Dungeon Siege - How the hell was this ever popular?

[Melan]

It was one of the worst RPGs I ever played, and certainly the dullest (you could at least cringe at Ultima IX). Yes, yes, the game was masturbating, har-de-har.

But it had great hype, and I mean it. Chris Taylor, the lead designer was really good at selling the game, and you couldn't help but be enthusiastic about the things he was promising - that it would have gorgeous mountain chasms and waterfalls and caves, that you could get pack mules, that the enemies would use varied tactics, and after you played the game, you could just delve into this great, user-friendly but really powerful editor that let you make your own map, program your own enemies with your own scrips, develop complex RPG scenarios and host them on the net. Who wouldn't want to play that game? Who wouldn't want to build their own dream RPG with it? Damn right I wanted to! It was easy to just dream of the great things you would do with it (and the Lazarus people realised that dream). Dungeon Siege was obviously not even half that game. It was really terrible. But the dream Chris Taylor was selling, the idea of the Platonic RPG construction kit, that was something.

Bestest snake oil after Cleve Blakemore's Grimoire.

 

[ArchAngel]

I remember playing it because I was into aRPG at the time but only mildly enjoying it due to game playing itself mostly.
Also when flamethrowers and shit appeared I quit the game out of protest.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Mules!!! 10/10

 

[Electryon]

It's not as great as nostalgia would have you believe, but it, along with Sacred 1 and 2, are the only Diablo clones worth playing, simply because they attempted to create something that wasn't just a loot slot machine. Give me any Dungeon Siege game over Titan Quest and Torchlight any day of the week.

 

[pippin]

The game was clever enough to realize rpgs need pack mules though.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

It's not as great as nostalgia would have you believe, but it, along with Sacred 1 and 2, are the only Diablo clones worth playing, simply because they attempted to create something that wasn't just a loot slot machine. Give me any Dungeon Siege game over Titan Quest and Torchlight any day of the week.

No.Game was mediocre even when it was released.There was nothing going for it after the novelty of party diablo wore off.Loot was bland,enemies boring and skill locked behind stupid grind.

 

[Electryon]

No.Game was mediocre even when it was released.There was nothing going for it after the novelty of party diablo wore off.Loot was bland,enemies boring and skill locked behind stupid grind.

Not saying it was/is anything but medicore, that's a given. I agree with you. But party Diablo is still SOMETHING. And I guess the loot being bland is a plus in my book. The problem with most ARPGs is that loot with hundreds of different worthless modifiers is falling from the sky and you just want it all to go away. And a pack mule is far better than sending a pet into town to sell your grey items and pick up a few new potions with the gold.

 

[Rahdulan]

But party Diablo is still SOMETHING.

You could always try Throne of Darkness.

 

[V_K]

TVM:R did a better job of being party Diablo than DS, at least in the first part.
I can kinda see how Dungeon Siege playing itself can have some allure. It's the ultimate power fantasy, basically - you get to murder everyone and save the world without literally having to lift a finger.

 

[Electryon]

You could always try Throne of Darkness.

Come to think of it, that inspired me to finally get that game running with a patch, I actually liked the aesthetic when I booted it up....

TVM:R did a better job of being party Diablo than DS, at least in the first part.

I agree with this quite a bit, though I only ever made it to modern day before I stopped playing or I bought a new computer or something else threw me off. You NEED all your people doing their specific roles in that game, and though it's certainly got action, I wouldn't call it a ARPG in the vein of Dungeon Siege. Has too many other variables, choices, and other elements to be looked at that way. It's a very underrated game though.

 

[Roqua]

I haven't read this thread at all but to answer the question of the title - people are fucking idiots with extremely poor taste. If you played rpgs you had to play this because your choices were this on console games as bad as this and at least this was developed for the PC. DS 2 was a lot better in regards to character building and rpg mechanics.

This is why I love Tim Cain so much. In a time when there was absolutely nothing at all rpgwise worth playing, Trokia somehow was able to fund a fully TB, full party creation game that was pure awesome. Did people appreciate it or him? No, they just whinned and bitched that it wasn't RTwP and had some bugs and didn't have rotating cameras. This is also a major contributing factor in why the world deserves to end in nuclear holocaust, preferably sooner rather than later.

 

[Electryon]

This is why I love Tim Cain so much. In a time when there was absolutely nothing at all rpgwise worth playing, Trokia somehow was able to fund a fully TB, full party creation game that was pure awesome. Did people appreciate it or him? No, they just whinned and bitched that it wasn't RTwP and had some bugs and didn't have rotating cameras. This is also a major contributing factor in why the world deserves to end in nuclear holocaust, preferably sooner rather than later.

