Basically need elemental magics + some meditation. Few points in divination for healing.
 

Unkillable Cat

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:necro:

So I looked over at the Eschalon forums to see if there were any news on further patches to Book 3, the expansion or the editor.

Turns out none of the above is highly unlikely to ever be released. Book 3 made so little money that the decision was made to abandon the Eschalon series and focus all efforts instead on other projects.

The editor was the only thing that could have ensured that the Eschalon games would live on as something other than a mediocre and quickly forgettable RPG series.

Dunno about the rest of you, but I'm just gonna turn my back on this and forget the whole thing. Basilisk Games really droped the ball on this one.
 

Infinitron

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http://basiliskgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9387

Hello! If you are reading this then you are likely a fan of Basilisk Games and are wondering what is coming next. Well, there are changes headed our way and I will tell you a bit about it.

First, Book 3 has sold very well! However, what has sold well is the number of copies- we've sold far more copies of Book 3 than we did Book 2 in the same amount of time. But (and this is the important part) most copies have been sold while the game was deeply discounted or bundled, meaning we've made only a few dollars per copy on average. Does anyone remember what we sold Book 1 for? $27.95 when it launched in 2007. The bottom line is that despite selling many units of the game, financially Book 3 hasn't done as well as we hoped.

What this means is that we don't have enough funds to complete our Next Big RPG on our own. We need financial help. Kickstarter is an option, but it's not a route I want to go at this time.

What I've decided to do is partner up with an investor who can help fund our future projects. The deal is that my studio will need to complete work on at least one other game first as part of our agreement. The types of games being discussed have been a sci-fi vehicle simulator, a graphic adventure game, a horror-survival game, and even a casual mobile game. These are just ideas; no decision has yet been made what we'll be working on. Also, these games will not be published under the "Basilisk Games" trademark, but rather under a different developer name not yet determined.

Basilisk Games remains intact and I will continue to work behind the scenes on our next RPG when I am not working on other projects. I'll do my best to keep everyone updated as I make small bits of progress, but do not fret if things are quiet around here for a few months. Once certain financial milestones are met with our partner, Basilisk Games will be approved to begin full-time development on our next RPG.

I can't say much more about this now, but I'll be happy to share a link with everyone here when the first of these games is announced sometime next year. While I'm disappointed to not be able to say we are working on our next RPG right now, I am excited to be leading the development of these other games. Some of the ideas being discussed here are seriously cool! Stay tuned...
icon_biggrin.gif

Some butthurt here: http://basiliskgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9388

Hello, all. I haven't been here for a very long while. I don't even recall when I last posted a message on these forums.

One of the biggest things that I was looking forward to was the Book III editor. Seeing it in the promised features section made my heart race. My thoughts were: 'All those plans I have made during the years, finally a chance to make them a reality!' And so I waited. I bought Book III and I enjoyed playing it. I continued to look forward to the editor.

And I waited. But nothing came. Eventually the editor disappeared from the features section. Now it seems that it will never come. I understand it and I accept it, but the fact still leaves me hollow inside.

Thanks for the journey, Basilisk Games, I really liked your games. This will most likely be my last post on these forums. I might drop in from time to time and perhaps return when we hear something from your next project.

Thank you and take care
Lord_P

Thank YOU, Lord_P, for being a devoted fan and customer.

I wish our plans for Book 3 worked out better, but unfortunately the game just didn't generate as much revenue we had hoped it would. I made another post about this here.

At the end of the day, remember: Basilisk Games is a business with payroll to meet, bills to pay, and taxes due at the end of the year. The Eschalon era was awesome, fulfilling and overall successful, but we need to move on with "what's coming next" to keep the studio functioning.

Please stop back once in a while and hopefully we'll be able to drop some hints about our next RPG sometime in 2015.

And what plans were those? You did several things to hinder the development of any modding tools and you can't put it all down to revenue.

We had hoped Book 3's revenue would have been sufficient to allow us to hire additional people to focus just on Eschalon- to improve our tools for public use in order to build a thriving modder community, and to prepare the trilogy for a re-release with an updated engine (widescreen support, and Book 1 redone in a "Version 3.5" engine). We won't rule this out in the future, but it can't happen right now.

And you are likely to follow up again with "but why not release the source code to X and Y so that they can continue the work?" and the answer is complex, both legally and financially. Rest assured it's been discussed at length and determined to be: "not at this time".

We had hoped Book 3's revenue would have been sufficient to...
I was being sarcastic because we both know you had no plan. You did nothing during the development of Book III to make the game easier to mod. Excuses were made before and after the release of Book III so it was foolish of me to believe you would deliver. It won't happen again.

And you are likely to follow up again...
I already asked this question months ago so why would I ask it again? Unlike you I pay attention to what is posted on your forums. X has disappeared and Y should be annoyed at having his time wasted on the private forum. The way you communicate with your customers and the people that want to help leaves alot to be desired.

The era of the lo-fi indie RPG is over. Up next on the chopping block - Spiderweb Software?
 

