Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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"EA’s Madden ’13 Kickstarter Makes 8.5 Million in Five Hours"

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Infinitron, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

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    INDIE RAGE. Too bad I didn't catch this one when it was new.

    http://www.dinofarmgames.com/eas-madden-13-kickstarter-makes-8-5-million-in-five-hours/

    EA’s Madden ’13 Kickstarter Makes 8.5 Million in Five Hours


    [IMG]
    Edit: Please note that we’ve written a follow-up to this article, which you should check out here!

    The headline is a joke, of course, and a bit of parody of what’s been going on recently with videogame Kickstarters. Successful and famous game developers have been running Kickstarter campaigns recently to make the next big sequel or new game that they have in mind. That’s fine, of course, and I definitely understand the excitement; I myself passed around the link for Wasteland 2′s Kickstarter. If these people screw these games up, at least it will be a sincere, earnest screwup by a game designer who really wanted to make something great, instead of a cynical boardroom checklist screwup by a publisher who really wanted to increase profits from last quarter. The headline of this article should suggest that I am indeed questioning where this is leading, and whether or not a company that just developed a game for Bethesdareally was what Kickstarter was made for.

    Now, some of our readers may remember that we attempted a Kickstarter ourselves a few months back, forAuro. Sadly, It didn’t make it, and we accept total responsibility for that. We started it off with a very unclear and somewhat “inside-baseball” video, as well as a character design that everyone seemed to hate. When we realized that a lot of these complaints were absolutely correct, we scrambled to respond to it, and created a whole new illustrative video and character design, but it was too late. Most of the people who were going to even take a look at our Kickstarter already had, and had simply been turned off. That’s completely understandable. We don’t blame anyone for not feeling super “donatey” for that Kickstarter. Edit: Some people seem to be not getting this, so before people read on, please read the following: this article is not about how we’re upset that our Kickstarter failed. People not wanting to give us money is 100%, completely fine!

    Auro is a game that’s being made by 3 people, on our off time. It’s a game that, all told, will probably have ended up taking us a year to complete because we have to do it on our off time while doing other jobs. Again, that’s fine, and that’s probably what we’ll end up doing, because we really love this game and believe in it strongly.

    Double-Fine Double-Standard

    So anyway, a lot of new Kickstarters run by large-size, AAA teams are popping up and making millions of dollars. Wasteland 2 has made over two million so far and it still has 11 days to go as of this writing. And everyone on the internet is just leading the charge. Here are some comments from the many, many reddit posts supporting this kickstarter:

    “I wish I had more money to give! THIS MUST HAPPEN!”
    “You can always save on food since it’s not nearly as important as this project. I think I can handle not eating for a month, right?”
    “SELL YOUR WALLET ON EBAY, GIVE MONEY TO KICKSTARTER”

    Which is all great! I’m really happy to see people excited about this. Hell, if I had any money, I’d probably have donated myself.

    The issue is that when we ran OUR Kickstarter, we were met, several times, with a very different attitude. Not a “your game looks like shit” or other such, “I’m not interested in funding your specific game” type post — that, we’d be fine with (and actually I’d be surprised if someone hadn’t said such a thing about Wasteland 2, even, among all those comments). The problem is this attitude of, “how dare you ask for money?”

    Check out this lovely comment from one user on indiegames.com:

    They want FIFTEEN THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ? For THIS? To me it looks like a fraud.
    If you REALLY WANT do something, do it yourself. Like I have done – without ANY money and in my spare time after work hours.
    I can’t see a point in supporting lazy people with so much money.

    Keep in mind, we were asking for $15,000. Given that the game would take us at least 5 or 6 months (if we were able to work full-time), and we are three people, this is still hardly enough to live on. Even with the Kickstarter money, we might have had to go into credit card debt or some such. Here’s another, from a Kotaku posting about the game:

    Can anyone explain what exactly makes a project like that cost $15,000? Are they both going to be working 8 hours a day for 2-3 months, and it’s their salary?

