Diablo 1

[DraQ]

Yes, Hellfire was uninspired, so you have a point there.

Uninspired or not it still added a whole bunch of items, pre- and suffixes, new uniques, a whole new spell circle, higher caps, new classes and stronger Dark Lord himself even if you ignored the Hive and Crypt (and the Crypt was neat, plus the liches were a cool enemy in how they perceived you by the light radius.

Ok, it also changed a bit of mechanics, some arguably for the worse (block lock), but those were relatively minor changes.

On one hand I agree. On the other, referring to Diablo (or SS2 for that matter) as an "RPG experience" never fails to trigger me.

Codex, what do?

Sorry for hurting your feelings, I will handle those matters more sensibly in the future.

You must be new around here.
Joined:
Jan 8, 2015

In this instance, "gaming experience" would be appropriate too, anyways.

True enough.

 

[octavius]

Be set for 10,000 HP Butcher? No thanks!

What? Pretty sure that never happened. I would've definitively noticed if the Butcher had 10,000 HP.

It's possible that was only on the highest difficulty. Watched a YouTube video of some guy who spend several hours just whittling away the HP, while one or two hits from the Butcher would mean starting over again. Looked like the definition of tediousness to me.

 

[octavius]

Just finished the game on Normal difficulty. I can't find any reference to difficulty level in the manual, so I assume it was introduced by the patch. But as always, all documentation on unoffical patches assume you already know what it does, and just list a bunch of changed from previous versions.
Diablo's death animation didn't fire either, nor a victory screen, which I assume has something to do with keeping the character for a new game on higher difficulty.

Diablo himself was quite difficult, but the Hellfire boss was a joke. He only managed to say "What?!? Who dares..." and then he was dead.

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

When you read three tomes Na-Krul is always too easy to kill. Even on Hell I had more problems with the liches than with him.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Just finished the game on Normal difficulty. I can't find any reference to difficulty level in the manual, so I assume it was introduced by the patch. But as always, all documentation on unoffical patches assume you already know what it does, and just list a bunch of changed from previous versions.
Diablo's death animation didn't fire either, nor a victory screen, which I assume has something to do with keeping the character for a new game on higher difficulty.

Diablo himself was quite difficult, but the Hellfire boss was a joke. He only managed to say "What?!? Who dares..." and then he was dead.

If Diablo was difficult you were doing it wrong. Literally any character can murder the shit out of him by spamming holy bolt. The spells costs like nothing and stunlocks him.

 

[octavius]

Just finished the game on Normal difficulty. I can't find any reference to difficulty level in the manual, so I assume it was introduced by the patch. But as always, all documentation on unoffical patches assume you already know what it does, and just list a bunch of changed from previous versions.
Diablo's death animation didn't fire either, nor a victory screen, which I assume has something to do with keeping the character for a new game on higher difficulty.

Diablo himself was quite difficult, but the Hellfire boss was a joke. He only managed to say "What?!? Who dares..." and then he was dead.

If Diablo was difficult you were doing it wrong. Literally any character can murder the shit out of him by spamming holy bolt. The spells costs like nothing and stunlocks him.

I was playing a Fighter. Fighters use their huge motherfucking axe; they don't throw spells like some nerd.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Thing I liked about Diablo was fighters could cast some spells. There seemed to be some crossover between the classes. In Diablo 2, by comparison, they each had their own distinctions, but crossover didn't seem apparent. I'm not taking anything away from the skill tree. Reason I say all this is because when I first started playing Diablo 2, that's the first thing I noticed. It feel restricting. I eventually played Diablo 2 more than I ever played Diablo 1, despite that hiccup.

I did try and play Diablo several months ago in single player as a warrior. Stopped playing because I was getting hit too hard and couldn't find any items to get over the hump. I tried multiplayer but my router somehow prevented me from creating a server or, well, playing with others. Did enjoy the time I spent with ti. Don't regert.

 

[octavius]

If Diablo was difficult you were doing it wrong. Literally any character can murder the shit out of him by spamming holy bolt. The spells costs like nothing and stunlocks him.

Heh, according to the manual Holy Bolt works only on the undead.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I seem to recall something like that too. Can't remember if it was actually undead only or worked on other demons besides Diablo himself. Either way, it definitely does work on him, and since it ignores resistance... yeah. Total rapefest. Which makes sense; wizards in Diablo were incredibly OP, it wasn't even remotely close to balanced.

 

[LeStryfe79]

It's just overkill.

