Endless Space

[Space Satan]

Autobattles in ES style COULD be good, but thanks to weapon system turns out horrible. MoOwas horrible during late game, when you have to fight like 40+ Death Stars with Stellar Converters, clicking target every time and wathicg fire animation 40+ times. But MoO excelled and shined in early-to-mid game with limited and expensive ships. You had to retreat, board and keep your ships alive. ES - so what we lost a couple of fleets, I'll get three fleets next turn anyway.

 

[Misconnected]

How's it compare to, say, SE4?

It doesn't. SE is all about giving the players enormous piles of options and letting them determine which combination to use for a given match.

ES basically the opposite. Initially you could almost write a single click-for-click match winning walkthrough that worked for every possible match setup. ES has been drastically improved since then, but not so much it's anywhere close to what you'd expect of a 4X. The multiple types of victories are mostly illusory, and though there now tends to be more than 1 way to achieve short term goals they tend not to be meaningfully different.

You might assume this means ES doesn't have an explosive micro problem like, for example, SE does. But you'd only be somewhat right - Because ES is blessed with an Empire Management interface that does a surprisingly great job of not facilitating empire management. Still.. ES' near-mono strategy style of gameplay does sidestep virtually all the explosive micro hell of games like SE.

ES is enormously pretty and stylish, and sounds fantastic. And assuming you don't have a problem with auto-resolving combat, then its combat is just fine too. What it doesn't have is depth of gameplay, meaningful diplomacy, or worthwhile AI.

In other words, there's just one way to play ES: fast expand into total war.
Diplomacy is functionally purely a tool for players to sabotage each other (though I suppose it should be pointed out here that the AI really can fuck human players too).
The AI can most definitely kick your ass, but only because it cheats so obscenely hard while simultaneously playing so fucking terribly, that an AI can easily end up being "fed" to victory by rival AIs.

Depending on how much of a genre player you are, you can probably get 2-10 hours of solid entertainment out of the game - it really does look great, sounds great and has a (mostly) very pleasant interface. But unlike pretty much every other game in the genre, ES has very little replay value. So yeah.. It's just about the exact opposite of a game like SE4.

 

[Volrath]

Just play MoO 2.

Or GalCiv 2 if you like soulless competent shit.

 

[Ashery]

Just play MoO 2.

Can't always play the same game, heh.

Thanks for the responses. Looks like a heavily modded MoO3 will remain my choice for the 4x I play when I get my next urge to pick up the genre.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Just play MoO 2.

Can't always play the same game, heh.

Thanks for the responses. Looks like a heavily modded MoO3 will remain my choice for the 4x I play when I get my next urge to pick up the genre.

That's probably the best bet(or MoO2 or Galciv2 sort of). Another game to look out for is StarDrive. It's real-time with pause, quite like the Paradox games(so it never feels fast). The game is quite rough at the moment, but I think it shows the most potential. In a few months it could be pretty good.

 

[Ashery]

Just play MoO 2.

Can't always play the same game, heh.

Thanks for the responses. Looks like a heavily modded MoO3 will remain my choice for the 4x I play when I get my next urge to pick up the genre.

That's probably the best bet(or MoO2 or Galciv2 sort of). Another game to look out for is StarDrive. It's real-time with pause, quite like the Paradox games(so it never feels fast). The game is quite rough at the moment, but I think it shows the most potential. In a few months it could be pretty good.

Normally I don't have an issue with RTwP, but these days I'm looking for straight TB.

Tried GalCiv2 a few years back and couldn't really get into it.

 

[wergle]

I want to like this game so bad because the interface and production values are amazing but it's just so fucking boring

 

[Misconnected]

Tried GalCiv2 a few years back and couldn't really get into it.

Not trying to argue taste with you - if it doesn't click, it doesn't. But it's a shame, because despite its reputation around here, GalCiv2 is a really fucking good game. If you can stand the idea I hope you'll give it another go and play it with Altarn's AI mod. And not play the campaigns.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Tried GalCiv2 a few years back and couldn't really get into it.

Not trying to argue taste with you - if it doesn't click, it doesn't. But it's a shame, because despite its reputation around here, GalCiv2 is a really fucking good game. If you can stand the idea I hope you'll give it another go and play it with Altarn's AI mod. And not play the campaigns.

Well I think GalCiv2 gets a bad rap simply because it's the most "popular" 4x space game since MoO2, and is not as good as MoO2. So every other space game "sucks" too, it's just that GalCiv2 is most often brought up as a modern counter to MoO2, so naturally it gets more attention/hate.

It's not a bad game, I played it for quite some time. It just isn't at the Master of Orion level, and does start to feel rather stale. Have not really experimented with mods however.

There is also what I like to call the "bitterness quotient". After playing a 4x game like MoO2 over a decade ago, and having to wade through countless ripoffs and poor remakes, one tends to just hate the shit out of anything that gets the formula even just a tiny bit wrong, because we expect things to improve over time.

