Game News DoubleBear Reveals Dead State GUI

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Are you under the impression that every TB game with stats, action points, hit points, and party is just like JA2? There is a reason why JA2 stands alone.

It was a tactical combat game first and foremost. No game that's not aiming to be a JA2 successor and has (a) different main feature(s) will ever come close to JA2's level of tactical goodness. Clearly, Dead State isn't about attacking zombies' positions, so...

Or perhaps it's not a JA2-like game at all. Just a thought.

Good, perhaps someone should make it clear what it is. At least until the funding begins. It should not the task of the backers to guess it. And I am getting constantly tired of devs who dither around and don't want to disclose what type of game they are making, while I have only 4 weeks to decide if I should join the project.

I had also initally thought that this was a tactical squad rpg similar to JA2, which explains my great enthusiasm until page 3 or so. I was promptly corrected it's more like Fallout.

Currently I'm assuming it is more like Fallout. But the thread is still young, and I'm not sure that's the end of it.

Not sure about what you mean with .Left, .Right - typically you have widget.x, widget.y. And width / height is about the content of the widget - which changes e.g. if you let the user define a custom font size. So if you don't have a very sophisticated layout engine (think CSS) your work isn't done by just using relative coordinates for your main gui elements ("containers").

The thing is, once you go that route (dynamic gui) you just postpone the problem. Someday somebody will break even that one. Just use STRGousewheel to zooom in / out on your codex window to test it for yourself.

That is the same.

I just mean it is not exactly rocket science to scale UIs when the basic pseudocode is nothing more than:

foreach (control c in .controls)
{

c.x = resolution.width / c.relativePosX

c.y = resolution.height / c.relativePosY

c.width = resolution.width / c.relativeWidth

c.height = resolution.height / c.relativeHeight

}

I know you have to do a lot more to get it working in practice, but it's not like it is super hard to do.

I'd disagree on that one - because it is always about the details. A dynamic gui is a complex system on it's own and making that system work is doable, for sure. But if you have other complex systems to maintain (gameplay mechanics) especially indies have to prioritise. Even more if their toolkit doesn't support that out of the box. And having a generic toolkit that works for all applications involves a massive process (hence the CSS examples).

I'm a bit biased on this one though - because I know from experience there is no gui programmer solely devoted to making the gui work (again, indy dev scope) - merely THE (or ONE of the) programmer(s) who also makes the gui work.

It's been crystal clear from day one. It's a zombie game focused on survival (not on combat) and dealing with other survivors.

I have to say the UI doesn't look great. The in-game UI looks serviceable, but the character screen - the hideous coloured tabs that look like post-it note pieces, portraits that fit neither the game, nor the interface style, nor look good in any way whatsoever; perk/stat/skill markers that again stick out like a sore thumb but it's not even easy to tell what they are at a quick glance. I won't argue about how 'clean' it looks, since I don't exactly think everything should have zombie feces on them, but there's really nothing appealing about these interfaces except for the fact that they show critical information and don't actively hinder player use.

If that's the best they could do with an artist, oh well - you can't have everything in an indie production, and at least it's useable.

Yeah, at least it's not the Fallout 3/New Vegas interface (which looks even worse) and you don't have to go through 10 screens to get the same information you could get in 1.

As already said - looking at tasks that way won't help you here. Isolated systems are not hard to create. Making those systems work together is the hard part. Creating a 3D-model is not hard. Integrating it into your game, is. (as in: no button click & ready). Writing a theroetical AI system is "not hard" (though you need a lot of experience in that field!), combining your gameplay mechanics and other factors with the ai is. That iterates through the whole process of making a game. And we haven't even scratched topics like team dynamics etc.

So from an indy dev pov, whenever I read "this would be sooo easy if they just..." I can't help but think that claims like that are made without knowing the whole picture. Of course, from a customer pov this is mostly irrelevant stuff. Just trying to give some pointers for those who want to understand "this stuff" a bit better.

That I agree with.

