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Divinity or Eternity?

Which is better?


  • Total voters
    405

Roguey

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Staff Member
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PoE s writing and world building with Divinitys combat would be a game hard to beat within the genre. Sadly it always seems to come down to a trade-off between those two.

I want to play a game that's good from start to finish.

Maybe if it ended with Cyseal.
 

Snorkack

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Just played two hours of PoE and it's already more engaging than Divinity could manage at any time. I think it's safe for me to vote already.
 

JasonNH

Augur
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
277
As a Larian fanboy and someone who is also really enjoying PoE, there is simply no way I can advise one over the other. I think it depends on which side of your brain has the bigger itch. If you're in the mood for an immersive story-telling experience with lots of nostalgia and good-enough-for-rtwp combat, PoE is looking great. If you're more in the mood for an exploration, puzzle solving, crafting, ultima 7-with-great-combat game, go D:OS.
 

Mangoose

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Div:OS's writing's problem is not that it's not serious enough but that it's too serious. As long as we are dealing with whimsical adventuring the writing is fine, nothing great but overall enjoyable. Then the main storyline kicks in and some edgy retard appears to spout some of the most meaningless, cringeworthy lines ever. This is a constant for most of Larian games. They should read some more Prachett's books or even watch some animus to learn how to merge serious and whimsical. Still the game is pretty great despite the main storyline, pretty much just like all of their games.
Well that's mainly it for me. I never really felt the story intrude much. I just dicked around a lot exploring.

I agree completely the main story is... ehhhh.

It's not that it was intrusive. It's that it was bad and didn't blend too well with the overall atmosphere of the game. It would be better if they went all the way with whimsical gimmicky villains like King Boreas and The Baron of Bones instead of going with Black Circle 2.0 (or perhaps 0.5 since it takes place before DD?).
Oh, that is what I meant to say. That iit's not intrusive, which is what made the overall dialogue (which means including all the side quests) passable to me.

Now DOS does have its weaknesses.

I completely agree with complaints that:
Exploration and tricks are much sparser past Cyseal. Not completely gone, but I think it's somewhat below decent.
Bad skill balance which leads to pigeonholed builds.
AI that doesn't take advantage of terrain effects (with exceptions).
The sparser non-combat past Cyseal makes the rest of the game less interesting. Lack of enemy variety and encounter variety also plays in part. Boreas and Baron of Bones are excellent examples of what should have been done that you mentioned.
Terrible persuasion system.

That being said, being able to "exploit" the system to provide alternate paths was really really great. And as for combat, there are some fun spells that are not just +/- damage, and not based on environment or teleport abuse. I love the Ice piercing move (been a while since I played any games), positioning correctly and bam, you have C/Ced a good amount of enemies without a typical "C/C circle AOE." Unfortunately, again, there are not enough of such spells.
 

set

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
So far it sits like this for me - in regard to recent RPGs anyway:

Path-err Pillars of Ex- Eterenity - mechanics good, story good
Shadowrun Dragonfall - mechanics good, story good
Divinity Original Sin - mechanics great, story lacking
Darkest Dungeon - mechanics good, story lacking
Age of Decadence - mechanics okay, story good
Underrail - mechanics okay, story okay
Lords of Xulima - mechanics good, story lacking
Shadowrun Returns - mechanics okay, story lacking
Deadstate - mechanics really lacking, story lacking
Wasteland 2 - mechanics lacking, story okay

And by mechanics, I pretty much mean battle/exploration/itemization/challenge/freedom. By story, I mostly mean consequences/choices/party members/world aesthetics/theme/characterization.

I agree except Underrail, it probably has the best mechanics of all IMHO. Especially if we consider LoXs mechanics good.
After all years without proper RPGs, I'm not gonna be picky and embrace them all equal. (well, uhm maybe not Deadstate...:?)

My assessment is exactly not fair just yet - Darkest Dungeon, AoD and Underrail are all unreleased games right now. I haven't beaten Underrail yet, but I've played it as long as I have PoE.

Dead State is playable. I put 27 hours into it. I didn't beat it - but I want to start over; and at the same time I never want to start over. The static position of zombies and world events means replayability is nil. Also, from what I've read, the ending system is terrible anyway. There is next to no challenge because of zombie and enemy human AI. It's a game that's hugely lacking but isn't bad at all, I would still recommend people play it over most modern games that came out in 2014.

Wasteland 2 is the only one that doesn't get a recommend from me. I don't like any of the companion characters and while I'm only 50% through the game I'm just bored to death with it. The mechanics are really dull and nothing in the story is pushing me forward. It's not a bad game I guess, but doesn't get the recommendation from me.

