Doom vs Brutal Doom - DISCUSS!

[CthuluIsSpy]

Eh, I kind of prefer the original Icon of Sin.
The Brutal Icon of Sin is over doing it.

That said, I do enjoy Brutal Doom very much.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Perfect vanilla Doom II: less is more

Spoiler

A mockery for anyone who got so far.

Spoiler

Dumb mammals.

You keep just fucking proving my point with that shit. To wit, boss fights are the most boring shit ever and have nothing to do with why Doom is better than Brutal Doom anyway.

 

[Gragt]

Just came here to say that DooM was fucking perfect and that anyone who thinks that adding more DooM to DooM makes the game automatically better is retarded due to their simple failure to understand the concept of "less is more."

I do agree with your feeling that Doom, as it is, is excellent, but Id itself showed that the formula could be largely improved by adding a new weapon and a few new bad guys that each filled a niche. After that, and though I’m a bit of a purist when it comes to Doom, I don’t mind to see the community still alive and doing neat stuff. Even if I don’t find Brutal Doom attractive because it ruins many of the elements that made Doom great in the first place, it is good it was done if only to give a different flavour of the game. I’m perfectly fine using Crispy Doom, but to each his own flavour of Doom I say.

 

[Average Manatee]

Perfect vanilla Doom II: less is more

Spoiler

A mockery for anyone who got so far.

Spoiler

Dumb mammals.

Was making Brutal Doom look like shit with those piss-poor weapons, pathetic boss fight, and ridiculous overuse of graphical wank bullshit part of your plan?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

"Doom with its auto aiming, simplistic AI, stiff, unrewarding weaponry (by today's standards) was fucking PERFECT".

r u avin a giggle m8

Doom was (And is) perfect. The weapons had tactical variety. The pistol was (By and large) shit but accurate. The regular shotgun was the best all-rounder, decent damage and decent range and accuracy. Chaingun was especially valuable against cacodemons and pinkies because the rapid hits made them flinch and prevented attacks. Rocket launcher was dangerous because it was hugely self damaging if you were anywhere near the explosion but it was good both against tight groups and tough monsters, but tricky to fire well because Doom rockets are really slow. Plasma rifle was ammo inefficient due to firing like a hose and being non-hitscan but could kick out excellent damage. BFG was heavan against groups.

Then you gots yer monsters. The zombies are all extremely fragile, but since they use hitscan weapons they can easily nibble at your health. Especially in groups. Imps were some of the most common generic dudes and their projectiles could be dodged and even used to cause infighting. Pinkies were easy to deal with at range, but due to the low priority to immediately kill them they get to waddle up, then you have to shift priorities or else they'll bite your ass. Cacodemons have the ability to fly and are fat, which aren't particularly deadly features by themselves by when added in groups of other monsters it muddies the waters since you know the caco's dangerous but he's fat enough you also know it would take a little effort to kill him. Getting tired of typing so barons of hell and spider demons and map variety and etc etc etc youa re wrong r00fles

 

[CyberP]

r u avin a giggle m8

Doom was (And is) perfect.

The weapons had tactical variety. The pistol was (By and large) shit but accurate. The regular shotgun was the best all-rounder, decent damage and decent range and accuracy. Chaingun was especially valuable against cacodemons and pinkies because the rapid hits made them flinch and prevented attacks. Rocket launcher was dangerous because it was hugely self damaging if you were anywhere near the explosion but it was good both against tight groups and tough monsters, but tricky to fire well because Doom rockets are really slow. Plasma rifle was ammo inefficient due to firing like a hose and being non-hitscan but could kick out excellent damage. BFG was heavan against groups.

No doubt. Great balance, except for as you mentioned, the pistol. By stiff I meant the simplicity in their design - no recoil, no camera effects, auto aim & looking on one axis, and so on. This is not good simplicity. Recoil, manual aiming, reloading etc add much needed complexity to increase the skill cap and the various cosmetic effects add a nice bonus of making the guns feel empowering and like, well, guns.

Then you gots yer monsters. The zombies are all extremely fragile, but since they use hitscan weapons they can easily nibble at your health. Especially in groups. Imps were some of the most common generic dudes and their projectiles could be dodged and even used to cause infighting. Pinkies were easy to deal with at range, but due to the low priority to immediately kill them they get to waddle up, then you have to shift priorities or else they'll bite your ass. Cacodemons have the ability to fly and are fat, which aren't particularly deadly features by themselves by when added in groups of other monsters it muddies the waters since you know the caco's dangerous but he's fat enough you also know it would take a little effort to kill him. Getting tired of typing so barons of hell and spider demons

Nothing has changed in this regard. They all are just cranked up to actually provide a challenge and be the aggressive hellspawn you'd expect. They still retain their roles but now they are no longer worthless cannon fodder that hardly stood a chance.

and map variety and etc etc etc youa re wrong r00fles

The level design is Doom's true genius. This is another thing that remains the same though, untouched by BD by the most part.

