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4X Endless Space 2

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because it's clearly incomplete. the mechanics are in place but it lacks stuff to do with them. does it even have 15 different buildings?

meanwhile i tried tyranids, plants and the ark guys. all their special skills seem made to actually slow you down, to make expanding as much as a chore as possible.
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
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Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
meanwhile i tried tyranids, plants and the ark guys. all their special skills seem made to actually slow you down, to make expanding as much as a chore as possible.

Trees are the fastest expansionists in the game. Vodyani are just broken and they're good at everything, including spamming their stuff everywhere. And cravers are decent at expansion simply because they have lots of food & industry. If these are not fast expansionists for you then I dunno what do you consider fast in this game.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
meanwhile i tried tyranids, plants and the ark guys. all their special skills seem made to actually slow you down, to make expanding as much as a chore as possible.

Trees are the fastest expansionists in the game. Vodyani are just broken and they're good at everything, including spamming their stuff everywhere. And cravers are decent at expansion simply because they have lots of food & industry. If these are not fast expansionists for you then I dunno what do you consider fast in this game.
They are all overpowered in some way, an human player can abuse the mechanisms and snowball very easily in a way AI will never be able to cope.Even United empire can expand super fast with influence you can assimilate small empires super fast and buy buildings very fast.Horatio can end up with godly populations with genes stealing.
Vodyani can be countered by sneaky cravers attack, they can move in fleets undetected and take down unprotected arks. Was surprised to see the AI pull that.
 

Juggie

Augur
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
105
I played as Unfallen on serious. Thought the difficulty bonuses would be enough for AI to actually pose at least minor challenge. In reality minor factions with their annoying ship conjuring and random actions were all that ever felt challenging. I literally clicked my way through system interface to wonder victory. No wars at all. There's little motivation for waging wars when there're enough systems to reach the limit using only colonization. Just expand, build the same buildings and keep increasing the gap between you and other factions. Felt like "oldschool" 4X games in this regard and that's not a good thing.
 

Raghar

Arcane
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These HORRIBLE bugs. I finished it with half fleets stuck in system because of bug. Also killing enemy in a system only to have it quickly recolonized under your blockading fleet.

That's what you got when you are making game in C# because it's easier, and you are implementing multithreading in a way to force players to try to click faster than AI to intercept that stack. Also theirs implementation of multithreading fucks performance at the start of the turn.
 
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Jimmious

Arcane
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Blaming a p.language because the developers sucked at it is not wise. C# is fine if you know what you're doing.
 

thesheeep

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Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Blaming a p.language because the developers sucked at it is not wise. C# is fine if you know what you're doing.
Indeed, this is not a game that would require C/C++ for good performance. It's not some kind of Supreme Commander, or EUIV where there is a gigantic amount of concurrent logic. And even then, game logic is usually done entirely in or guided by a scripting language, which will always be a bit slower than C.

But I don't know their tech specs, really, so it's all just guessing...

Either way, the bugs here are just due to good old lack of testing or lack of competence - though I have to say I have never seen many bugs in their games and played all of them rather close to release.
Except this one, because it looks rather boring tbh. The lore and events look awesome, but the basic gameplay (also from some streamer I have watched) looks very much like "click next turn until something interesting happens".
Plus the combat looks horrible. That weird ass "action camera" that just jumps randomly makes me dizzy and is just a complete waste - really a shame after Endless Legend, which IMO had a really good combat system.
 
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Raghar

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Blaming a p.language because the developers sucked at it is not wise.
They are using it to reduce development cost, but ease of use also places less pressure on skills of developers, which could get away with less careful programming style, and then these multiple "not exactly mistakes" accumulate.

Just as Java, language doesn't suck, but it allows freshmen to work above what theirs experience would normally allow them, and in this case results suck.
 

Raghar

Arcane
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Either way, the bugs here are just due to good old lack of testing or lack of competence - though I have to say I have never seen many bugs in their games and played all of them rather close to release.
This game has Sega logo. It might have something with that.