Dragonfall isn't that comparable to PoE -- but between D:OS and PoE I would go with PoE. If PoE had some of its combat mechanics (especially weather/elemental magic reaction system) the game would be perfect.
 

markec

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I like both DoS and PoE but will wait with judgement until I finish PoE. At this moment, while not finished, Underrail for me looks like the best RPG to be released this year and best RPG of the last few years.
 

Goral

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I like both DoS and PoE but will wait with judgement until I finish PoE. At this moment, while not finished, Underrail for me looks like the best RPG to be released this year and best RPG of the last few years.
Have you played Age of Decadence? It's way better than Underrail IMO.
 

markec

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I like both DoS and PoE but will wait with judgement until I finish PoE. At this moment, while not finished, Underrail for me looks like the best RPG to be released this year and best RPG of the last few years.
Have you played Age of Decadence? It's way better than Underrail IMO.

Played it and in my opinion Underrail is a better game.
 

markec

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It's kinda like DOS and PoE - AoD has better writing but mechanics-wise Underrail beats it cold.

Personally I would disagree, while you can say that AoD has more detailed dialogs with its large number of options and c&c I find things like story, setting, factions much more interesting in Underrail.
 

V_K

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TBH I haven't played either beyond the free demos, so I can't really comment on that. It's quite possible UR has vastly improved its writing in the added areas.
 

PhantasmaNL

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Undecided.

In my book turnbased is always better than rtwp (which is always better than rt "action" rpgs).

That said, i played DOS only for the mechanics, fast skipping all text. I really like how it allows players to metagame the systems and world and encourages looking for and exploiting possible loopholes in it. It doesnt take itself or the player serious, as demonstrated in the writing. This basically kills any immersion from the get go. Recent ventures into SR and a revisit of VtMB made me realize that setting, atmosphere and good writing is maybe more important for my gaming enjoyment than i previously thought.

This is what POE does better (sofar, short ways in, on hold till patched).
 

Goral

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markec
I don't want to start another some thing vs something thread so I'll reply to you here and use spoiler tags so that others can ignore it.
I think that AoD is better both mechanics-wise and as far as writing is concerned. Writing is WAY better and there shouldn't even be a hint of doubt here. Dialogues in UR either suck or are mediocre, dialogues (and writing overall) in AoD is either very good or superb. UR is too easy, especially with Oddity system (classic with grinding is easy too, if you're a fighter of course), while AoD combat system is challenging and requires the use of tactics. UR has too many flaws that annoy me like:

1) You can't load a game during combat unless it's your turn. It is annoying especially when you know for sure you will die before even all the guards will have a chance to burst ammo in you. No such problem in AoD.

2) If you want to sell your stuff you have to go from one vendor to another because one trader will buy only very specific things and nothing else. Which makes sense in real life but in a game it's annoying (and to be honest in a post-apocalyptic world I doubt any trader would pass on a chance to buy something he doesn't need at the moment but for a fraction of it's real value). AoD wins again.

3) Running is so slow in here and it's one of the main reasons I don't want to replay the game. Playing Underrail lets you realize how great "teleporting" is in AoD. First location (SGS) is very annoying, especially cave tunnel exit which is slow like a retard. Also, you can't skip the shooting session with Gorsky.

4) There are some idiotic choices, like you can't open your room from the inside unless you have a keycard (or lockpicks).

5) There aren't that many ways to accomplish missions and pickpocketing skill is a must have. AoD gives much more freedom to the player and always gives you more than 2 options. Here there are usually 2 options only where the second one is way more difficult than the first (e.g. retrieving Elwood's key).

6) It has too monotonous locations. Corridors, corridors and some more corridors. That is the main reason it's not as replayable as AoD.

Crafting is good in both games (in AoD you also have Alchemy), UR offers more interactivity so you can disable cameras or actively use sneak (that also goes for your opponents). AoD often resembles a text adventure game rather than cRPG but that shouldn't be a problem for people with imagination. At least I don't have to spend 5 minutes on walking to disable a security system or to sneak into a building and pickpocket someone.

Last but not least UR is Fallout in sewers while AoD is a cRPG unlike any other.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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Step 1: Make the poll when one game has been out for a while and the other is just released.
:roll:
 

Hobo Elf

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I don't see how turn based combat by virtue saved DivOS when nearly every encounter played out exactly the same, regardless of what type of enemy you were fighting against. It was pretty banal going through the same motions over and over again. Doesn't help that the other areas after Cyseal are pretty boring as well.
 

markec

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markec
I don't want to start another some thing vs something thread so I'll reply to you here and use spoiler tags so that others can ignore it.
I think that AoD is better both mechanics-wise and as far as writing is concerned. Writing is WAY better and there shouldn't even be a hint of doubt here. Dialogues in UR either suck or are mediocre, dialogues (and writing overall) in AoD is either very good or superb. UR is too easy, especially with Oddity system (classic with grinding is easy too, if you're a fighter of course), while AoD combat system is challenging and requires the use of tactics. UR has too many flaws that annoy me like:

1) You can't load a game during combat unless it's your turn. It is annoying especially when you know for sure you will die before even all the guards will have a chance to burst ammo in you. No such problem in AoD.

