Eternity Eora Theology Discussion: Is Skaen an analogue to Early Christianity?

[Lacrymas]

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

 

[Sizzle]

It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Well... minus the part where they are encouraged to assassinate and torture their fellow men :D

Anyway, wanna bet?

To the winner go the brofists! :D

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't know if they are necessarily encouraged to assassinate and torture just because. The lore says that Priests of Skaen usually double as assassins or torturers, but I don't know if that's explicitly encouraged by the religion or it's just something people tend to do when following him. In either case, you take the bad with the good in this context :p

 

[Sizzle]

I don't know if they are necessarily encouraged to assassinate and torture just because. The lore says that Priests of Skaen usually double as assassins or torturers, but I don't know if that's explicitly encouraged by the religion or it's just something people tend to do when following him. In either case, you take the bad with the good in this context :p

Part of his dogma is to actively scheme and bring about the downfall of your masters and betters - by any means.

If the choices with the Gods will not be properly represented, why is this even a sequel or has file transfer? That's one positive side of direct sequel (amongst many downsides).

This is all speculation at this point. It's just that proper C&C of this magnitude is hard to do, so the odds are we won't be getting many meaningful consequences.

 

[fantadomat]

It's an ideology where the weak overcome their lot by the only means they have, Skaen is on the side of the beaten, humiliated and the oppressed, strengthening them and pulling them up. It's a very Christian worldview and very interesting.

Disagree,it is a god of misery and people that want to be miserable and want to bring misery to the rest. If i was oppressed in PoE i would have followed Magran and bring a fiery hammer to the head of the asshole that oppress me. She is more goddess of the downtrodden in a way,improvement trough suffering and struggle. Skaen is about eternal suffering and pettiness. They even kidnapped the girl just to stick it to the noble that didn't do anything to them. It is a god of cowardly cunts,if they were Magran worshippers they would have bashed the lord's head and be done with it.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah and that's why slaves irl always overcome their slavery by beating their masters over the head and bring righteous justice with sword and fire. Except it's not like that. Improvement by struggle is Magran's domain, not Woedica's. Skaen's domain is not misery and the sharing thereof, it's about the possibility to conquer said misery, nowhere is it stated that the religion's goals is to bring misery to people, what kind of religion is that? Outside of chaotic evil religions in D&D that is.

Part of his dogma is to actively scheme and bring about the downfall of your masters and betters - by any means.

Yeah, but that's not torturing just for the fun of it. It's sometimes violent, sometimes not, but the central idea of breaking your chains is a good one, a very human one. I think the portrayal of everything Skaen in PoE1 was weak and didn't capitalize on its other strengths, only on its potential for creepiness.

 

[Sizzle]

Yeah, but that's not torturing just for the fun of it. It's sometimes violent, sometimes not, but the central idea of breaking your chains is a good one, a very human one. I think the portrayal of everything Skaen in PoE1 was weak and didn't capitalize on its other strengths, only on its potential for creepiness.

Sure, I don't contend this, only the part where you compare it to Christianity :D

Skaen is a very interesting and original deity, and, like others of the pantheon, everything he does can be looked at in several ways. That's why he's the only one who appears in several alliances (though we know the gods often do this, he was the only one who was explicitly shown to be maneuvering and scheming behind practically everyone's backs. Very in character for a god with his portfolio).

It proves that Skaen isn't mentioned anywhere, which is what I said. Josh also says "you can make vows to FOUR gods", but that's not true, as the fifth vow is Skaen. Which naturally makes me think it's too hard and too world-altering to include Skaen's ending, so they'll sweep it under the rug. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, trust me.

I don't expect any significant (and logical) ramifications for the Woedica ending, but I hope they don't simply retcon it out of existence either.

 

[Lacrymas]

If you break your vow to Skaen, his followers annihilate an entire city. That's the consequence for that specific thing. It's not about he "giving you something you need". Wael is the only god who you can't promise anything to.

Sure, I don't contend this, only the part where you compare it to Christianity :D

Oh, Skaen's religion is definitely tinged in a Christian worldview, at least the part which I mentioned. He is the most Christian of Eora's gods. It's not necessary in Skaen's religion to murder and torture, that's a ...possible side effect and it's not the point at all.

No, it just speaks to your character that you assume the worst for even sure things for some reason.