Far-right fags. There's never a rational counter argument from the vanilla lovers either. Doom was a very well designed game but even as a 10 y/o it couldn't hold me quite like Duke Nukem 3D and others. However, Brutal Doom crowned it King once again.
See past the silly fatalities, the new design formula takes Doom closer to this so-called state of "perfection", if there ever was to be one.

Oh, and don't come out with some nonsense about monster balance and how it makes some WADs unplayable either, because I've yet to be beaten by many acclaimed WADs on Ultra Violence that were not designed with BD in mind. It seems to be agreed upon that only Hell Revealed and a couple other of the insane ones are unplayable, not that I give a shit. BD makes them redundant.

 

[CyberP]

Another game that I pity the fool who cannot appreciate it. It is gameplay heaven set in hell. Very engaging battles with hellspawn after hellspawn. No pure FPS is quite so stimulating.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Doom was a very well designed game but even as a 10 y/o it couldn't hold me quite like Duke Nukem 3D and others.

Duke 3D a shit with all those hitscan enemies. 1 v 1 me IRL.

Spoiler

I still think you're crazy for liking Duke over Doom and Brutal Doom over normal but it's hard to get too upset about it. And I'd prefer a new Doom leaning too heavily in the RIP AND TEAR direction than the slow horror direction, because while that was certainly a part of Doom when it first came out it isn't the enduring part of the game. God damn it Willits.

Spoiler

Not sure if double spoiling works but I'm living dangerously. Anyway, even ragging on Doom 3 I still mostly enjoyed it. Strangely enough Doom 3 feels more like Half-Life 1 than Half-Life 2 does. It's not entirely awful bro-op with a mod either, and graphically it's aged quite well.

 

[CyberP]

Doom 3 is garbage.
Brutal Doom made Doom my favorite pure FPS of all time.
Yes there was a lot of Hitscan enemies in Duke but most projectiles in vanilla doom were easily out-maneuverable. Brutal Doom increases projectile speed of all, and blast radius of most. Dodging hordes spamming projectiles at you is intense.
Rip & tear is nonsense. Just ignore it. It is a stain on a great mod but it is optional.
Honestly the battles with the AI is so fucking engaging on Ultra Violence and some reasonably hard WADs

 

[CyberP]

As for your challenge, I'll consider it - if we're using brutal doom

 

[Grunker]

Thank you for proving my point, AngryKobold. Brutal DooM is to DooM what the prequels are to StarWars: "hey if lightsabers are cool more lightsabers in each shot means a better movie, rite?"

 

[CyberP]

Thank you for proving my point, AngryKobold. Brutal DooM is to DooM what the prequels are to StarWars: "hey if lightsabers are cool more lightsabers in each shot means a better movie, rite?"

Just go and play the mod with TNT, Plutonia or something. Brutal Doom is legendary primarily because of its gameplay. Highly skill-based gameplay vs swarms of competent AI. A FPS is about shooting action first and foremost, and Brutal Doom takes FPS action to a new level never before achieved by a FPS.

It's more like taking lightsabers, making them require more skill to use and improved functionality, and then raising the intelligence/competence of the Galatic Empire. The result is more intelligent scenes involving any faction, more intense and awe-inspiring battles, a more rewarding experience. Everything else is secondary.

 

[AngryKobold]

Now I am sure nobody even got through the installation of GZDoom. Not mentioning running the actual mod with original WAD. Rubbish you write does not even make a sense. Like a retarded seagull, you just sit here and screech. It's like talking to wall with a dick drawn on it.

NONE of the four shit- throwing individuals has not referred to ANY of content provided by the mod. It's all just a mindless tossing of fecal matter. I honestly regret that I post any info about it here. Some of them will eventually run it and have some fun. That's unfair, as good things ought to stay inaccessible for simpletons.

Village idiots. Omega morons. You wouldn't recognize a successful upgrade even if stabbed with it in chest. Your dullness is overwhelming. Better to have no players at all than creatures like you. You deserve no good mole poppers. Wolfenstein 3D with untextured ceilings is all you deserve. Railroaded uninteractive movie shooters are all you deserve.