Plus the combat looks horrible. That weird ass "action camera" that just jumps randomly makes me dizzy and is just a complete waste - really a shame after Endless Legend, which IMO had a really good combat system.
Use the topdown view, go closer, and activate scan. Then click on one ship in that bottom menu and use right mouse to rotate view. When you do this, the combat is watchable. And they have nice ship models.
 
Joined
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Italy
i sometimes miss endless legend, after having played it for hundreds of hours.
i stopped playing this after just a bunch and i'm not truly looking back.
 

Riso

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2007
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1,249
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Austria
I like it more than EL. They streamlined a bunch of stuff to make it nicer to play without really sacrificing anything.
The only disappointing thing for me is that the factions in ES are not as varied as in EL.
 

Ezeekiel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
1,783
So.. if I was to pick up ES2 or EL to scratch 4x itch - which of them you'd recommend more oh holy Kodex Konsensus?
The Kodex Konsensus is that you should play Alpha Centauri or some of the other classics instead.

Only half kidding...
4X lately has been such a disappointment... I keep buying them as they come out but they all share many of the same issues that have been around forever and never get fixed. From the A.I. behaviour, to mid/lategame battle bloat annoyance (more in space games I guess), you spending all game researching crap that just makes retrofitting constantly a gigantic pain in the ass... Poor early game where there is little to do... Spending 50 hours on a campaign that inevitably gets too boring to finish... Bad combat mechanics/not much fun coupled with tons of same combat (or autoresolve everything, great).

The genre is just not advancing/developing properly.

To answer your question though... I have no idea. Played both and imo it's basically down to whether you like a civ-like game more or a space 4x. I think EL may have had a better reception overall but I found it to be the same as all their games, some nice artwork (the puppet people reminded me of Blame!'s safeguard) but they never really do much with it and visuals/artstyle is all these games really have going for them beyond the genre basics.
 

LizardWizard

Cipher
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
991
So.. if I was to pick up ES2 or EL to scratch 4x itch - which of them you'd recommend more oh holy Kodex Konsensus?

ES2 is not even stable at this point. And as a poster pointed out above you can pretty much just hit endturn to victory while you popamole pirate fleets.
 

covr

Prophet
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Messages
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Warszawa
So.. if I was to pick up ES2 or EL to scratch 4x itch - which of them you'd recommend more oh holy Kodex Konsensus?

Play EL, if there is some bundle with cheap dirt DLCs - get the bundle. Then wait a year and play ES2.

That's what I am doing with newly released games since 2010 or similar. Just started playing Stellaris and it's not bad, none bugs at all, technically game is flaweless.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
Patron
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Messages
18,650
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The Kodex Konsensus is that you should play Alpha Centauri or some of the other classics instead.

Only half kidding...
4X lately has been such a disappointment... I keep buying them as they come out but they all share many of the same issues that have been around forever and never get fixed. From the A.I. behaviour, to mid/lategame battle bloat annoyance (more in space games I guess), you spending all game researching crap that just makes retrofitting constantly a gigantic pain in the ass... Poor early game where there is little to do... Spending 50 hours on a campaign that inevitably gets too boring to finish... Bad combat mechanics/not much fun coupled with tons of same combat (or autoresolve everything, great).

The genre is just not advancing/developing properly.

To answer your question though... I have no idea. Played both and imo it's basically down to whether you like a civ-like game more or a space 4x. I think EL may have had a better reception overall but I found it to be the same as all their games, some nice artwork (the puppet people reminded me of Blame!'s safeguard) but they never really do much with it and visuals/artstyle is all these games really have going for them beyond the genre basics.
Not true, they also have p. damn amazing music.

First Endless Space is great now. Apart from the shitty combat.
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,504
So.. if I was to pick up ES2 or EL to scratch 4x itch - which of them you'd recommend more oh holy Kodex Konsensus?
Are you in mood for civilization or space strategy? If you are thinking about paying. EL is mostly bug free.
 

KoolNoodles

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,545
This game is weird. Some parts seem to work FINE(as in vaguely spacey interesting), like colony/system management, research explosion(once your eyes adjust to the mess).....it's all very "acceptable" space 4x stuff.