But its deffo gonna be in the game. Wanna bet?

And that means I'm an awful person? Or what? I don't get what you are trying to say. Sure, I said that it's in BG2's tradition to bring back dead character so they might do it, too, but that isn't the case. Great.

 

[fantadomat]

Yeah and that's why slaves irl always overcome their slavery by beating their masters over the head and bring righteous justice with sword and fire. Except it's not like that. Improvement by struggle is Magran's domain, not Woedica's. Skaen's domain is not misery and the sharing thereof, it's about the possibility to conquer said misery, nowhere is it stated that the religion's goals is to bring misery to people, what kind of religion is that? Outside of chaotic evil religions in D&D that is.

Part of his dogma is to actively scheme and bring about the downfall of your masters and betters - by any means.

Yeah, but that's not torturing just for the fun of it. It's sometimes violent, sometimes not, but the central idea of breaking your chains is a good one, a very human one. I think the portrayal of everything Skaen in PoE1 was weak and didn't capitalize on its other strengths, only on its potential for creepiness.

Yeah i was replaying PoE and was reading some stuff about Woedica while writing and must have stayed there . There are a lot of slave revolts in human history,some even successful in a way,also there is a lot of runaway slaves that killed their master. Here is what is written about Skaen on the wiki:

Skaen, known also as the Quiet Slave, is the god of secret hatred, resentment, and violent rebellion. He is usually depicted as a small, bald man covered in lash scars whose ears and nose have been cut off. He appears outwardly submissive, with downcast eyes. However, his eyes glitter black with quiet hatred, and his fist is clenched. He is known to manifest in a horrific incarnation known as the Effigy to followers desperate enough to perform certain unspeakable rites. In Dyrwood, Skaen's faithful often double as torturers and executioners, delighting in the fall of high-status prisoners.

It is pretty far from the helper of the oppressed and Christ like dude. It is a sadistic petty cunt that strikes from the back and likes to torture the ones that can't fight back. Still it had the best dungeon in the game,it was fun bringing the light of my fire to those creatures! It is a shame that the game didn't let you chose a deity. Worst thing is that they reveal that all the gods are some glitchy programs. What kind of retarded idiot decided to do this baffling stupidity is beyond me.

 

[Lacrymas]

What the wiki says and what can be read into his dogmas is something completely different. Besides, nothing of what is said there precludes him from also being what I said, which he is. He's not Christ-like, he's Christian God-like in the ways that I said, there's a difference.

 

[Sizzle]

But its deffo gonna be in the game. Wanna bet?

Twice now has the holy "wanna bet?" incantation been invoked. Lacrymas, I fear you have no other choice but to accept :D

Oh, Skaen's religion is definitely tinged in a Christian worldview, at least the part which I mentioned. He is the most Christian of Eora's gods. It's not necessary in Skaen's religion to murder and torture, that's a ...possible side effect.

Skaen "is the god of secret hatred, resentment, and violent rebellion."

His scripture:

"Burn
Feel thy hatred twist within thee.
Feed thyself on its bile, sustain thyself on its anger.
This hatred, this bile, this anger - these shall be the tools for thy rebellion.

Let thine heart seethe.
There is no satisfaction in open confrontation.
Hide thine hatred, let it grow that it may fester.
Make thy plots in secret
The Quiet Slave stays in the shadows, his face seeks not the light.
In darkness doth he work.
In darkness doth he move.

Rebel against those that seek to control thee.
Rebel against those that wish to remove thee."

Also:

"By the time you read this, I will be dead. I pray Skaen does not abandon me for speaking of my plotting, but a son deserves to know how his father died. For I have volunteered to be the Effigy - Skaen will inhabit my body, using this old farmer's simple flesh as a puppet of godly rage. I have been shaved and anointed - tomorrow morning, I will be your father in name only, as my manhood will be removed, my nose and ears removed, and my useless mortal eyes will be replaced with flint stones through which Skaen might see the world."

So - hatred, violence and bloody retribution. Not exactly Christian worldviews, and, yes, all of these are central to his dogma.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, hatred, violence and bloody retribution isn't Christian, but him being on the side of the oppressed is, which is what is important in the context I bring up and which is the Christian aspect of it. He can be both at the same time! Shocking, I know.

