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Dragon Age: Inquisition is a better game than Pillars of Eternity

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
DA:O was good too, imo. But surprisingly much easier, at least for me. I don't remember having any real trouble in any battle. Probably the infinite healing was the cause..
 

Prime Junta

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Don't know, man, I wouldn't go that far. Granted, I still haven't done my "Hard" playthrough with PoE, so my opinion is subject to change. But the enounter design does not seem to be on par, which hurts PoE's gameplay quite a bit.

This is true. Pillars' best encounters aren't as good as BG2's best encounters. The mechanics, though...
 

Lhynn

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Don't know, man, I wouldn't go that far. Granted, I still haven't done my "Hard" playthrough with PoE, so my opinion is subject to change. But the enounter design does not seem to be on par, which hurts PoE's gameplay quite a bit.

This is true. Pillars' best encounters aren't as good as BG2's best encounters. The mechanics, though...
The mechanics are actually the worst part of PoE, and thats saying something when the writing is about as inspirational as a stick with shit smeared all over it.
 

Lhynn

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I dont, they are awful shit and i dont see why you like them, overdesigned, uninspired crap that doesnt even work as an abstraction.
 

King Crispy

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Strap Yourselves In
While PoE undeniably has many flaws it's still a pretty damn good game and people who make claims like "DA:I is better than PoE r00fles":

1. Played PoE for a few hours while clicking through all dialogue without even attempting to understand what's going on

I'm through two acts of PoE, somehow. I trudged my way through it because I feel as if it's my duty to attempt to complete a game that was supposed to at least in spirit be a sequel to Baldur's Gate. I've made it through seven levels of Odd Odor or whatever the megadungeon is called, and I'm trying with all my might to explore the mind-staggeringly boring Defiance Bay still. I read all the dialogue, I try to complete the quests given to me. I think it's safe to say that I'm not just casually glancing through the game. It fucking sucks.

2. Are trolling, because saying shit like this can have the same effect as saying "hey guys did you know Oblivion is actually a better game than Gothic 2"

While there may or may not be some trolling component to this thread (for this is Codex, afterall), the intent of the thread and its message remain sincere. I stick to my notion that there is more to dislike about PoE than there is to dislike about DA:I. And I'd never compare Oblivion to a game like Gothic 2. Gothic 3, maybe, but never Gothic 2.

3. Trying too hard to get some of them KKKs because "holy shit, a lot of people here seem to dislike this PoE game, I better join in so they will like me"

You'll have to take my word for it that I don't care one iota about Kodex Kool Kredits. If I did, I wouldn't have said half the things about myself that I have over the years. You can decide if you like me or not on your own.

4. Actually really enjoy games like Oblivion and Fallout 3 but will never admit it to not lose face

I played and finished both Oblivion and Fallout 3. Didn't like them, but I finished them. :troll:

And no, I've never played DA:I myself.

Then kindly do us a favor and shut the fuck up when we're discussing the topic of comparing DA:I to PoE.
 
Unwanted

The Nameless Pun

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While PoE undeniably has many flaws it's still a pretty damn good game and people who make claims like "DA:I is better than PoE r00fles":

1. Played PoE for a few hours while clicking through all dialogue without even attempting to understand what's going on

I'm through two acts of PoE, somehow. I trudged my way through it because I feel as if it's my duty to attempt to complete a game that was supposed to at least in spirit be a sequel to Baldur's Gate. I've made it through seven levels of Odd Odor or whatever the megadungeon is called, and I'm trying with all my might to explore the mind-staggeringly boring Defiance Bay still. I read all the dialogue, I try to complete the quests given to me. I think it's safe to say that I'm not just casually glancing through the game. It fucking sucks.

2. Are trolling, because saying shit like this can have the same effect as saying "hey guys did you know Oblivion is actually a better game than Gothic 2"

While there may or may not be some trolling component to this thread (for this is Codex, afterall), the intent of the thread and its message remain sincere. I stick to my notion that there is more to dislike about PoE than there is to dislike about DA:I. And I'd never compare Oblivion to a game like Gothic 2. Gothic 3, maybe, but never Gothic 2.

3. Trying too hard to get some of them KKKs because "holy shit, a lot of people here seem to dislike this PoE game, I better join in so they will like me"

You'll have to take my word for it that I don't care one iota about Kodex Kool Kredits. If I did, I wouldn't have said half the things about myself that I have over the years. You can decide if you like me or not on your own.