2) If you want to sell your stuff you have to go from one vendor to another because one trader will buy only very specific things and nothing else. Which makes sense in real life but in a game it's annoying (and to be honest in a post-apocalyptic world I doubt any trader would pass on a chance to buy something he doesn't need at the moment but for a fraction of it's real value). AoD wins again.

3) Running is so slow in here and it's one of the main reasons I don't want to replay the game. Playing Underrail lets you realize how great "teleporting" is in AoD. First location (SGS) is very annoying, especially cave tunnel exit which is slow like a retard. Also, you can't skip the shooting session with Gorsky.

4) There are some idiotic choices, like you can't open your room from the inside unless you have a keycard (or lockpicks).

5) There aren't that many ways to accomplish missions and pickpocketing skill is a must have. AoD gives much more freedom to the player and always gives you more than 2 options. Here there are usually 2 options only where the second one is way more difficult than the first (e.g. retrieving Elwood's key).

6) It has too monotonous locations. Corridors, corridors and some more corridors. That is the main reason it's not as replayable as AoD.

Crafting is good in both games (in AoD you also have Alchemy), UR offers more interactivity so you can disable cameras or actively use sneak (that also goes for your opponents). AoD often resembles a text adventure game rather than cRPG but that shouldn't be a problem for people with imagination. At least I don't have to spend 5 minutes on walking to disable a security system or to sneak into a building and pickpocket someone.

Last but not least UR is Fallout in sewers while AoD is a cRPG unlike any other.

I dont think AoD has WAY BETTER writing and I think you are grossly overreacting when describing dialogs in UR. I agree that dialogs are better in AoD but not much better and as I said I find things like setting and factions in UR more interesting. Underrails gameplay is poorly balanced in current state, the combat itself and enemy encounter design are actually good, only some polish on the numbers and UR balance can be great and no worse then AoD. So in my opinion you can patch gameplay problems of UR but no patch can make AoDs setting more interesting then URs.

1. I dont see why this is such a big problem, personally I dont even recall this being a thing, this can be easily fixed just contact developer and ask him nicely.

2. I have no problem with this and this is not something that UR did first, Arcanum had this also and you can take a feat in game that expands item pool for trading with every trader.

3. As someone who played a lot of Vogel games I got used to walking around so it doesnt bother me much, also the world is not that big and you have an ability to fast travel to major locations with trains and barges.

4. What?

5. I dont think any game in existence offers same amount of choices as AoD. UR has decent amount of them, more would be nice, still not everything is in c&c seeing that many of favorite Codex games have very little or no choices.

6. Not this is just nonsense. In UR it is joy to explore the world, yeah there are many corridors and caves but there is also lots of interesting locations to be found. In my opinion design of cities are hands down far better in UR then AoD, they feel more alive and more interesting.
 

V_K

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markec
I don't want to start another some thing vs something thread so I'll reply to you here and use spoiler tags so that others can ignore it.
I think that AoD is better both mechanics-wise and as far as writing is concerned. Writing is WAY better and there shouldn't even be a hint of doubt here. Dialogues in UR either suck or are mediocre, dialogues (and writing overall) in AoD is either very good or superb. UR is too easy, especially with Oddity system (classic with grinding is easy too, if you're a fighter of course), while AoD combat system is challenging and requires the use of tactics. UR has too many flaws that annoy me like:

1) You can't load a game during combat unless it's your turn. It is annoying especially when you know for sure you will die before even all the guards will have a chance to burst ammo in you. No such problem in AoD.

2) If you want to sell your stuff you have to go from one vendor to another because one trader will buy only very specific things and nothing else. Which makes sense in real life but in a game it's annoying (and to be honest in a post-apocalyptic world I doubt any trader would pass on a chance to buy something he doesn't need at the moment but for a fraction of it's real value). AoD wins again.

3) Running is so slow in here and it's one of the main reasons I don't want to replay the game. Playing Underrail lets you realize how great "teleporting" is in AoD. First location (SGS) is very annoying, especially cave tunnel exit which is slow like a retard. Also, you can't skip the shooting session with Gorsky.

4) There are some idiotic choices, like you can't open your room from the inside unless you have a keycard (or lockpicks).

5) There aren't that many ways to accomplish missions and pickpocketing skill is a must have. AoD gives much more freedom to the player and always gives you more than 2 options. Here there are usually 2 options only where the second one is way more difficult than the first (e.g. retrieving Elwood's key).

6) It has too monotonous locations. Corridors, corridors and some more corridors. That is the main reason it's not as replayable as AoD.