    I suppose it’s theoretically possible that this was a legitimate question, but I somehow doubt it. That doubt becomes a lot stronger when you read a reddit thread like this one below (or this one…)

    [IMG]

    The “are we funding a game, or your living expenses?” question is particularly curious, as though the two things are not the same. It’s not as though we need the money to buy a big ol’ bag of pixels, or something. Clearly, there is a some amount of resentment towards indies trying to get their grubby paws on people’s money.

    Since this whole fiasco, I’ve gotten several supportive emails pointing out this strange double-standard. Edge Magazine even wrote an article about it. Essentially, I think the issue is that people don’t understand that making games is a lot of hard work, whether it’s for a huge Fallout 3-scope game or something more the size of The Binding of Isaac.

    Game developers, big or small, need to be able to pay the rent and buy food in order to continue making games. I think everyone knows that, and I think that there is something implicit in Kickstarter that indicates that it’s really there for helping out the little guys. The big guys have connections and passive income; they have means to make things happen, and they do make things happen. Things like The Indie Fund and Kickstarter are, I believe, there to help the little guys without connections or any passive income from a library of hit games they already got published.

    I also recognize that Brian Fargo started this “kick it forward” campaign, which he deserves credit for. Again, I hold absolutely no bad feelings for Fargo or inExile for starting a Kickstarter, if anything I applaud them for going around their publishers. I do think that there could be a tipping point, though. If too many “big, famous rock-star developers who have full-time jobs making games already and passive income from past hits” start doing this, there will (hopefully) be a bit of blow-back. Otherwise, I think the amount of indies who get funded will dramatically decrease as all that potential funding gets sucked up into making the next Doom, Wizardry or Ultima sequel.

    In the meantime, we’re plugging away on Auro as much as we can every day. It’s going slower than we’d like, so we’re still considering other possible funding sources (including another Kickstarter, possibly), but it will get finished one way or another.

    We have a follow-up to this article written here.
  2. Commissar Draco KKKodex WCDS Commissar Patron

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    What a tasty butthurt from someone suprised sheep People fallow the tide, Homos Sapiens being social species news at 11. :rolleyes:

    P.S. And their game looks like Shite and doesn't make me wet... Come one people woo and seduce my Wallet!
  3. Kz3r0 Arcane

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    The retard who wrote the article missed two fundamental points, greater the pool more fish for all, big names attract attention and this is beneficial especially for the little guys, and the other point is his angsty teenager attitude, gosh, gamers throwing money to the people that created the videogames industry and a good part of its masterpieces, this is like complaining that Steven King got more supporters when gauging interest for a story on line that all the unknown fan fiction writers combined.
  4. potatojohn Augur

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    Looks like a cute game and 15k isn't unreasonable. I kind of understand his butthurt.
  5. zeitgeist Scholar

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    He's right in that people will blindly support known/famous developers they're fans of and/or developers who have good marketing, and won't if they're unknowns/have bad marketing skills. They will hold them to completely different standards, and forgo asking the former for what they will demand of the latter. You can see this clearly even on Codex.
  6. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

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    Fixed. :troll::mca:
  7. Zed RPG Codex Staff

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    I think a point the writer of the article missed was that there aren't any games like WL2 and Shadowrun being made. If there were, I could understand his frustration (although I would still disagree). Their game, on the other hand, have an over-saturated iOS/handheld/bullshit market. It's as if they're angry because their indie status didn't buy them any of that sweet auto-goodwill so many indies seem to get/expect.

    There has been no million-dollar sports game being funded on Kickstarter, and there never will be. The kickstarter market is relatively unexplored for what works and what doesn't but I think most people recognize what sort of titles people sympathize with.

    I thought you weren't allowed to run several kickstarters on the same product?
  8. Cowboy Moment Cipher Patron

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    So backing a proven developer's kickstarter is a double-win: not only do you get a good game eventually, but the time spent waiting can be passed by laughing at impotent hipster rage.