 

[fantadomat]

I sense that Lacrymas plans to overtake the codex in a violent rebellion. Maybe it is time to bring down the hammer of justice on him,before he decides to cut off his dick,nose,ears and eyes.

 

[Sizzle]

Him being on the side of the downtrodden is the only aspect which is somewhat similar. Also, you said:

It's not necessary in Skaen's religion to murder and torture, that's a ...possible side effect and it's not the point at all.

And we've just handed you a bunch of his religious texts that all hold violent revenge as their most important core principle.

 

[Lacrymas]

If I had even a modicum of photoshop skills, I'd photoshop myself as performing that Effigy ritual ;D

And we've just handed you a bunch of his religious texts that all hold violent revenge as their most important core principle.

Nowhere is it said that violent revenge is their most important core principle, just rebellion against those who would control you.


"Burn
Feel thy hatred twist within thee.
Feed thyself on its bile, sustain thyself on its anger.
This hatred, this bile, this anger - these shall be the tools for thy rebellion.

Let thine heart seethe.
There is no satisfaction in open confrontation.
Hide thine hatred, let it grow that it may fester.
Make thy plots in secret
The Quiet Slave stays in the shadows, his face seeks not the light.
In darkness doth he work.
In darkness doth he move.

Rebel against those that seek to control thee.
Rebel against those that wish to remove thee."

Where do you see "murder and torture in the most bloody way possible and that's what's important"? Hatred, yes, but that's his tool for bolstering the downtrodden, it's just not a copy of a preacher's sermon. It can have Christian elements (the most Christian of Eora's gods in fact) while also being different. It's a good and creative twist on the whole idea.

 

[Ulfhednar]

"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Jesus

"This hatred, this bile, this anger - these shall be the tools for thy rebellion." Skaen

Eh, they're mostly the same...

 

[fantadomat]

Well Hatred doesn't equal "end them painlessly" mate. I wouldn't have problem torturing and breaking people that i hate.

 

[Sizzle]

Lacrymas dude, come the fuck on - it explicitly states that they kill those they hate. Not much more to it. The God's own portfolio is secret hatred, resentment and VIOLENT rebellion.

 

[Reinhardt]

Yes, hatred, violence and bloody retribution isn't Christian, but him being on the side of the oppressed is, which is what is important in the context I bring up and which is the Christian aspect of it. He can be both at the same time! Shocking, I know.

Christian thing is "obey your betters" and "opressed will be happy in afterlife" not "plot and assassinate your opressors".

 

[Lacrymas]

Lacrymas dude, come the fuck on - it explicitly states that they kill those they hate. Not much more to it. The God's own portfolio is secret hatred, resentment and VIOLENT rebellion.

Uhm, no, it doesn't explicitly state anything about killing? Violence doesn't always lead to killing either way. In any case, that's what I see in Skaen's religion and one of the reasons I find it interesting.

 

[pomenitul]

'You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.'

— Book of Skaen

Spoiler

 

[Infinitron]

If you want to know more about Skaen in general, why not ask the man who invented him? Not Josh Sawyer - I'm talking about George Ziets: http://gziets.tumblr.com/ask

 

[fantadomat]

Lacrymas dude, come the fuck on - it explicitly states that they kill those they hate. Not much more to it. The God's own portfolio is secret hatred, resentment and VIOLENT rebellion.

Uhm, no, it doesn't explicitly state anything about killing? Violence doesn't always lead to killing either way. In any case, that's what I see in Skaen's religion and one of the reasons I find it interesting.

I do find his religion interesting,it is great for EXP. Still it is not the deity that i would chose to worship.

 

[Lacrymas]

'You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.'

— Book of Skaen

Spoiler

That ...doesn't have anything to do with what I'm saying. That's a pretty gross and slavish state of mind as well. It's also cherry-picked. I'm sure we all know we can find a lot of different sentences in the Bible to support any kind of interpretation, so it's a bit moot anyway.

 

[Sizzle]

Lacrymas dude, come the fuck on - it explicitly states that they kill those they hate. Not much more to it. The God's own portfolio is secret hatred, resentment and VIOLENT rebellion.

Uhm, no, it doesn't explicitly state anything about killing? Violence doesn't always lead to killing either way. In any case, that's what I see in Skaen's religion and one of the reasons I find it interesting.

Right, they have a violent uprising spurred on by hatred, and then they simply rough up their masters a little and let them go. Sure.