Do you still only give orders to one character during combat

[Deacdo]

in this game?

It's been a while since I was here and I'm hoping that's changed.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There is only one character (i.e. no party), so yes

 

[Deacdo]

No party? So there will never be more than 1 character (your character) on your side during combat?

 

[Vault Dweller]

There won't be any followers like in Fallout or Arcanum if that's what you are asking. However, there are situations where you are given help (guards, faction members sticking up for you, etc). You don't control such NPCs, their actions are scripted.

 

[Ismaul]

I like it better this way. It's hard to roleplay a party, and games that allow you to create your party do that at the expense of roleplaying. Also, controlling NPCs in combat doesn't make much sense. Well, the only way it would work would be to base it off Charisma, the NPC's appreciation of your character, and the situation to determine how disposed he is to follow your orders. Plus, NPCs following the PC all the game often gets wierd, as the NPCs generally lose their motivations to follow the PC after a while, if there ever was any.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I like it this way also. I often found myself worrying too much about followers, more actually than myself.

 

[Deacdo]

This is interesting, but I'd still strongly prefer some control over the people in my team, even if it limited to directing their position or who to attack. Otherwise I'd rather not have any allies at all.

That said, it sounds like you don't spend much time in combat with a party, so I guess it isn't a big deal.

Somewhat surprising to see a game with turn-based combat where you're the only character, for the most part, though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

This is interesting, but I'd still strongly prefer some control over the people in my team, even if it limited to directing their position or who to attack. Otherwise I'd rather not have any allies at all.

Sometimes having allies helps, but the choice is yours. You either ask for help (see the dialogue screen) or you handle it all by yourself in a variety of ways.

If you do ask for help, that shouldn't mean that you are the one in charge and that everything would happen the way you want.

Somewhat surprising to see a game with turn-based combat where you're the only character, for the most part, though.

I think that party-based games work best with class-based systems and skill-based systems really shine in single-player games.

 

[Deacdo]

Sometimes having allies helps, but the choice is yours. You either ask for help (see the dialogue screen) or you handle it all by yourself in a variety of ways.

If you do ask for help, that shouldn't mean that you are the one in charge and that everything would happen the way you want.

It also shouldn't mean there is no communication between you and your allies. Seems like a good way to get killed, to me.

I think that party-based games work best with class-based systems and skill-based systems really shine in single-player games.

I think skill-based systems are best for all things (though class based systems are still OK).

Personally, my dream game would be a mix between Fallout and Jagged Alliance :drools:

 

[Vault Dweller]

If you do ask for help, that shouldn't mean that you are the one in charge and that everything would happen the way you want.

It also shouldn't mean there is no communication between you and your allies. Seems like a good way to get killed, to me.

Let's say that you were robbed by some bandits, you find the location of the camp, go to a nearby town and ask for help. Let's say that you were persuasive enough to convince the guards to send a small detachment of guards to deal with the bandits. Your role is to show the place, maybe do some scouting, if you are a sneaky type, etc. When the combat starts though, the guards won't pay any attention to you, won't try to protect your ass, etc. They would assume that if you are smart, you'll get the fuck out of harm's way, and if you are stupid, well.... Makes sense?

While the guards are fighting, you can join them if you are a fighting type, or loot the place quickly, or bring in more bandits if you are a double-crossing type.

I think skill-based systems are best for all things (though class based systems are still OK).

The problem with skill-based party-based games, imo, is that there is no need to develop speech skills for more than one character. While an entire party can fight and thus benefit from a variety of combat skills, only one person can talk at a time. Granted, a party member can interrupt a conversation (Arcanum), but I doubt it would work well all the time.

 

[Deacdo]

Let's say that you were robbed by some bandits, you find the location of the camp, go to a nearby town and ask for help. Let's say that you were persuasive enough to convince the guards to send a small detachment of guards to deal with the bandits. Your role is to show the place, maybe do some scouting, if you are a sneaky type, etc. When the combat starts though, the guards won't pay any attention to you, won't try to protect your ass, etc. They would assume that if you are smart, you'll get the fuck out of harm's way, and if you are stupid, well.... Makes sense?

