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Doom vs Brutal Doom - DISCUSS!

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After playing so many times the original vanilla campaigns sometimes I like some change. BD makes game harder and faster, so I'm ok with some stuff (like fatalities, which are optional and player dependable). There could be less blood sometimes, because of the fps drops when you have Serious Sam situation at hand. The alternate shooting option with the super shotgun can be very helpful in tight corridors. Probably the best when used on those hell knight. Being damaged by plasma rifle where you are face to face with the monsters adds more challenge. The alternate fire is useless though, better concentrate fire and after killing move it to the next target. Rocket launcher is making more damage and has a bigger splat ratio, need to have some distance between you and the target. BFG is good for big packs as always. There are more gameplay changes, and when you add them all not everyone will like the new Doom. It plays and feels diffrent. I usually leave the vanilla gameplay when trying some .wads which use too many custom assets to work properly. Other than that, BD is good for some skirmishes.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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Lyric Suite

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After playing so many times the original vanilla campaigns sometimes I like some change. BD makes game harder and faster, so I'm ok with some stuff (like fatalities, which are optional and player dependable). There could be less blood sometimes, because of the fps drops when you have Serious Sam situation at hand. The alternate shooting option with the super shotgun can be very helpful in tight corridors. Probably the best when used on those hell knight. Being damaged by plasma rifle where you are face to face with the monsters adds more challenge. The alternate fire is useless though, better concentrate fire and after killing move it to the next target. Rocket launcher is making more damage and has a bigger splat ratio, need to have some distance between you and the target. BFG is good for big packs as always. There are more gameplay changes, and when you add them all not everyone will like the new Doom. It plays and feels diffrent. I usually leave the vanilla gameplay when trying some .wads which use too many custom assets to work properly. Other than that, BD is good for some skirmishes.

The original argument was that Brutal Doom is a more refined and expanded version of basic Doom, hence, why Doom 4 ought to base itself on Brutal Doom rather than original Doom. Essentially, the argument is that Brutal Doom is Doom but better, which to me is total bullshit. I don't have a problem with Brutal Doom in and of itself, i just don't think it supplants the original game in any way or form or is some kind of "natural" evolution of the original formula.
 

ZagorTeNej

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Excellent summary.
Duke 3D's level design is the most impressive of all. But most 3D games around that time had outstanding level design.

Yeah, smart level design is largely a lost art today, it seems all modern FP games are either ultra linear, have arena like levels or are sandboxes. One big exception is Dishonored which has old-school level design, especially the DLCs which are better than the main game.
 

St. Toxic

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The original argument was that Brutal Doom is a more refined and expanded version of basic Doom, hence, why Doom 4 ought to base itself on Brutal Doom rather than original Doom.

What's wrong with that? Brutal Doom is simply additional content added to the original game, so basing your sequel on the original game + added content simply gives you more options to work with. This isn't an isometric turn-based RPG getting re-imagined as an fps, it's just a bit of extra fluff added to a cult classic; whatever ID decides to do with the franchise, they're not going to ignore every so-called innovation in the genre over the past two decades in order to release a map-pack and a graphics update to the same core gameplay. If they're getting their main inspiration from the modding community working on IT1, at least they're looking at Doom games rather than, I don't know, Far Cry or some other irrelevant shit. And hopefully we'll get to see enemy corpses that stick around and break rather than ragdoll before vanishing into thin air.

Essentially, the argument is that Brutal Doom is Doom but better, which to me is total bullshit. I don't have a problem with Brutal Doom in and of itself, i just don't think it supplants the original game in any way or form or is some kind of "natural" evolution of the original formula.

Thinking back to Doom 3 and how it clashed with the rest of the series, I would think BD simply addressed a growing need for a content patch that attempted to work within the established framework of the franchise without merely changing textures and adding horrendous 3d-models. Then again, original Doom was supplanted by the first wad emulator that allowed for higher resolutions and mouselook as far as I'm concerned.
 

Gragt

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[…]

Brutal Doom, then, is Doom taken to another level. To quote the description of a particular Youtube video, it’s "The only mod which makes Doom even MORE like Doom." And it’s all there to see. More gore, punchier sounds and animations. Monsters crawl around with their guts hanging out as others are torn apart by your chaingun, Doomguy turning from a player self-insert of sorts to a wise-cracking sadistic testosterone freak. All done with the power of modern sourceports. The language used to refer to it reflects the notion that this is Doom “turned up to 11” - Gameplay enhancement. Improved animations. Better gore.