 

[DakaSha]

GalCiv2 is a polished game (well.. maybe excluding ToTA).
Sadly thats all it has to offer

 

[Ashery]

Tried GalCiv2 a few years back and couldn't really get into it.

Not trying to argue taste with you - if it doesn't click, it doesn't. But it's a shame, because despite its reputation around here, GalCiv2 is a really fucking good game. If you can stand the idea I hope you'll give it another go and play it with Altarn's AI mod. And not play the campaigns.

Noted. I'll keep an eye out for it on sale.

Not like I'm going to finish this SE4 game anytime soon, though, heh. But with triggering the "evil empire" score threshold, it'll start getting grindy pretty quick. Kinda broke the game with early fighters, mines, and boarders.

 

[DakaSha]

Tried GalCiv2 a few years back and couldn't really get into it.

Not trying to argue taste with you - if it doesn't click, it doesn't. But it's a shame, because despite its reputation around here, GalCiv2 is a really fucking good game. If you can stand the idea I hope you'll give it another go and play it with Altarn's AI mod. And not play the campaigns.

I'm trying Altarns mod, but the arcaens arent able to build anything.. is this intended?

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Pirates aren't a one trick pony anymore in Disharmony, their obscene weapon scores now encompass the entire range of weapon types. At least the one a scout spawned while exploring did.


I'm pretty sure the Sowers got a big frickin' change, Tolerant allows them to colonize any planet type before doing the research for it, at a hefty resource hit for each planet. Do they no longer have to deal with approval or anything? By turn 15 they have every planet in a huge system colonized and working on stuff. Where did they get the Industry to do it so quick? My Harmony systems stated it would take 3-4 turns for each new planet I colonized in a system, and that's if I don't wait for a populace to recover or built the base planet specialization. Yet they're also pumping out ships.

Oh...but look the Pilgrims also have systems fully colonized now....with planet types that for them should be 40+ turns down the tech tree before they usually could even look at them.



Why do I keep getting alerts every turn that a faction's attitude toward me has changed for no reason? Arrgh!


Haven't had time to mess with the weapons mechanics or new ship types, will report on those later. According to what I'm reading on several forums various races have gotten bonuses in various areas that are either broken balance-wise or actually broken. They're advising it best to stick with the vanilla edition for awhile until the legion of patches come through. But I'm enjoying the new event system and I really like the Harmony so I'll try to tough out this game. More later.

 

[Space Satan]

One of the main things that annoyed me is that you can't create your own race. You can choose traits but you have to choose "Affinity". In MoO you just pick picture and then select your taits. ES - you are shoveled with affinity down your throat.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

The Harmony are limited in a number of ways thanks to their hatred of Dust; no heroes or rush building items or trading cheese, but on the other hand...

"Oh, what? The Sowers have inexplicably declared war on us despite being friendly and talking treaties the very turn before? And they've got death fleets on the way? Build every defensive structure on the list!"

"But even if it's just the border colonies that'll crash the economy so early in the game."

"What economy, we're the Harmony bitch! Make them choke on structures we normally wouldn't bother building!!! Blow them out of the sky! Then queue up the ships and keep'em coming, I promised a Destroyer in every garage and I meant it! No upkeep! Mwahahahaha~"

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

I can confirm some of the ship-based bonuses not working at all. Aside from the usual 'this ship can pack in more defensive modules' or whatever that everyone else has, the Harmony are supposed to get huge production discounts on various things depending on the ship. Make it easier for them to keep spitting out forces and counter 1) no rushing and B) not being able to grow population while making a ship. The Harmony already have a horrible population growth rate as is.

Well the discounts don't work so you're stuck.



And make sure you don't research combat components too fast because once you get a new one they just toss out the option to use older models. Not a problem, until you hit stuff like a beam defense that requires Quadrinix and there is none in your empire. So no including that new model, and no using the older ones anymore. Needless to say if an enemy cuts off the one system that provides a resource for you and it was part of a module component you.are.fucked.

 

[Destroid]

Finally got around to playing this, the planetary system seems relatively interesting with many unique properties available, but the fleet management, ship design and combat are all quite awful unfortunately. I also agree with some of the other criticisms that you just have way too much production, the most costly ship I could make cost me about 7-8 turns, in MoO2 you can easily design ships that will take over 100 turns to produce. An unfortunate side effect of the system-as-colony method is that all of your systems seem to average out to being pretty good at everything, so you might as well put all the improvements in every system. Fleet management also felt very micro heavy and tedious, I didn't like having to organise and run around dozens of fleets (and consequently play out dozens of battles) to get things done.

I've only played the Harmony expansion.

EDIT: Taking over a system takes a really, really long time until you research troops.

 

[Dim]

hows multiplayer? mods can pretty much change all your complaints right? And they can be used in MP? Hows the micro, especially queue? its on sale again.