It wasn't Troika's fault in the least really, but saying that Temple of Elemental Evil had "some bugs" is putting it pretty mildly. The game was broken. It took the Circle of Eight team years upon years to fix them, and it's still not 100% perfect. That game needed 6 months more development time. You're right that more people turned to Dungeon Siege because it was mindless, but Temple of Elemental Evil wasn't really a viable alternative to much of anything at the time. The publisher forced out an unfinished game. No one complains about it's gameplay or systems, which are universally praised as the best implementation of 3rd Edition rules in a video game.

 

[Alienman]

I remember Dungeon Siege as a fun lan-game. Would probably not be fun now though.

 

[Zarniwoop]

It was always shit.

 

[RK47]

Ashery

 

[Beastro]

Bestest snake oil after Cleve Blakemore's Grimoire.

Only 9/10ths Neandethal.

https://youtu.be/7JwOnq9sfbA?t=1m

 

[MrJohnson]

Got bored after few hours of gameplay. Tried Dungeon Siege 2 later, which wasn't that bad as the first one, but still had some things missing.

 

[kwanzabot]

This is why I love Tim Cain so much. In a time when there was absolutely nothing at all rpgwise worth playing, Trokia somehow was able to fund a fully TB, full party creation game that was pure awesome. Did people appreciate it or him? No, they just whinned and bitched that it wasn't RTwP and had some bugs and didn't have rotating cameras. This is also a major contributing factor in why the world deserves to end in nuclear holocaust, preferably sooner rather than later.

i agree with a bunch of the shit you said but you're a fking retard lol


strangely when i played TOEE i hardly ran into any bugs and beat the game pretty smoothly(same story with arcanum) guess im just lucky

 

[Koschey]

If DS were absolutely terrible, you might actually get some mild entertainment and lulzy LPs out of it. The problem is that it is simply dull and boring. What are you gonna do? Watch the game play itself? Watch someone else watch the game play itself? Never completed it. Utterly forgettable - or am I just shutting out traumatic memories?

The game was clever enough to realize rpgs need pack mules though.

Oh yeah, now that you mention them, those were actually pretty neat.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Dungeon Siege - How the hell was this ever popular?

Dungeon Siege is the key to understanding shitty game journos and reviewers.

Every single game magazine/review site gave this shit piece almost max score. I still don't know why. Not sure I do want to know tough. That way madness lies.

 

[Jools]

So, I was playing Dungeon Siege today and it's just so bad...

Yeah, I get it graphics were good for the time, the world is huge and continuous, without a single loading screen, and you get a rather large party... but that's really enough to get so much positive press & fanboys, TO THIS DAY?

Exploration and story are non-existent. The whole world is a linear corridor, with bullshit reasons for you to ALWAYS take the long route around and explore pointless dungeons - "oh, the bridge is down, only way to reach town is through crypt!" or "oh, the gate is broken, only way to reach next town is through spider dungeon!". Characters are so generic and featureless you can actually kill your main character and keep playing, because not even the game cares.

On that note, character customization is null - you just give characters a bow, a melee weapon or spell and they'll gain skills & attributes by use. That's about all you'll do, as armor and equipment are just linear "replace 22 defense Leather Armor for 23 defense Mail Armor".

Combat is even worse. Not only you fight 98403284092809482309480394 billion copies of the same enemies, but your characters fight mostly by themselves. They get near an enemy, melee & ranged will attack while healers will heal and all will be auto-solved easily.

Seriously, the entire game is: walk down linear path, find enemy, watch party fight enemy, order them to loot everything, walk a bit more down the linear path, rinse and repeat...

Now look at this:

This shit came around the time of Diablo II, Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, Gothic 1 & 2, Arx Fatalis, Arcanum, Wizardry 8, Icewind Dale 2, BG2, etc... how the fuck did it not only get so much positive press and fan ratings, but also two sequels?

Fuck, even Ross's Game Dungeon did a video PRAISING this aberration as a "fantastic experience":



All I can think of are edgy "cause casuals want a game with fancy graphics that autoplays" remarks or something about Microsoft's aggressive marketing and Chris Taylor's name in the box... maybe a few mods like the Ultima remakes... but even so... WTF is going on here Codex?