Major_Blackhart

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Probably.
Indie nowadays has a whole new meaning.
Indie now means a developer that previously had to suck the sour teat of a publisher going kickstarter to fund projects.
 

Hobo Elf

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:necro:

So I looked over at the Eschalon forums to see if there were any news on further patches to Book 3, the expansion or the editor.

Turns out none of the above is highly unlikely to ever be released. Book 3 made so little money that the decision was made to abandon the Eschalon series and focus all efforts instead on other projects.

The editor was the only thing that could have ensured that the Eschalon games would live on as something other than a mediocre and quickly forgettable RPG series.

Dunno about the rest of you, but I'm just gonna turn my back on this and forget the whole thing. Basilisk Games really droped the ball on this one.

To quote myself:

If this is the way Basilisk wants to treat their games then I guess piracy will be the only answer for their future games.

If Basilisk is unable to commit to his projects and see them through then maybe he shouldn't be asking money for them either. Unfortunately for Basilisk, he is beholden to some professional standards when asking for money in exchange of his services.

As for Book 3 making less money than he had hoped, well, Basilisk should've just made a good game. It was the weakest entry in the series so no shit people aren't going to jump to pay the full price for it.
 

Major_Blackhart

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I had high hopes for the series too. It is quite unfortunate.
Does anyone know why Basilisk Games made those particular design decisions?
 

Infinitron

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IMO the craziest thing about these games is how long it took to develop each one. If you want to make a living creating RPGs of this type (low fidelity, retro, same engine for every game) then annual releases are kind of a must.
 

Gord

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That's a pity, I liked the games and was hoping for an expansion to fix some of E3's issues.
I wouldn't necessarily call it the weakest entry in the series, as I at least enjoyed it more than part 1 up until the mediocre late-to-endgame (probably due to more polish/the engine improvements).
But it's clearly unfinished, even if he denied it on the forums, afaik - it really does show in things like how sudden and unexpected the game ends or how many largely empty areas there are.

That too, considering they weren't THAT in depth to begin with. But I guess with the many improvements in each one, it takes time.

I think the improvements weren't really big enough to warrant the long development time, at least in the case of E3. They are evolutionary, but nothing that should take 3 years to develop. Admittedly it's hard to be sure from the outside, but I guess he's simply not the most efficient developer.
Had he finished the series by the time E2 came out, he would have made much more money from them, due to substantially less competition.

Ultimately I guess Eschalon was released just at the right time but the eventual return of The Incline proved to be Basilisk Games decline...
 

almondblight

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The era of the lo-fi indie RPG is over.

Eh, I doubt that. Eschalon was a mediocre game, and the developer seemed unaware of some of the major flaws (like the slow walking speed). I couldn't bring myself to finish it, and hardly remember any quests from it (I think there was one where I was supposed to bring a guy his sword, and one where I was supposed to bring beeswax?) or much of the plot (goblins have invaded). The game looked nice and had some nice ideas, so people wanted to give it a try, but it wasn't enough to get people to come back for more of the same a third time some years later, particularly when a lot of people felt this was worse than the other two.

I've also noticed that some indies who get a lot of attention without doing much media stuff assume that this will always be the case, and all they have to do is keep updating their blog every so often and the word will get out about their game.
 

Vault Dweller

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His biggest mistake was doing a trilogy. It's a good strategy if you have a huge hit like Mass Effect or an established market (Spiderweb), but not when you have an obscure indie game. How many people skipped Eschalon 3 simply because they didn't play Eschalon 1 or 2?
 

Gord

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Unit-wise it sold more than the other parts it seems, but at a lower price-point and produced less revenue(that was true for part 2 compared to 1, as well). Of course a lot of those sales might have come from bundles, where it's unlikely that many people bought it specifically for Eschalon 3.

I started with part 2 myself as I had heard some bad things about the walking speed in 1 (which turned out to be vastly exaggerated, btw.). At least in the case of part 2 it was possible without any big problems, as the setup for the story (the old amnesiac main-character thing) allowed for it just fine.

But I guess I'm an exception there, as many people will be more likely deterred from joining mid-way through a trilogy.
 

Infinitron

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His biggest mistake was doing a trilogy. It's a good strategy if you have a huge hit like Mass Effect or an established market (Spiderweb), but not when you have an obscure indie game. How many people skipped Eschalon 3 simply because they didn't play Eschalon 1 or 2?

Isn't Eschalon's "established market" the same market that Spiderweb has?
 

hoverdog

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The difference between the two developers is that Spiderweb had a couple of very good games, and even the newest releases are at least playable.

Eschalons, on the other hand, are simply terrible, terrible garbage.
 

Vault Dweller

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The way I see it, Vogel has a loyal following (like Bioware but on a smaller scale). Offering a game that looks similar (but has very different gameplay mechanics) won't get you in. Vogel does open world (Avernum) and factions (Geneforge) extremely well. That's why his audience keeps buying his games over and over again. Basilisk went into a different direction, which proven to be, um, less successful.
 

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