Baron Dupek
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,870,841
That's some BIG BALLSHoly hell, are you hoarding those skillpoints or what
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Completed Deus Ex: Mankind is quickly divided by Conspiracies and Invisible Wars
- Thread starter RK47
- Start date
Baron Dupek
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,870,841
Congratulation
Baron Dupek
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,870,841
I though you jump directly into Hooman Revolotion.
Will you do also Deus eX: The Fall?
https://playthroughline.com/scripts/deus-ex-invisible-war
SPOILERS but still gave me chuckles here and here, even though I played it years ago...
Will you do also Deus eX: The Fall?
https://playthroughline.com/scripts/deus-ex-invisible-war
SPOILERS but still gave me chuckles here and here, even though I played it years ago...
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Omikron shits all over it.
+Ambitious. Rewards player intelligence and rarely locks players in a cutscene. There's no ambition in the sequel. I can't feel any of it, it was dripping with 'fit it on a console' attitude.
+Great Hub & Level design. It's hard to find any game with that kind of level design even in 2016. They took all that out in the sequel.
+Great music.
- Hybrid RPG System that seems half-assed, they determine viability of weapon usage, resource consumption skills (tools, picks, environment, medikit), movement (swimming lol), and the ever imbalanced Hacking. They took all that out in the sequel cause they can't be arsed to design a better one.
- Hilarious VA. I guess it fits the corny plot.
- Augments are almost a no-brainer pick. Some are just outright better than the rest. A quiet running vs jump/speed boost. No way in hell the former is even viable. Could've been refined in sequel, but it didn't happen.
- Too ambitious, attempts to resolve a single Man vs Evil Global Organization within one game. By the time I got past Paris, there was barely anything new for me to try to do.
- An ending that implies great stuff happens but doesn't show anything that satisfies one's curiosities. Would it kill to have ending slides to tell me what happen in each city?
Deus Ex is probably the least underrated / overrated pick for a Game of All Time.
The flaws are apparent, but anyone saying this game has nothing to offer is probably ignorant or blind.
Even Bethesda took cues from the game. As much as I made fun of them doing that, it really shows. Hacking, picking, and the fallible 'stealth alert' AI is there in Fallout 3 onwards, in a slightly warped form of mini game. Beth is worse at writing, but we all know that already.
In 2007 at Warren Spector's University of Texas master class on game design, Project Director Harvey Smith felt the team did not do a good job designing Invisible War. stating the following;[33]
"This was a very difficult game for me... ...I feel like we fucked up the technology management of it, we had bad team chemistry, we wrote the wrong renderer, we wrote the wrong kind of AI, and then we shipped too early.
"And then the story was even bad... we moved the story into the future. We didn't understand it at the time but this undermined much of what made Deus Ex great: the familiarity, the groundedness... you're going through an alley, to jump up on a dumpster, to get to a fire escape, to break someone's apartment, and we've all seen that, so it's very powerful, it's very grounded. We moved [Invisible War] further into the future, and it started to feel like the Jetsons or some type of space thing...
"I feel we made an 85% rated RPG that was not a worthy sequel of the original game in terms of how interesting the original game was...
"It was also my first console game, and it is a different beast to work on a console game. You have to think about the interface and the memory (64MB) differently and everything else."
— Harvey Smith (2007)
They then discussed some of the ways that Invisible War was specifically different from the original. From the outset Invisible War was intended to fix some of the problems seen in the original. Harvey felt that they spent too much time listening to hardcore players that did not like the original game, trying to change the sequel to meet their expectations. By doing this, they reduced the appeal of the game for the majority of players, trying to cater to the extreme views of this small minority.
"The lesson I've learned... is that you really need to talk to the players you are aiming at... It's not selling out to cater to an audience...
"You will have some hardcore friend who will tell you the most extreme version of what you're supposed to do, and that would be cool. And you will lose 90% of the audience if you do that... If you want to make an indie game, that's fine, sit in a closet and make an indie game and release it for four guys on the Internet... I highly recommend that if that is what drives you..
"If on the other hand you're taking $20 million of someone's money, and on the surface you are aiming for an XBox Live crowd, then going to some crazy extreme is probably not a good idea. Unless it's an extreme that will take your audience to some new interesting place. Then if you're going to do that, you're going to spend 80% of the project communicating with the user about this new thing that's interesting..
"So what I think we did with Deus Ex, is that we listened to our super hardcore friends who said Here's how I would fix Deus Ex. .. we had some good friends who told us how Deus Ex was just a giant disaster and here's what they would change. I love those guys, and we really felt sensitive about that.. We're not meeting the demands! or We're not meeting the standards of our very intelligent designer friends. So ashamed! Let's fix all that in the sequel. And we weren't listening to the players of the original game who liked what we had done.