 

[Sykar]

I seem to recall something like that too. Can't remember if it was actually undead only or worked on other demons besides Diablo himself. Either way, it definitely does work on him, and since it ignores resistance... yeah. Total rapefest. Which makes sense; wizards in Diablo were incredibly OP, it wasn't even remotely close to balanced.

Nothing wrong with a ranged character plastering the entire screen in lightning while having over 1k+ effective HP with inbuild 25% damage reduciton through Manashield.

 

[DraQ]

When you read three tomes Na-Krul is always too easy to kill. Even on Hell I had more problems with the liches than with him.

You need to read them in correct order too.

As for the liches, if they don't have strong melee entourage they can be raped, regardless of their numbers, by a single golem.
The liches can't see the golem as it has no light radius.

It might be a good idea to put on as many -LR items as possible on yourself too, just in case, if you don't have a golem or if your golem crumbles to melee rape and can't reach liches.

I seem to recall something like that too. Can't remember if it was actually undead only or worked on other demons besides Diablo himself.

IIRC it worked only on undead AND Diablo himself - which kind of makes sense.

Either way, it definitely does work on him, and since it ignores resistance... yeah. Total rapefest. Which makes sense; wizards in Diablo were incredibly OP, it wasn't even remotely close to balanced.

You don't need to be a wizard to Holy Bolt.

IIRC Hellfire considerably buffed Diablo for that reason.

Nothing wrong with a ranged character plastering the entire screen in lightning while having over 1k+ effective HP with inbuild 25% damage reduciton through Manashield.

This is how you wizard in Diablo, as opposed to being a menial worker.

My fondest memory was still beating a gangbang of two bloodknights and Diablo with a warrior (shield + Griswold's Edge), though.
Ok, tied with cheesing The Chamber of Bone with Sorcerer with firewall.

 

[Sykar]

I do that cheese every time I come to that part. So fun to spam Firewall there watching several dozen skeletons unable to move just getting burned to crisps.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I think my favourite moment was chamber of bone with a sorceror too; only with chain lightning instead of firewall. Nothing says overkill quite like firing dozens of lightning bolts simultaneously. Though I'm guessing they're probably lightning immune on higher difficulties.

 

[DraQ]

I think my favourite moment was chamber of bone with a sorceror too; only with chain lightning instead of firewall. Nothing says overkill quite like firing dozens of lightning bolts simultaneously. Though I'm guessing they're probably lightning immune on higher difficulties.

Chain lightning is shit against horrors and is limited to a cone when fired from doorway.

I take my sperg very seriously, you know.

 

[shihonage]

Diablo1 had a strong consistent atmosphere but I played a fuckton more of Diablo2. Having non-P2P multiplayer ensured the game wasn't filled with maxed-out kiddies, and in general the gameplay had more depth and character build variation, graphics were an amazing improvement considering the same 8-bit palette, the modular 2D character drawing engine was art, thematically things still fit together very well - every class still looked and sounded perfect... Necromancer was awesome...

I found some Necro and Paladin strategies with certain weapons and skills that were situational and made the game feel dynamic...

In order to see just how much Diablo2 got right, look at Diablo3, with vastly removed player agency in all areas, where there's barely any synergy between people, no sense of connection or cooperation, everyone is just their own rockstar, and male mages look like Lucy Liu.

Diablo2 encouraged town downtime and that was as necessary as quiet scenes in an action film... to get ready for the next andrenaline-fueled bout. Diablo3 has no sense of pacing, it was specifically designed so you could stay in the action forever.

They even killed Deckard Cain because he has no functional use in the game anymore...

Ugh.

 

[Sykar]

But there is still his tome for identifying items so he lives on in spirit!

 

[Damned Registrations]

I think my favourite moment was chamber of bone with a sorceror too; only with chain lightning instead of firewall. Nothing says overkill quite like firing dozens of lightning bolts simultaneously. Though I'm guessing they're probably lightning immune on higher difficulties.

Chain lightning is shit against horrors and is limited to a cone when fired from doorway.

I take my sperg very seriously, you know.

The cone is what makes it so strong there though; instead of hitting each guy around you once like it would in the open, you hit each poor bastard like 5-6 times because they're packed so densely all in front of you.

 

[DraQ]

I think my favourite moment was chamber of bone with a sorceror too; only with chain lightning instead of firewall. Nothing says overkill quite like firing dozens of lightning bolts simultaneously. Though I'm guessing they're probably lightning immune on higher difficulties.