I've been wondering the exact same thing, since its release. The game has always been one of the worst Diablo clones TBH, with stuff like Sacred or Titan Quest out there, it really eludes me how this crud ever got this much attention and appreciation by fans and shills alike. Its sequels are also pretty rank, with DS3 being vaguely better in realization but nonetheless dull like an old tin knife.

The one single interesting feature of the game, like others also pointed out, were the pack mules.

 

[felipepepe]

Also, because I'm an asshole, here's a quote from Chris Taylor in 2003:

Some people have criticized us of that, but those are the hardcore gamers – the people who love to micromanage things. What we tried to do was appeal to all nationalities and market to the Asia-Pacific rim, to Europe, the US. To sell to men and women, young kids (we had to change some things to get a Teen rating) as well as appeal to people who are older and just want to sit back and have fun.

So we really wanted to make a game that appealed to a wide audience, because that’s what determines the success of a game. For example, look at The Sims or Rollercoaster Tycoon. Any game that expects to sell 2, 3, or 4 million units has to appeal to a wide variety of people.

I mean, how can you feel bad if you entertain millions of people? That’s what keeps us in business.

Says someone not in business anymore. He took the path of making forgettable games for people who don't care about gaming, then got surprised when there was no devout fan-based to fund his Kickstarter...

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I thought that was a quote by another Chris Taylor for a sec there

Luckily he's still untainted by the modern world.

edit: lol nvm he's making the poe card game or something

 

[Jools]

Also, because I'm an asshole, here's a quote from Chris Taylor in 2003:

Some people have criticized us of that, but those are the hardcore gamers – the people who love to micromanage things. What we tried to do was appeal to all nationalities and market to the Asia-Pacific rim, to Europe, the US. To sell to men and women, young kids (we had to change some things to get a Teen rating) as well as appeal to people who are older and just want to sit back and have fun.

So we really wanted to make a game that appealed to a wide audience, because that’s what determines the success of a game. For example, look at The Sims or Rollercoaster Tycoon. Any game that expects to sell 2, 3, or 4 million units has to appeal to a wide variety of people.

I mean, how can you feel bad if you entertain millions of people? That’s what keeps us in business.

Says someone not in business anymore. He took the path of making forgettable games for people who don't care about gaming, then got surprised when there was no devout fan-based to fund his Kickstarter...

These guys, they could really use some working experience in corporate sales or account managing. Maybe they'd actually learn how much more profitable is a long-lasting relationship built with a happy, returning customer, than having loads of "casual" customers who are gonna be happy for a few minutes/days/weeks before the next shark comes along and makes them happier for the next 5 minutes, rinse and repeat and so on... Most companies in finance have moved from the "play the numbers" (typical of 80s and 90s) to the "quality over quantity" approach when it comes to building and maintaining their customer base. Shame these entertainment industry gurus are so stuck up their own asses.

 

[AMG]

Also, because I'm an asshole, here's a quote from Chris Taylor in 2003:

Some people have criticized us of that, but those are the hardcore gamers – the people who love to micromanage things. What we tried to do was appeal to all nationalities and market to the Asia-Pacific rim, to Europe, the US. To sell to men and women, young kids (we had to change some things to get a Teen rating) as well as appeal to people who are older and just want to sit back and have fun.

So we really wanted to make a game that appealed to a wide audience, because that’s what determines the success of a game. For example, look at The Sims or Rollercoaster Tycoon. Any game that expects to sell 2, 3, or 4 million units has to appeal to a wide variety of people.

I mean, how can you feel bad if you entertain millions of people? That’s what keeps us in business.

Says someone not in business anymore. He took the path of making forgettable games for people who don't care about gaming, then got surprised when there was no devout fan-based to fund his Kickstarter...

His studio got bought by the world of tanks, so he is in business.

Looking at his wikipedia it seems he basically worked on Total Annihilation, Dungeon Siege and Supreme Commander. Some Space Siege and Demigod shit in between. That's not really portfolio of some horrible sellout who betrayed hardcore gamers. "Siege" games aside (and even those have some fans) those are some beloved strategy games. Need I remind that before KS our savior Fargo was producing such hits as Hunted Demon Forge and Choplifter HD?

I am pretty sure his kickstarter failed not because of some shitty games he made in the past but instead of tapping into nostalgia he tried to do something weird and his pitch was shit. I bet if he said "NEW TOTAL ANNIHILATION FROM THE CREATOR OF TOTAL ANNIHILATION!!!!!1", he would get his money. In fact, that's more or less what some other guys did and they got funded.

Look at Schafer, even after being exposed as a fraud in his 1st Kickstarter he still got funded, because Le Psychonauts 2.