Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Pre-Release Thread

[Infinitron]

But what if I like pulp and modern times/art/media bore me? In that case, I may not look that favourably on such an "update".

Sure, that's fine. I might even agree with you to some extent, but overall I appreciate both styles.

Personally, I think DX > DX:HR, mainly for reasons of level design + overall mechanical flexibility - JC Denton just gets to go to cooler places and do cooler stuff. I'm hoping DX: MD picks up some of the slack here, but I'm not expecting any miracles.

 

[Ninjerk]

My beef with Canadian design studios -- and granted, I'm only including Bioware and Eidos Montreal in this equation -- is that they seem unable to talk about politics, or inject political sensibility into their games, without being hamfisted, preachy idiots. Whenever I play a game made by these studios I feel like I'm being lectured by some smuggo Canadian liberal.

It was especially bad because DX:HR was apparently made by Canadians who don't understand the US, or specific issues like racism in the US. For example, the idea that in the future, we would have white guys and black guys working together in the same gang (lol) when the primary demarcation for every gang in this country is racial/ethnic. It is just dumb, it shows a complete lack of understanding of contemporary American life. Or the idea that in the future, SWAT cops would actually chastise a fellow cop for killing gangbangers, as some of them will do when the mission in the factory is over, is just hilariously tone-deaf to what is actually going on this country.

I almost forgot how blackface the crackhead is in Detroit

 

[Decado]

It's definitely a writing issue, imo. Who are these people, and why am I fighting them? Why are they fighting me? Why does any of this matter, and who gives a shit? The motivations of DX1's protagonists may have been simplistic or what have you, but they were there.

Bosses in HR are simply elite soldiers that are tougher than others. I don't see why they necessary need to be plot critical. In fact, it makes much less sense, because ''real bosses'' don't engage in physical fistfights or shootouts.

This makes no goddamn sense. The bosses are distinct characters with voice acting, unique looks, etc. They are clearly intended to be important, but the problem is that the writing does not make them important. They are just hard-to-kill bad guys dropped in to the game, with no real explanations as to what they are doing. They're just there. It is a clearly a hole in the writing.

I just have to disagree here, shooting was the same no matter the weapon -- kill guy, take cover, pop out, kill another guy, etc. The sniper rifle let you do it from farther away, but that's it. Also, the revolver was OP'd as fuck, especially with the explosive rounds. Almost as instacheesable ass the Typhoon.

In that case it was even more sameish in DX, not to mention even more easy. Although in reality, it weapons aren't that similar in neither game. Not best examples of good gunplay by no means, but had distinctive uses according to the situation. Oh, and didn't forget that DX was piss easy? Why do you repeat this critique against HR, while hush it up in DX's case?

Nobody "hushed up" anything. DX:HR was made to be easy -- easy combat, no difficult decisions to be made, no heavy lifting to tease out the philosophical underpinnings of the game. Combat in DX1 was reasonably difficult the first time through, but it had the flaws inherent in the Unreal engine. Put DX1 one on the hardest difficulty, then DX:HR on the hardest difficulty, and compare them. Then try to make this argument.

As for plot, your preference for pulpy plot is just that, preference. Just like some people prefer 80s action movies against action movies from different decades. That shouldn't be brought up at all.

I will bring up what ever the fuck I want.

 

[tuluse]

Neither game is difficult.

DX1 is probably one of the easiest games of it's era.

 

[CyberP]

Combat in DX1 was reasonably difficult the first time through, but it had the flaws inherent in the Unreal engine.

No they weren't. They were primarily of design. I've fixed the majority of the AI problems, and more is on the way.

 

[Decado]

Neither game is difficult.

This should just be the default answer to any argument about difficulty on the Codex.

RPG Codex: That Game Isn't Difficult

 

[tuluse]

This should just be the default answer to any argument about difficulty on the Codex.

RPG Codex: That Game Isn't Difficult

DX1 is really easy though. Doom, Unreal, Quake, SS2, Thief 1 (I haven't actually played 2) all have real challenge compared to it.

I'm pretty sure the only times I died in DX1 were from ambushes and mines. Now, yeah HR doesn't do this to you, but that's not really "fair" deaths anyways.

 

[Infinitron]

I've never played DX on anything but Realistic. Is Realistic harder than Hard in every aspect, or is it a different thing altogether?

What I remember is that explosions in DX could be very dangerous - flying shrapnel could chop your legs clean off from a rather large distance. It was pretty cool.