 

[Kane]

the problem with endless space MP are the constant desyncs that can screw over the game at any point and will force a reload. the biggest issue this game had imo.

 

[Heresiarch]

Bought this and played for a couple of days, and I am a bit disappointed.

The game do look pretty, but there are so many weird designs that make me scratch my head from time to time. The combat mechanism alone is so confusing and obscure in explaining the rules, even after consulting with the wiki I still don't understand everything. The combat cutscenes, as being mentioned everywhere, look good for the the first two times but turn boring and meaningless very very very fast. I love seeing space battles, but compared to say SOTS, X3 snd Homeworld, battles in ES are only two dozens of ships flying by parallel and broadsiding each other (with some fighters mixed in), you see some ships blow up, and...that's all. The ships don't even turn, the hitting animation doesn't really impact the result, and the worst part: THE SHIPS HAVE NO TURRETS.

The research is probably one of the most boring I've seen in a 4X. Not because the techs are too few or too useless mind you, but because you can literally get a new tech every one or couple of turns - that's even faster than playing CIV4/5 on fast speed. Therefore every turn or two I need to choose a new tech to research, and there's hardly any sense of achievement because there's no need to wait for a good while for the results. This is so unlike other 4X games in which you must make choices in teching; here I can get any tech so fast it's almost like ordering fast food. Need to colonize that lava planet? Two turns away to tech it. Enemies at my border? I'll tech that improved missile - with the prerequisite tech - within one turn. Under siege? It takes 10 turns for them to take my system over, I'll just spend 2 turns to get that defense tech and 1 turn to rush build it...

Speaking of siege, it annoys me hugely that enemy fleet can run around my place with me being completely incapable to stop them. Chokepoint systems are useless because they can escape extremely easily and ships already on a lane can't be stopped. The AI also loves to use lots of fleets - many of them with 2 to 5 ships only. The problem is one fleet can only initiate combat once, so I spent like 7 turns to kick all their fleets out of one of my system. I read somewhere that the AI used to spam fleets consisting of only 1 ship as well, I can imagine how annoying it will be.

The system management is ok, but far too easy to manage. Hero and improvement bonuses are ridiculously powerful and planets are too easy to fill up with population. Systems become generic quite fast.

The game is playable, and I really like how much effort they put into writing the fluff and descriptions. The graphics are really pretty though I don't think it's actually much better than the other space 4X games. It's too bad the game lacks depth and feels simple and shallow.

My point of view could be a bit biases as I'm currently having an awesome time with Distant Worlds with all the patches and new features.

 

[Riel]

it annoys me hugely that enemy fleet can run around my place with me being completely incapable to stop them. Chokepoint systems are useless because they can escape extremely easily and ships already on a lane can't be stopped.

Pretty and shallow that's what this game is, that said you are wrong about that quote. You can use the blockade system button for that, I know it seams to imply you cut of the system from trade and try to starve it to surrender (*), but that's not the case at all. What "blockade" does is stop enemy fleets from LEAVING the system; so get to a choke point, place a fleet in blockade and no enemy will be able to leave the system, effectively "choking" access beyond the star system, of course enemies will "blockade" you too so to leave you'll have to destroy them or sign peace, but the enemy won't be able to simply run past you.

(*) Do note that the presence of enemy ships in a system remove it from the "trade" network (resources and actual intercivilization trade), but that is independent from enemy fleet being in "blockade" mode or not.

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

If you figure out where a civ gets the majority of an element they're using to make kickass ships, blockading it can effectively cripple their war machine. Believe me, they'll do it to you.

 

[tindrli]

Bought this and played for a couple of days, and I am a bit disappointed.

you are not the only one bro...

 

[AngryEddy]

ES getting a content update:

http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/content.php?507-ES-Seventh-Add-On-Announced

"So in case you forgot about Endless Space or are just discovering the Endless games: Chronicles of the Lost will be available next week for Endless Space and Endless Space: Disharmony. It will mostly contain some improvements (Disharmony) and bug fixes (vanilla & Disharmony), based on what we have collected on the forum. In the upcoming days, we will be sharing more information on the content and the release date, so make sure you follow our Facebook/Twitter pages besides the Dev Blog! "

Addition of Colonisation Events + More Exploration Events

"Here's a preview of some random events that will occur in game: more exploration events, but also something new, the colonisation events! These can now be triggered when colonising a new planet."

 

[Riel]

More urgent needs of ES:

An economic rebalance to make ships, specially large ones feel more expensive, unique and hard to replace.
Better AI please, at least the most basic stuff like good economic developmnet.
A better combat system: I'm sure Tactical combat would be the number 1 desire of most ES owners but since that probably would be too much taking inspiration from Reach for the Stars that had a similar battle system but superior in all ways would be really apreciated and might actually make battles interesting.

As it is a few new events while positive do not compel me to play this game.