But the mods which make Doom more like Doom have been out for years before Brutal Doom’s inception. Alien Vendetta. Scythe 2. Deus Vult 2. And none of these see fit to mess with weapon feel, gore effects or animations - the last of the 3 adding sunglasses to Doomguy’s head as a small stylistic touch. They’re just custom level packs, a few custom textures here and there. A custom enemy or two patches a hole in the bestiary. Nothing more.

This simple, old-fashioned, mindless shooter has entranced level designers for going on 20 years now. The Cacowards run every year to pick out some standout favourites, and thousands of wads are available to download and play. Most of which require little in the way of advanced engine features bar some limit removals and optimization.

While Doom was no doubt the product of a bunch of nerds doing what they love, the game offers a more intelligent gameplay palette than just about any other pure FPS in the world

[…]

It’s not artificial intelligence you fight in Doom. Most enemies have behaviour, no matter how diverse it is, that you could sum up in a sentence or two. But Doom’s simple tools and smart toolkit (as well as a graphical style allowing for highly abstract environments) allow level designers to set up encounters and environments around that behaviour, providing surprise, challenge and delight for players in equal measure. It’s not artificial intelligence you fight when you’re locked in a room full of Barons of Hell and Revenants and voicelessly asked to pick a side in the resulting infighting (It’ll take more ammo to finish off the barons, but revenants are more likely to give you a nasty right hook or slap you with a rocket in the process) - it’s human intelligence.

And now we come back to Brutal Doom1. Layers on layers of obsessively-researched and sourced gore sprites, about 100 times more unsettling gurgling and pitiful screams from your enemies. Doom’s hardly the cleanest of games, but it has a boyish charm to it - Doom is Eddie winking at you on the cover of an Iron Maiden album, Brutal Doom is a screaming face being pressed into a meat grinder on the cover of a Cannibal Corpse album.

Weapon “rebalancing” means hitscanners hit harder and revenants are pathetically frail, headshots add a completely unnecessary and confused element to the game, “fatality” animations quickly turn from shocking and visceral to stale, played-out and overlong. The BFG no longer has its quirks that require a blend of timing, elegance and aggression, being replaced with what can only be described as “a big dumb green rocket”. Brutal Doom is Doom with the intelligence taken out and all the viscera turned up to 11. Fine in small doses, the definitive experience it ain’t. And it will easily ruin most wads not designed with it in mind.

Doom is much more than a mindless demon-blasting experience to be fondly remembered and perhaps brought out for its quaint charms now and again. Some people want you to think it is - these are the people looking forward to unnecessary reboots of old IPs like Rise of The Triad, Wolfenstein and bizarrely Shadow Warrior, forever falling back on weapon inventory space and player run speed as indications of game quality.

They’re wrong.

http://blog.danbo.vg/post/50094276897/the-most-misunderstood-game-of-all-time
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
"I can think of no other way to describe the author of this blog other than a 'Doom Hipster'... if such a thing even exists."

Heh.
 

shihonage

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They took the Doom formula and fucked with every single part of it - damage, reload times, movement speeds - resulting in a hit-and-miss gameplay. Change for the sake of change. Throw enough darts and you'll hit something. The end result makes distinct impression of being aimed at ADD-riddled children.
 

Untermensch

Augur
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Brutal Doom is awesome. Fuck the haters.

Of course, I won't go so far as to say that it's the definitive Doom experience, since it most certainly isn't.
 
Unwanted

CyberP

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Yet another irrational blind rant. Let us have a look:

"Weapon “rebalancing” means hitscanners hit harder"

All weapons hit harder: hitscan weapons, projectiles move faster and have bigger blast radius, melee attacks do more damage. What is his point here?

"and revenants are pathetically frail"

They have the same amount of health as the vanilla Revenant. Headshots put them down faster but
they, like all BD's monsters, are a bigger threat, mainly because their rockets are faster and have a bigger blast radius.
So what is his point here? His reasoning?

", headshots add a completely unnecessary and confused element to the game"

Translates to: rewarding skill is
unnecessary and confused. And where is his reasoning again?

", “fatality” animations quickly turn from shocking and visceral to stale, played-out and overlong."

They were never shocking, they looked
ridiculous from the start.

"The BFG no longer has its quirks that require a blend of timing, elegance and aggression, being replaced with what can only be described as “a big dumb green rocket”."

Is this guy fucking serious? The BFG is essentially the same, only exchanging the hitscan attack with insane range for a smaller radius check.

"Brutal Doom is Doom with the intelligence taken out."

HA HA HA. Solid argument there you idiot. Ironic when the truth is the opposite: Brutal Doom makes Doom smarter, bit it is too much for many a tired old mind to handle it seems.
 
Unwanted

CyberP

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Dark Underlord is the biggest faggot. I'm getting tired of this text size randomization.
 

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