    Truthfully, the guy has a point about the "why so much money!?" attitude, especially with how little they were asking for, but rather than some kind of trend for kickstarter backers, it's probably just retards being retards. I feel like the reddit screenshot supports this view very strongly.
  9. Kz3r0 Arcane

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  10. potatojohn Augur

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    Capitalism's a bitch. I always thought Richard Stallman's idea that entertainment should be funded by taxes and the income adjusted the logarithm of popularity to be great. It would certainly fix the current situation where the most popular have so much money that there's no realistic way to spend it and the rest live on stale bread and race to pay the bills every month.
  11. Damned Registrations Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist Patron

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    That wasn't what he was bitching over though. Did you read the whole thing? He was bitching about people who were basically saying 'I'd totally buy this, but you expect me to pay for your (poverty line) living expenses while you work? That's insane!'

    Point seems totally valid. Living expenses so people can work their asses off without a day job is exactly what we should be paying for. If I fund an indie game, I want my money spent on labour, not celebrity voices or licensing rights. People bitching about having their money spent on food and rent so a guy can work is :retarded:
    Spectacle Brofists this.
  12. Zed RPG Codex Staff

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    That was the issue, it was made clear. What I reacted to was this:
    This is what I wanted to counter with my previous post. I don't agree with what he says and I think he misses the whole niche market aspect of the "big famous rockstar" developer kickstarters. A successful Wasteland 2 won't lead to Madden '13.
    Damned Registrations Brofists this.
  13. sgc_meltdown Magister

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    wow, nobody wants to fund your coffee break roguelike because

    1) it's a cutesy accessible indie coffee break roguelike
    2) you screwed up on the first impressions and so your pledges didn't snowball
    3) you ran into dipshits who don't know anything about game development on reddit

    people have been wanting both a turn based post apocalyptic rpg/a tim shafer, ron gilbert adventure game for a decade, a fucking decade and you're comparing the unfulfilled internet desire for an innovative 30 minute session roguelike to that, are you fucking kidding me, clearly these big scary companies are the unfair black holes using their star power to suck up all the money that would have gone to your product otherwise let's make an article telling people about it

    no really they were reasonable with the amount asked and there's no reason why they shouldn't have their go at the pot here, but this isn't some fucking secret club meant only for indie success! You want to reach the whole market, you have to deal with everyone else who wants the whole market! Jesus fucking christ I don't see Jonathan Blow saying Super Mario Galaxy was totally horning in on his fucking turf, so why are you writing shit like this?

    and finally this article here is pretty much a somewhat less disagreeable clone of this particular piece of shit
    http://www.blackgate.com/2012/03/17/art-of-the-genre-the-pillaging-of-kickstarter/

    edit: Their followup article pretty much says "ah I guess we met stupid internet people and we're over it now'. Well I'm glad you had your chance to share, dinofarm games!
    anus_pounder and kazgar Brofist this.
  14. Cassidy Arcane

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    Seriously, roguelikes are sort of expected to be available freely, with donations being optional for those willing to support the developer, unless it is something really, really outstanding...

    ...or with AAA graphix.

    :M
  15. sgc_meltdown Magister

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    why would I want to play your silly outdated point and click 2d adventure games when I can have the best cinematic puzzle character-driven experience with L.A. Noire
  16. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    Small internet. I played TF2 with the guy who made them there games and wrote that there blog post. We teamed up because he could tell I was a refined gentleman of taste since I had a Fallout 1 avatar at the time.
  17. Captain Shrek Dumbfuck! Patron

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    :bro:
  18. Spectacle Prophet Patron

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    And then you jewed him out of his hats, amirite? ;)

    Anyway, I can understand what the article writer is worried about, but luckily statistics show the opposite; big famous kickstarter projects attract people to kickstarter who then spread their money around while they're there.
    [IMG]
    We see that pledges to other video game projects increased sharply after Double Fine started theirs. The graph would have been even more informative if they'd filtered out WL2 as well, but at least the pillars before the Mar 12 spike still show a clear "double fine effect". Source.
  19. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

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    Nope. He told me about the roguelike he was making (That 100 Rogues thing) since I said I liked the genre, and I was mildly interested until lol ios only.

    Then I left him on my friends list and never ever contacted him again because that would be weird.

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