While the guards are fighting, you can join them if you are a fighting type, or loot the place quickly, or bring in more bandits if you are a double-crossing type.

The problem with the lack of communication is if you're involved in the fight. All the rest is great, but doesn't really have anything to do with communicating just before and during a fight if you're a fighter type.

BTW, how is it going to work when the guards battle the bandits and you're not involved? With it be cutscene style or will it go into TBed mode and you'll have to sit through the whole thing?

The problem with skill-based party-based games, imo, is that there is no need to develop speech skills for more than one character. While an entire party can fight and thus benefit from a variety of combat skills, only one person can talk at a time. Granted, a party member can interrupt a conversation (Arcanum), but I doubt it would work well all the time.

It's no different with class based systems. Those same issues are still noticeable in any class based RPG title I've ever seen.

BTW, how ambitious are your design goals for this game? Seems like you're trying to do a lot of neat stuff....

 

[Vault Dweller]

The problem with the lack of communication is if you're involved in the fight. All the rest is great, but doesn't really have anything to do with communicating just before and during a fight if you're a fighter type.

What do you mean? Like coordinating attacks? Calling for help? Give me some examples.

BTW, how is it going to work when the guards battle the bandits and you're not involved? With it be cutscene style or will it go into TBed mode and you'll have to sit through the whole thing?

TB mode and you can do whatever you want: fight, run, loot, talk, sneak, etc

It's no different with class based systems. Those same issues are still noticeable in any class based RPG title I've ever seen.

True, but at least a good class-based system will make characters more distinctive.

BTW, how ambitious are your design goals for this game? Seems like you're trying to do a lot of neat stuff....

I wanted to make a game with many choices and consequences. A lot of "neat stuff" is in dialogues and windows (i.e. I don't need to show climbing over a wall animations as a simple window stating that you have successfully applied your mad climbing skillz and now are on the other side of the wall will do.)

 

[Deacdo]

What do you mean? Like coordinating attacks? Calling for help? Give me some examples.

Mainly what I mentioned before. Have it so that you, or perhaps the "leader", say who to attack, or what position to take. Calling for help (both you and your allies) also would be good. Given the way the game seems to be designed, something more complex like coordinated attacks (particularly since you wouldn't have fought together before) doesn't seem necessary. Maybe have a "retreat" command, assuming you can run away in AoD. A command (or alert) to identify particularly dangerous situations would be good, but that depends mostly on the complexity of the combat system and environments.

It could also depend on how organized your allies are.

TB mode and you can do whatever you want: fight, run, loot, talk, sneak, etc

OK. BTW, is there any "simultaneous" movement for when you have a lot of allies/enemies ahead of you before your turn?

True, but at least a good class-based system will make characters more distinctive.

That's a feature I find is related to skill systems, not class systems. AFAIC, class-based systems just add artificial restrictions and most characters of the same class are too similar.

I wanted to make a game with many choices and consequences. A lot of "neat stuff" is in dialogues and windows (i.e. I don't need to show climbing over a wall animations as a simple window stating that you have successfully applied your mad climbing skillz and now are on the other side of the wall will do.)

That's good. Will it be a big game? Are you doing this project alone? Do you intend to go the route of Spiderweb software (et al) and try and sell the game over the 'net?

 

[Vault Dweller]

OK. BTW, is there any "simultaneous" movement for when you have a lot of allies/enemies ahead of you before your turn?

No. Usually you deal with 2-3 enemies at a time since there is no party, so waiting for a turn isn't an issue there.

AFAIC, class-based systems just add artificial restrictions and most characters of the same class are too similar.

I was talking about different classes. Agree about restrictions though.

Will it be a big game? Are you doing this project alone? Do you intend to go the route of Spiderweb software (et al) and try and sell the game over the 'net?

Same length as Fallout. 7-people team. Yes.

 

[Deacdo]

Cool. It gives me some hope that the game will actually get released