Then I guess it's pretty much settled that this will be a zombie mod for AoD. A visual novel with management aspects and a world to run around to justify it being a "3D game".

No, not really that funny. If you are programming such a fixed and constipated interface in the first place, you're doing something very very wrong. Giving the players the option to customise interface is one thing. It will involve a lot of extras like new functions and interfaces to adjust all of that stuff and to make it behave properly. Giving that option to the developers for the ability to do quick iterations is another. If that's as difficult as it's made out to be, then it's a case of poor programming.

Truly spoken like someone who really hasn't played any of those widescreen mods. Brings a new dimension to "people talking about stuff they don't know about".

So edgy you're practically round?

There couldn't be vaguer statement. Some could argue that JA2 is a military survival game focused on surviving military conflicts and dealing with other military people. You start out with little. Death comes swiftly. Injuries take time to heal. Simply surviving can become a tough business. And you have to manage your finances, sectors you control and your equipment all the time. Definitely a military survival game.

Sure. And some could argue that Doom is a military survival game focused on surviving the demonic hordes using the tactical arsenal at your disposal.

I'm sure you know what I meant, but if you want to pretend that you don't, go nuts.

What? AoD IS a visual novel with optional combat. 3D gameworld is an extra and the game could exist perfectly fine without it since it's not a sandbox game the way Fallout is. If ZRPG will be the same, which is absolutely not clear whether it will be or not so I'm just being stingy to get an answer, then zombie mod for AoD is what it is going to be.

So touchy you're practically numb?

Unless you or Annie/Brian would like to clear some confusion and tell us how the game works instead of what the game is about. I personally can not tell and can only guess based on precedence.

It's a very different game with different goals and mechanics. Brian has posted a lot about the game, so if you're curious, visit the forums and read about it.

It's not my game.

Is it so hard to describe how the game will work? People, hear: ZRPG is a "Zombie game focused on survival".

So, once again, what does that mean? Tells me absolutely nothing about the game.

And while at it, let's also add the fact how a lot of people were surprised by what manner of game AoD is, what with everyone expecting a Fallouty game after so many years. Certainly, it couldn't be your fault now, could it?

I have. Just as I have read about AoD through years. Like all the other people here. Who were all equally surprised by its nature. After year after year after year of reading about AoD.

Certainly, there needs to be some kind of lesson, a clue, to learn in there, instead of playing the quote game, no?

That's the thing, if they don't know themselves, which I actually doubt, how could they possibly pitch the idea in the first place. Before they start asking for funds, I need to know whether it will be a visual novel or an actual game. Right now, it's impossible to tell.

Certainly couldn't.

First, I've never said it's gonna be like Fallout. Second, I was very clear about the design process and various mechanics, including combat difficulty, checks, teleporting, no filler, and issues they've created. Anyone who's actually read my posts instead of imagining what the game must be like based on the facts that it had a Fallout-like gui and my nick is Vault Dweller (I mean, come ON, right?), shouldn't have been surprised by anything in the demo.

Right. And there is only good programming out there. That's why everybody uses the same software. Good point.

Soo... let's assume I install a classic game and look for mods. Then I discover a widescreen patch - which provides examples on how the game will look like. And now let's assume I look at those examples and decide FOR MYSELF that the fonts are too tiny for MY TASTE - would I install those despite the fact that I won't enjoy playing the game or would I not install this patch because IT DOES NOT improve the game FOR ME?

Out of curiosity, what did you think it would be and in which way it's disappointed you?

Two thoughts that I also had. The only thing remotely like a classroom is clearly a cafeteria with drink machines. I am not US so I am not sure how they build their schools, but it does seem like someone screwed up there.

I don't like the Goosebumps portrait art especially, and the rest of it is just not indicative of the kind of mood you want in a game like this. It is very tempting to go with a GUI theme that tries to "makes sense" i.e. the school theme, but as can be seen here, doing that usually leads you off in a bad direction, and you would have been far better off going with something that didn't try to "make sense" but simply was functional and coloured/textured correctly.