Get on my ignore list along with other tampon chewers. You don't meet the criteria for being displayed.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Basically, Brutal Doom is more

, rite?

But i guess there's no point arguing with the mentally deficient. For instance:

Far-right fags.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Now I am sure nobody even got through the installation of GZDoom.

Also, great job bringing out the "yuou probably liek Call of Dooty anyway trololo" retard argument.

 

[AngryKobold]

Thank you for proving my point, AngryKobold. Brutal DooM is to DooM what the prequels are to StarWars: "hey if lightsabers are cool more lightsabers in each shot means a better movie, rite?"

I really hope it's a joke. Not a good one.

 

[AngryEddy]

Thank you for proving my point, AngryKobold. Brutal DooM is to DooM what the prequels are to StarWars: "hey if lightsabers are cool more lightsabers in each shot means a better movie, rite?"

That's simply not true. Unless you like playing against imps who's fireballs are slow and weak, and '92 gibs, Brutal Doom is simply a step up. From making starter weapons viable all game, making enemies more threatening, letting you use Mancubus cannons/Revenant Launchers, turning the Demon Wall in to an actual boss monster, accentuating the already fast pace of doom, making the game more interactive [throwing barrels, more gibs, more gib quantities, interactive gibs, destructible lights, smoldering explosions etc.] I don't see how anyone could say it makes Doom a worse game, unless of course, they're being dishonest.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Notice the emphasis on gibs. Brutal Doom = trying too hard kiddie edition.

 

[AngryEddy]

Notice the emphasis on gibs. Brutal Doom = trying too hard kiddie edition.

 

[St. Toxic]

In the immortal words of the Brutal Doom Marine: "Fuck yourself."

 

[Destroid]

I always have to post this in discussions about these sorts of games:

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Duke 3D a shit with all those hitscan enemies. 1 v 1 me IRL.

Spoiler

I still think you're crazy for liking Duke over Doom and Brutal Doom over normal but it's hard to get too upset about it. And I'd prefer a new Doom leaning too heavily in the RIP AND TEAR direction than the slow horror direction, because while that was certainly a part of Doom when it first came out it isn't the enduring part of the game. God damn it Willits.

Spoiler

Not sure if double spoiling works but I'm living dangerously. Anyway, even ragging on Doom 3 I still mostly enjoyed it. Strangely enough Doom 3 feels more like Half-Life 1 than Half-Life 2 does. It's not entirely awful bro-op with a mod either, and graphically it's aged quite well.

Duke 3D doesn't have that many more hitscan enemy types (which were common for FPS of that era) than Doom, they just have faster reactions and are more aggressive, have some gimmicks that can give them the advantage (some of them can fly, teleport, jump, duck etc.) and non-hitscan enemies have faster traveling missiles.

He's certainly not crazy for liking Duke over Doom or any other shooter for that matter. Duke 3D has a protagonist with a personality, terrific level design that moved away from mazelike levels of Wolf 3D and Doom to levels that look like actual locations (set in environments ranging from urban to space stations) while keeping the complexity (multiple secrets per level, often multiple ways to progress through them, whole secret levels, a jetpack that allows greater freedom in movement and exploration etc.) and size, weapon arsenal that feels satisfying to use (especially explosive weapons which have a great blast radius compared to others shooters) and includes some unique weapons (like shrink ray and freezer), good enemy variety with interesting visual design and great audio effects (it's one of the only games where aliens/monsters actually sound terrifying/alien), greater environment interaction etc.

 

[CyberP]

He's certainly not crazy for liking Duke over Doom or any other shooter for that matter. Duke 3D has a protagonist with a personality, terrific level design that moved away from mazelike levels of Wolf 3D and Doom to levels that look like actual locations (set in environments ranging from urban to space stations) while keeping the complexity (multiple secrets per level, often multiple ways to progress through them, whole secret levels, a jetpack that allows greater freedom in movement and exploration etc.) and size, weapon arsenal that feels satisfying to use (especially explosive weapons which have a great blast radius compared to others shooters) and includes some unique weapons (like shrink ray and freezer), good enemy variety with interesting visual design and great audio effects (it's one of the only games where aliens/monsters actually sound terrifying/alien), greater environment interaction etc.

Excellent summary.
Duke 3D's level design is the most impressive of all. But most 3D games around that time had outstanding level design.

 

[TheGreatOne]

I don't see how anyone could say it makes Doom a worse game, unless of course, they're being dishonest.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The ultimate scrub argument.