Crafting is good in both games (in AoD you also have Alchemy), UR offers more interactivity so you can disable cameras or actively use sneak (that also goes for your opponents). AoD often resembles a text adventure game rather than cRPG but that shouldn't be a problem for people with imagination. At least I don't have to spend 5 minutes on walking to disable a security system or to sneak into a building and pickpocket someone.

Last but not least UR is Fallout in sewers while AoD is a cRPG unlike any other.

I dont think AoD has WAY BETTER writing and I think you are grossly overreacting when describing dialogs in UR. I agree that dialogs are better in AoD but not much better and as I said I find things like setting and factions in UR more interesting. Underrails gameplay is poorly balanced in current state, the combat itself and enemy encounter design are actually good, only some polish on the numbers and UR balance can be great and no worse then AoD. So in my opinion you can patch gameplay problems of UR but no patch can make AoDs setting more interesting then URs.

1. I dont see why this is such a big problem, personally I dont even recall this being a thing, this can be easily fixed just contact developer and ask him nicely.

2. I have no problem with this and this is not something that UR did first, Arcanum had this also and you can take a feat in game that expands item pool for trading with every trader.

3. As someone who played a lot of Vogel games I got used to walking around so it doesnt bother me much, also the world is not that big and you have an ability to fast travel to major locations with trains and barges.

4. What?

5. I dont think any game in existence offers same amount of choices as AoD. UR has decent amount of them, more would be nice, still not everything is in c&c seeing that many of favorite Codex games have very little or no choices.

6. Not this is just nonsense. In UR it is joy to explore the world, yeah there are many corridors and caves but there is also lots of interesting locations to be found. In my opinion design of cities are hands down far better in UR then AoD, they feel more alive and more interesting.
I would add that a huge advantage of UR is that it has actual non-combat mechanics, not just binary skillchecks in dialogs that require metagame knowledge
 

1eyedking

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Both games suck because the fluff, which is the main selling point of any videogame (and the reason why you decide to go through the games' mechanics), is terrible.

Bad writing, bad atmosphere, bad characters, bad make-believe, bad lore, bad visual design, bad music....


Just bad, period.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
When did you play D:OS?

Based on feedback provided by lots of people, I know it becomes a rote timesink regardless of your build.

I trust by June/July they'll have delivered their best shot of changing that.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
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Dec 10, 2007
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Location
Argentina
I don't think that anyone played Counter Strike for the fluff.
I never praised Counter-Strike as a good through-and-through videogame from which you can derive artistic value, I just said its mechanics are incredibly tight and polished, and that 99% of other FPS don't deliver so well in this department.

It's a nice timesink of a game, but it doesn't provide as much satisfaction as staring at RAGE's visual design, for example.

And let's just say we're well past the age of Super Mario and Pacman, and games are a vessel where much more can be delivered...
 

dragonul09

Arcane
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Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,445
Sadly, i had to drop Divinity during the Dark Forest phase.The game is good when it comes to mechanics but sadly, the storyline ,writing ,atmosphere killed my mood almost instantly when i got into the first town.
I played for 35h praying to Allah to get better, instead the game got more tedious by the minute ,more trash mobs ,more silly npcs that i just couldn't force myself to read anything that came out of their mouth ,most of the dialogue was just fillery garbage that barely made any sense and oh lord ,it was a lot of it.

I really think Larian need to change their perspective and try to take a more serious aproach on their next game ,because combat wont save them for long.They have a great universe on their hands ,they have a solid foundation but sadly they just don't have the talent to make a engrossing storyline.

I like Tb a lot but i think this type of combat needs to be backed by a good storyline,great quests and so forth,you need them to force yourself to clear those pesky trash mobs just to know what will happen next.Sadly D:O was a mediocre game.
POE is decent enough ,not that impressive,the writing feels so flamboyant ,it tries to be Planescape but sadly ,it is not.
 
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RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I don't think that anyone played Counter Strike for the fluff.
I never praised Counter-Strike as a good through-and-through videogame from which you can derive artistic value, I just said its mechanics are incredibly tight and polished, and that 99% of other FPS don't deliver so well in this department.

It's a nice timesink of a game, but it doesn't provide as much satisfaction as staring at RAGE's visual design, for example.

And let's just say we're well past the age of Super Mario and Pacman, and games are a vessel where much more can be delivered...

I wasn't talking about what you've praised or not, how much satisfaction does it give or if it can deliver more than Pacman. You've said that main selling point of every video game is fluff, Counter Strike (and many other games like Besiege, city builders, Minectraft) proves that it's not correct since it has almost no fluff and sold extremely well, people also didn't decide to go through the mechanics for fluff. Can't you just admit that your statement was a bit overblown instead of making all these arguments that barely have anything to do with what you've orginally said.
 

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