 

[CyberP]

Is Realistic harder than Hard in every aspect

Yes. And it is just greater damage values for bullet damage. Doesn't directly affect stealth except survival once spotted.

DX1 is really easy though. Doom, Unreal, Quake, SS2, Thief 1 (I haven't actually played 2) all have real challenge compared to it.

The game starts off reasonably hard, but gets progressively easier. It has a steep learning curve too (at least in comparison to most games). It takes a while to get to grips with the accuracy system, for example.

 

[Ninjerk]

I've never played DX on anything but Realistic. Is Realistic harder than Hard in every aspect, or is it a different thing altogether?

What I remember is that explosions in DX could be very dangerous - flying shrapnel could chop your legs clean off from a rather large distance. It was pretty cool.

I believe realistic is the only mode in vanilla DX where you can get 1-shotted. The snipers in Paris are pretty brutal on Realistic IIRC

 

[T. Reich]

It's definitely a writing issue, imo. Who are these people, and why am I fighting them? Why are they fighting me? Why does any of this matter, and who gives a shit? The motivations of DX1's protagonists may have been simplistic or what have you, but they were there.

Bosses in HR are simply elite soldiers that are tougher than others. I don't see why they necessary need to be plot critical. In fact, it makes much less sense, because ''real bosses'' don't engage in physical fistfights or shootouts.

This makes no goddamn sense. The bosses are distinct characters with voice acting, unique looks, etc. They are clearly intended to be important, but the problem is that the writing does not make them important. They are just hard-to-kill bad guys dropped in to the game, with no real explanations as to what they are doing. They're just there. It is a clearly a hole in the writing.

It makes total sense. The Tyrants are the elite black ops operatives of the Illuminati, but they're still just that - operatives. They are given orders and they go into the field to execute them. They don't make the big decisions.
They are important to the plot, though, but their importance is only to Jensen himself. Obviously, he'll do anything and go anywhere just to get them. For him, their faces are of those who ruined his life, mangled his body and stole his waifu.

But for them, it was tuesday.

 

[tuluse]

You guys are missing the point. The bosses don't have any connection to Jensen either. They're just random people who have super powers that you fight.

This is hardly the worst crime against game writing, but it's obviously not well done either.

 

[Decado]

You cannot just drop bad guys who get their own set-pieces into the mix with no explanation other than "They're the bad guys!" and expect it to make sense. At the very least, you cannot call it good writing.

Also please enlighten me, is the stuff about the Tyrants in the actual game? I remember any of that.

 

[Gnidrologist]

This makes no goddamn sense. The bosses are distinct characters with voice acting, unique looks, etc. They are clearly intended to be important, but the problem is that the writing does not make them important. They are just hard-to-kill bad guys dropped in to the game, with no real explanations as to what they are doing. They're just there. It is a clearly a hole in the writing.

They are mercs, who do bidding of their employers. Why can't they can have distincitive characters and voices? Did you complain about Jack Busey character in ''Under Siege'' just because he wasn't teh deeyup? This is especially silly given your love for pulpy 80s style of action. Top nemesis of protag is usually hired merc with distinctive look/voice/behavior, not deeply developed, complex character. Their employer are usually the ones, who might have more distinctive agenda than simply I KILL U!

Nobody "hushed up" anything. DX:HR was made to be easy

DX was also made to be easy. ololool

I will bring up what ever the fuck I want.

Yes, you can bring up all the irrelevant points disguising them as indicators of quality, you want. And please, do. It makes my work easy.

 

[pippin]

The jew guy, who was also the boss, seems to be the only important one. The mute gal had a military rank of some sort according to in game text.
She also had a fling with the guy from The Fall. I think that game was supposed to give more background about the bosses but you know what happened.

 

[CyberP]

We see the Tyrants at the beginning of the game, and are then referred to a number of times in your search for Megan. It is the tyrants (and who they work for) that you are specifically looking for to get to Megan, even.

They were handled terribly, but they don't need deep development to be acceptable either.

 

[Decado]

I've never played DX on anything but Realistic. Is Realistic harder than Hard in every aspect, or is it a different thing altogether?

What I remember is that explosions in DX could be very dangerous - flying shrapnel could chop your legs clean off from a rather large distance. It was pretty cool.