4. Actually really enjoy games like Oblivion and Fallout 3 but will never admit it to not lose face

I played and finished both Oblivion and Fallout 3. Didn't like them, but I finished them. :troll:

And no, I've never played DA:I myself.

Then kindly do us a favor and shut the fuck up when we're discussing the topic of comparing DA:I to PoE.
Damn, I've never played dai myself but can't miss the chance to shittalk this game and those who have played it whenever I can. Carpe diem, dat sexy latin.
 

Lone Wolf

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DA:I is a great game... if offline MMOs are your life's passion.

It has nothing 'big' to say; its underlying ideas (in a thematic sense) are shallow puddles of grand fantasy schlock. The world it tries to build is gamey, hollow and uninspired, despite the amazing visuals on offer. Nothing feels lived in. There's no sense of congruence in terms of time, space or consequence. The story is conventional and safe, much like DAIs cousins (DA:O, DA2). All this, while barely registering as an RPG, technically speaking.

POE, for all its faults, is a 'big RPG'. Despite the shoddy itemization (somewhat improved in the expansion(s)) and class differentiation, it puts interesting ideas on the plate about fate/destiny, free will and inherent nature. Its world is constructed, rather than thrown together. Say what you will about Sawyer as mechanics designer, but this is a man who's clearly read a lot of history, and tried to make a world that felt 'real'. Not grand fantasy 'real', or plausibly fantastical, but authentic and convincing. A world that lives its ideas. Eora makes sense internally. Every enemy has a place in its food web. Spells have history and basis. Ruins weren't always ruins. Places are positioned in a rational way, with a geography that works.

The game is a spiritual successor to both BG1 (wilderness areas and exploration, low level cap, stakes involved etc) and BG2 (both concerned with self-discovery, the nature of self and one's place). It does some things better (in particular, world building, which is not as 'magical' as Faerun, but is infinitely more convincing as a space; character interaction) and some things less well (itemization, character building and pacing). If they make a POE2, I am extremely optimistic that they'll show the same level of improvement as that of BG1->BG2.

Ultimately, however, there's no objective way to decide which game is 'better'. All of the above is my personal view, obviously.
 

Nihiliste

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I enjoyed PoE for what it was for a time but didn't end up finishing it despite spending a lot of money backing it. Haven't tried the expansion either.

At the end of the day, the biggest disappointment was the lack of passion. This project was sold to us as a passion project, as something that was going to involve Avellone/Cain/Sawyer to give us positive elements of all of the IE games. They gave us the impression that they were itching to do a game like this if only it were financially viable.

Playing through it, one quickly realizes that the passion was the biggest lie of the sales pitch. These guys didn't really care to recreate was great about the IE games, they just went out to produce something that superficially appeared to be the same. The writing, the mechanics, the setting just utterly lack soul and feels like a group just going through the motions. The only people who really executed on PoE were Kaz and the rest of the art team.
 

Lhynn

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This project was sold to us as a passion project,

No it wasn't. Josh was very clear that it wasn't.
It was a labor born from desperation and handled with the utmost disgust in some places and apathy in others. And it shows it every step of the way.

As opposed to DA:I which was a labor born from desperation and handled with the utmost incompetence and lack of talent. And for better of for worse it still managed to bring more interesting writing to the table.
 
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Pillars of Eternity is too good atmospherically for Dragon Age: Inquisition to have a chance. Eora "feels" like a richer setting than what Thedas has become. Mechanics and writing don't always back that up (and it didn't have to be that way), but there's hope they'll improve on the next iteration.
 
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Ellef

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2. Are trolling, because saying shit like this can have the same effect as saying "hey guys did you know Oblivion is actually a better game than Gothic 2"

This is not even close to that sort of comparison, as literally nobody here would entertain that notion.

It has nothing 'big' to say; its underlying ideas (in a thematic sense) are shallow puddles of grand fantasy schlock. The world it tries to build is gamey, hollow and uninspired, despite the amazing visuals on offer. Nothing feels lived in. There's no sense of congruence in terms of time, space or consequence. The story is conventional and safe, much like Pillows' 'predecessors'(BG2, IWD2). All this, while barely registering as an RPG, technically speaking.

Correct. That said, I'll never bring myself to play DA:I and can't imagine it being better than Pillows from what little shit I've seen.
 
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Prime Junta

Guest
DA:I is a great game... if offline MMOs are your life's passion.