"In trying to fix some of those.. redundant things, like skills and augmentations that were overlapping.. we eliminated that complexity, and boiled it down to one system that was easier.. on the console interface, easier to learn, but it didn't allow for some combinations, that even if they weren't mechanically interesting, they built a fantasy in the player's head.
"For example, [as a game designer] I could let you take the swimming skill, or an augmentation like aqualung, or I could give you a biomod for the sequel called Swimmer, and it has both built into it. They're mechanically the same... but it wasn't the same to the user.. who wanted the fantasy of saying 'I am going to be the aquatic guy, so I'm going to take up these slots [in skills] and these slots [in augmentations] to be the aquatic guy in combination.' Even though mechanically it's the same, in the fantasy it's different."
— Harvey Smith (2007)
"This was a very difficult game for me... ...I feel like we fucked up the technology management of it, we had bad team chemistry, we wrote the wrong renderer, we wrote the wrong kind of AI, and then we shipped too early.
"And then the story was even bad... we moved the story into the future. We didn't understand it at the time but this undermined much of what made Deus Ex great: the familiarity, the groundedness... you're going through an alley, to jump up on a dumpster, to get to a fire escape, to break someone's apartment, and we've all seen that, so it's very powerful, it's very grounded. We moved [Invisible War] further into the future, and it started to feel like the Jetsons or some type of space thing...
"I feel we made an 85% rated RPG that was not a worthy sequel of the original game in terms of how interesting the original game was...
"It was also my first console game, and it is a different beast to work on a console game. You have to think about the interface and the memory (64MB) differently and everything else."
— Harvey Smith (2007)
They then discussed some of the ways that Invisible War was specifically different from the original. From the outset Invisible War was intended to fix some of the problems seen in the original. Harvey felt that they spent too much time listening to hardcore players that did not like the original game, trying to change the sequel to meet their expectations. By doing this, they reduced the appeal of the game for the majority of players, trying to cater to the extreme views of this small minority.
"The lesson I've learned... is that you really need to talk to the players you are aiming at... It's not selling out to cater to an audience...
"You will have some hardcore friend who will tell you the most extreme version of what you're supposed to do, and that would be cool. And you will lose 90% of the audience if you do that... If you want to make an indie game, that's fine, sit in a closet and make an indie game and release it for four guys on the Internet... I highly recommend that if that is what drives you..
"If on the other hand you're taking $20 million of someone's money, and on the surface you are aiming for an XBox Live crowd, then going to some crazy extreme is probably not a good idea. Unless it's an extreme that will take your audience to some new interesting place. Then if you're going to do that, you're going to spend 80% of the project communicating with the user about this new thing that's interesting..
"So what I think we did with Deus Ex, is that we listened to our super hardcore friends who said Here's how I would fix Deus Ex. .. we had some good friends who told us how Deus Ex was just a giant disaster and here's what they would change. I love those guys, and we really felt sensitive about that.. We're not meeting the demands! or We're not meeting the standards of our very intelligent designer friends. So ashamed! Let's fix all that in the sequel. And we weren't listening to the players of the original game who liked what we had done.
"In trying to fix some of those.. redundant things, like skills and augmentations that were overlapping.. we eliminated that complexity, and boiled it down to one system that was easier.. on the console interface, easier to learn, but it didn't allow for some combinations, that even if they weren't mechanically interesting, they built a fantasy in the player's head.
"For example, [as a game designer] I could let you take the swimming skill, or an augmentation like aqualung, or I could give you a biomod for the sequel called Swimmer, and it has both built into it. They're mechanically the same... but it wasn't the same to the user.. who wanted the fantasy of saying 'I am going to be the aquatic guy, so I'm going to take up these slots [in skills] and these slots [in augmentations] to be the aquatic guy in combination.' Even though mechanically it's the same, in the fantasy it's different."
— Harvey Smith (2007)
Baron Dupek
Arcane
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,870,841
Vent crate - keycode required.
In most games crowbar do the job.
Did I mention that WTO Donna Morgan chick looks hot despite average amount of polygons? Almost as good as Stilleto from Anachronox...
Why these kids sounds like adults?
In most games crowbar do the job.
Did I mention that WTO Donna Morgan chick looks hot despite average amount of polygons? Almost as good as Stilleto from Anachronox...
Why these kids sounds like adults?
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The vent is obviously one solution and one they can't let the player destroy to simply crawl in and trigger the eavesdropping.
The other is probably opening the Templar safe behind the counter? I'm not sure really.
Super Intelligent Private Schools lah.
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