But other things just seem dumb and too simple. See: space battles where the maximum number of ships that can fight is capped around 10 for most of the game. The strategy card thing is something that seems like a good idea(ok research more diverse space tactics and you can plan for all contingencies), but in the end leaves a bad taste because it feels forced and simplistic. You're telling me commanders can't adapt during battle? Combat feels rote. And yes, it can be auto-resolved, but that brings me to the ship limit complaint.

The way they do battles would make more sense if space travel in the future were REALLY hard, and making ships is an exhausting and time consuming process, so that losing a half dozen ships is a devastating blow. But space travel is easy in this game, and you can make a ship a turn from every system soon enough. They are easily replaceable. Which makes the small skirmishes you are forced to do, one after another, with RPS combat tactic cards feel.......really lame.
Look, I know there are 15 legions of Death Squads headed for the home world, but you guys are gonna have to take turns fighting, OK?

5pb0HIT.jpg


It's also far too easy, but I guess that is a criticism for nearly every 4x lately. The AI seems both timid and unpredictable(in regards to what makes them happy), which just makes for annoying diplomacy. I played a game where I was *never* attacked, despite being threatened constantly for one infraction or another(outside of "pirates", a dubious mechanic that makes little sense-I know you can turn it off-).
Spiral galaxies are prone to this, but here I am, sitting in the corner, waiting for the whole game for somebody to come at me(am 3rd or 4th in "score").

G1qJaCF.jpg


Heroes don't feel like anything to me, at least not like even Endless Legend managed. Most sit on a system for the entire game leveling up and granting bonuses. Like a slow burn building chain.
Same game, my hero Wall-E just sits and waits. Level 21.

vx0T7Ol.jpg


"Politics" seems like it could be interesting, but is bare-bones and largely meaningless. The changes and benefits aren't drastic enough, and depending on government you can easily rig the outcome(of course,hah!).

Ship design is uhhh...ok I guess? Who cares, because the whole combat mechanic is dumb.

It looks nice but doesn't really stand out(why do all new space game galaxy maps end up looking the same?).

The art is great as usual with these guys, and the story stuff is fun to have and helps pull you in. Too bad the "quest" lines feel largely meaningless. A bonus here, a choice of bonuses there.
I don't really know what's going on here but I'll look at it.

e3ktmCb.jpg
Hey this quest seems cool, we're trying to sterilize a planet or something, so our trans-dimensional selves can feel at home? Ok so that involves.....developing it.....and then we get some lame ass luxury resource as a reward. Jesus Christ.

v65tNqL.jpg



Music is a great mix and mostly feels less "generic space fluff" than many other games.

Game runs fine. Stuff. Man, why are the Space 4x games the most disappointing.
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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Riding the train, high on cocaine
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
The main problem for me is that in Endless Legend you struggle. Struggle for dust, for influence, constantly make choices what to cut in order to have something else.

Here - around mid game you shit gold out of every orifice. And in both cases I speak of normal difficulty level - one was actually challenging ,the other is a win button.

VmdWB2.jpg

Before turn 100 I can shit a fleet of 3 carriers out without a problem. What is your superpower?
 
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Dickie

Arcane
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Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
4,235
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Did anyone mention how broken the trade routes are? I had to turn off economic victory and stop building trading HQs and subsidiaries because it's all such a broken mess. I accidentally won an economic victory by building four HQs and a few subsidiaries. Around turn 100 or so, I was raking in about 25k gold per turn and over 999/turn of a bunch of luxury resources, which I could just sell for more cash.

The computer seems to be able to use these, since I lost my first game to an economic victory on about turn 140 while I was messing around trying to learn all the game systems.
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
started to take "shit traders" malus on custom races, as it does not impact me in slightest. The amounts generated are still huge.

Did anyone mention how broken the trade routes are? I had to turn off economic victory and stop building trading HQs and subsidiaries because it's all such a broken mess. I accidentally won an economic victory by building four HQs and a few subsidiaries. Around turn 100 or so, I was raking in about 25k gold per turn and over 999/turn of a bunch of luxury resources, which I could just sell for more cash.

The computer seems to be able to use these, since I lost my first game to an economic victory on about turn 140 while I was messing around trying to learn all the game systems.
 

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