It has nothing 'big' to say; its underlying ideas (in a thematic sense) are shallow puddles of grand fantasy schlock. The world it tries to build is gamey, hollow and uninspired, despite the amazing visuals on offer. Nothing feels lived in.

I sliiiightly disagree with this actually. Not about the world, story, themes etc., that's all true. However, I was quite impressed by the area design. Visually, the maps have a quite a lot of depth and complexity to them, with coherent architectural styles in various stages of ruin overlaying each other, sometimes built on each other; the villages etc. are laid out sensibly and give a feeling of a place that somebody could actually live in, and so on. Considering the sheer size of it, I was surprised at how "hand-crafted" it looked and felt.

All that would have deserved a much better story and much, much better game mechanics to fill it. It's a little sad really.
 

Lone Wolf

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How do you figure the class differentiation is shoddy?

I think the whole 'flatten the landscape' so that every choice is similarly viable for almost every situation was a bad idea.

But it's not a major complaint for me re: PoE, just something that could have been done better.

However, I was quite impressed by the area design.

Maybe I didn't stop long enough to smell the coffee, but in fifteen hours I can't say I had the same reaction. I was impressed by the quality of the visuals, but not a great deal of the design work seemed interesting or particularly thought out.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
How do you figure the class differentiation is shoddy?

I think the whole 'flatten the landscape' so that every choice is similarly viable for almost every situation was a bad idea.

But... it's... not like that!

It is true that it's hard to build a complete squib in Pillars: assigning attributes and picking talents completely at random will likely result in a playable character. However, the difference between that and a 'power build' is huge, as is the difference between an average, sensible build and a 'power build.'

More to the point, the way you build a character as a massive impact on how it plays.

Consider the ranger. Pump DEX and PER, pick Swift Aim, Swift and Steady, Weapon Focus: Soldier, Stalker's Link, and Penetrating Shot, and you'll be laying down a withering hail of arquebus fire or arbalest bolts while coordinating with your pet. Pump RES, CON, and INT, take Wounding Shot, Merciless Companion, Vicious Companion, and other abilities that stack pet damage, wear heavy armour and a shield, and you'll be an off-tank that doesn't do much damage, but your pet will hit like a freight train, moreso if you have someone else in the party to apply DoT. Completely different experience.

Same thing with, say, the paladin: build it around Flames of Devotion and you've got a scary alpha-striker who boosts damage for the whole party with Inspiring Triumph. Build it around support abilities, and you've got a tank who will make the entire party hit harder and fight longer.

Or, do you have a specific example?
 
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ZagorTeNej

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Dec 10, 2012
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Origins has better choice and consequence in its quests, and the dwarf noble origin is rad.

I can't think of anything else in it that I like better than PoE though.

-Boss encounters and set piece fights, some of them could be considered gimmicky for sure but entertaining none the less, they usually threw something new at you and you had to adapt. Didn't play the newer PoE versions but in the one I did, I could barely differentiate between boss fights and dozens of copy-paste trash mob encounter leading up to it.

-Itemization, while horrid in both games (MMO inspired shit) I still preferred in DAO because of lack of omnipotent crafting, some nice armor sets and more useful accessory items (rings, belts, helms, gloves etc.).

-Party members had some semblance of a back bone and could even turn on you in specific moments, in PoE they're just docile servants (regardless of their story/ending slide).
 

Lone Wolf

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Or, do you have a specific example?

Rationally, I can offer no response worth a damn.

It's more of the gut feeling of looking at the class list and their abilities, and being inspired by none of them.
 

ZagorTeNej

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Pillars of Eternity is too good atmospherically for Dragon Age: Inquisition to have a chance. Eora "feels" like a richer setting than what Thedas has become. Mechanics and writing don't always back that up (and it didn't have to be that way), but there's hope they'll improve on the next iteration.

True but the bigger issue I have is that the setting as it is just doesn't seem to lend itself well to the overabundance of fantastical stuff in it. On one hand it feels low key and historically inspired (with some sci-fi vibes in things like the origin of Gods with Thaos resembling a mad scientist) while on the other hand it has D&D bestiary, dragons, elves, dwarfs and fireballs which (for me) feel out of place in it.

IMO they would have been better off replacing magic entirely with something like alchemy (a la Darklands) and making fantastic creatures be extremely rare, the result of some botched science experiments or obscure rituals and thought only to exist in folklore and legends (instead of them being common as dirt).
 

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