Chain lightning is shit against horrors and is limited to a cone when fired from doorway.

I take my sperg very seriously, you know.

The cone is what makes it so strong there though; instead of hitting each guy around you once like it would in the open, you hit each poor bastard like 5-6 times because they're packed so densely all in front of you.

Nah, you just pack the room full of firewalls starting from the row of tiles closest to the door and work your way towards the opposite wall, turning the entire room into massive crematorium.

 

[Hatred]

Damn, I feel a Diablo vs. Diablo 2 battle coming on.

You mean there are some people that actually think Diablo 2 was better ? How the fuck could anyone think that.

 

[Norfleet]

Nothing wrong with a ranged character plastering the entire screen in lightning while having over 1k+ effective HP with inbuild 25% damage reduciton through Manashield.

Let's not forget immunity to stuns of any kind and the ability to OHKO anyone else, generally by accident...gotta admit, though, Friendly Fire made the game more tactical. Never, ever, stand between a mage and his enemies. On Chain Lightning levels, you get fried, on Fireball levels, a fireball will OHKO anyone. Mages were gods. I killed Diablo with my bare hands while wearing a boatload of cursed items.

 

[Sykar]

Never, ever, stand between a mage and his enemies. On Chain Lightning levels, you get fried, on Fireball levels, a fireball will OHKO anyone. Mages were gods. I killed Diablo with my bare hands while wearing a boatload of cursed items.

You learned that the hard way?

 

[octavius]

So what are the relative power levels between the classes?
Sorcerors rule, I've gathered, but where would you place the Fighter, Rogue and Monk on the list?

 

[DraQ]

Let's not forget immunity to stuns of any kind

Didn't that require a 'sploit where you had to get hammered by Black Deaths until you had so little max HP that the game assumed you'd be OHK by practically anything that hit you, but failed to check if you had MS going, so it didn't put you into stun for what it (incorrectly) assumed to be the death blow?

Never, ever, stand between a mage and his enemies.

You learned that the hard way?

Is there any other way to learn that?

So what are the relative power levels between the classes?
Sorcerors rule, I've gathered, but where would you place the Fighter, Rogue and Monk on the list?

At "fun to play".

Rogues are generally seen as a n00b class, though. Very fast with bows.

Fighters are melee tanks, they can easily stunlock most things, and have even better staying power than their HPs and AC would indicate when using shield. Magic mostly for support (like killing a cluster of succubi), although if you get a lot of good +magic items you can learn teleport and melee everything you can see.

Monks are quite well rounded but suffer from diminishing AC returns from heavier armors. Very good and rapid unarmed attacks, great with staves too, can block and attack 3 adjacent tiles in front when wielding staves.
Search as class skill.

There are also two hidden unfinished classes in Hellfire - Bard and Barbarian:

Bard is jack of all trades and can dual wield for massive damage, but can't swing nearly as fast as fighter so melee can be more perilous than with Fighter (stunlock or be stunlocked), so you'll need to alternate between different approaches. Also ID as class skill. Can attack 3 adjacent tiles in front when DW.

Barbarian maxes out at 0 magic, has no mana (you can only cast anything with barb if you have +magic items equipped) and is sort of fighter on steroids, can wield 2h swords and mauls in 1h, murders shit with axes, and, if not wielding a shield, attacks 3 adjacent tiles in front of him. Has some half implemented berserk mechanics as class skill, but also gains resistances with levels, has tons of HP and massive max vitality.

 

[Sykar]

So what are the relative power levels between the classes?
Sorcerors rule, I've gathered, but where would you place the Fighter, Rogue and Monk on the list?

Depends at which level range. Sorcerers do not rule until late game with a good to great mana pool and high levels of CL and FB, also need Teleport, Golem and Stone Curse for triple immune, or if you can sustain it Staff of Apocalypse.

I'd say in fact that Sorcerers are the worst starting class with no Mana Shield, little HP, mediocre mana pool and spell damage entirely dependent on your level and spell level in most cases, which means that you have a small mana pool and low damage.

Rogue is balanaced throughout the game. She starts decent, and is decent throughout the entire game, never struggling with stuff like triple immunes.

Warrior is a bit more complex. He starts better than Sorcerer but worse than Rogue imho. He gets a power spike mid game if he gets a really nice shield and a Bastard Sword with Kings and Vampiric or Haste suffix/affix but falls off again since he really struggles with any kind of succubus AI type of monster, so he too needs at least Teleport and Stone Curse but is limited in it's use due to his really small mana pool.