I believe realistic is the only mode in vanilla DX where you can get 1-shotted. The snipers in Paris are pretty brutal on Realistic IIRC

Also, fighting the MIB's as a melee character and surviving is almost fucking impossible on Realistic unless you have the right upgrades. Even then it is painful.

 

[Decado]

This makes no goddamn sense. The bosses are distinct characters with voice acting, unique looks, etc. They are clearly intended to be important, but the problem is that the writing does not make them important. They are just hard-to-kill bad guys dropped in to the game, with no real explanations as to what they are doing. They're just there. It is a clearly a hole in the writing.

They are mercs, who do bidding of their employers. Why can't they can have distincitive characters and voices? Did you complain about Jack Busey character in ''Under Siege'' just because he wasn't teh deeyup? This is especially silly given your love for pulpy 80s style of action. Top nemesis of protag is usually hired merc with distinctive look/voice/behavior, not deeply developed, complex character. Their employer are usually the ones, who might have more distinctive agenda than simply I KILL U!

Nobody "hushed up" anything. DX:HR was made to be easy

DX was also made to be easy. ololool

I will bring up what ever the fuck I want.

Yes, you can bring up all the irrelevant points disguising them as indicators of quality, you want. And please, do. It makes my work easy.

I guess you don't know what pulp fiction is. It has nothing to do with 80's action movies, jesus h christ.

 

[Infinitron]

The jew guy, who was also the boss, seems to be the only important one. The mute gal had a military rank of some sort according to in game text.
She also had a fling with the guy from The Fall. I think that game was supposed to give more background about the bosses but you know what happened.

You interact with the Tyrants a bit in DX: The Fall, yeah.

Namir, the Israeli, is a tortured-seeming man who considers himself to be "good on the inside". He has a wife and children. The protagonist Ben Saxon calls him out as a deluded hypocrite. Fedorova, the mute Russian chick, is a loner who enjoys reading books in her bunk. Barrett, the huge angry redneck, is well, a huge angry redneck.

It's true that they're not important characters as such, but they do receive some flavor that makes them a bit interesting. Actually, this is one area where DX:HR is pretty oldschool. It's like the bad guys in Commando. They're "mooks", yeah, but you can see that a guy like Sully is kind of a character.

The game does compensate by having allies that are more integrated than DX's, though.

 

[tuluse]

Using that as an example though, Arnold knew Sully from before the movie starts.

If Jensen had some cool lines about liking/hating/being indifferent towards the Tyrants back when there were doing X together, it would have made a big difference.

Of course Jensen isn't allowed to have cool lines.

 

[Decado]

Using that as an example though, Arnold knew Sully from before the movie starts.

If Jensen had some cool lines about liking/hating/being indifferent towards the Tyrants back when there were doing X together, it would have made a big difference.

Exactly. It doesn't tale much to establish the credibility of the character in the story.

Of course Jensen isn't allowed to have cool lines.

I never asked for this.

 

[Infinitron]

Using that as an example though, Arnold knew Sully from before the movie starts.

Nah, he only knew Bennett. The arch-mook who seemed like he wanted to have sex with him.

 

[CyberP]

I re-watched Commando just the other day. Can anyone tell me why the air hostess just decides to continue helping Arnie beyond his initial kidnapping of her, even going as far as firing a fucking rocket launcher at police? It isn't even addressed at all, she just seemingly decides to follow Arnie around on his murder spree despite trashing her car and kidnapping her.

You interact with the Tyrants a bit in DX: The Fall, yeah.

Namir, the Israeli, is a tortured-seeming man who considers himself to be "good on the inside". He has a wife and daughter. The protagonist Ben Saxon calls him out as a deluded hypocrite. Fedorova, the mute Russian chick, is a loner who enjoys reading books in her bunk. Barrett, the huge angry redneck, is well, a huge angry redneck.

The game does compensate by having allies that are more integrated than DX's, though.

Infinitron confirmed for new doritos pope.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I guess you don't know what pulp fiction is. It has nothing to do with 80's action movies, jesus h christ.

DX was very 80's action movie-ish. Even the music. Plus it was pulpy.

 

[Trodat]

I re-watched Commando just the other day. Can anyone tell me why the air hostess just decides to continue helping Arnie beyond his initial kidnapping of her, even going as far as firing a fucking rocket launcher at police? It isn't even addressed at all, she just seemingly decides to follow Arnie around on his murder spree despite trashing her car and kidnapping her.

Stockholm syndrome brah.