Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Pre-Release Thread

[Dreaad]

No. DX:HR obviously had popamole crap and bad design in it, the reasonable people (me) didn't claim the opposite. But the lot of you (dumb fucks) seem to think that DX:HR was nothing but popamole and decline. And when the reasonable people prove you wrong by giving you the hard proof, you ignore that and then resort to cheap insults and more insane drivel.

Inane drivel would have sounded better but I digress.

I never said all of HR is entirely popamole crap, it has solid level design which is miles ahead of most games released today, maybe a few too many man sized vents but that's hardly a crime. It has decent weapon selection, a grid inventory you can upgrade for size. Intresting conversation mechanics which really should have been used more often (although the casie aug should not exist). It was very visually pretty. Had really strong atmosphere, different from the original and I'm not sure a renaissance was the right choice, especially since it all collapses 10 years later but whatever, it works. The sneaking mechanics are basically the same as the original so....

Aside from that, it's worse in every aspect (due to popamole handholding). To answer some of your complaints about my "insane drivel".

1.) There's a difference between a stationary object that heals you, not available in every mission, not available in situations when you are under pressure (being shot at); as opposed to unlimited health and energy that re-charges in 10 seconds, that you can instantly access in perfect safety by climbing into any of the 20 vents available at your location.

2.) Yes DX had limited hacking because it took energy which was a finite resource, you also had to find limited lockpicks and sensor jamming thingies so there was no way you could get into everything in every mission. Compare this to the LITERAL unlimited hacking of HR and the ridiculous 3 strikes or you're out hand holding system, made specificly so that it's impossible to fail.

3.) Yeah comparing 2 augmentations that you couldn't even get until half through the game let alone upgrade all the way to overpowered at level 3; as opposed to the 2 praxis point upgrade that you can get in the first hub that makes every single encounter in the game non threatening (aside from the bosses). Yes it had limited ammo, still more than enough ammo easily obtainable to kill 10 + people per location.

AI.... yeah sure you win this round, a game released over a decade ago has AI exploits as bad as HR, congratulations. To be honest I felt more threatened by the AI in DX because at least it runs at you aggressively around corners and attacks (sometimes the whole zone would aggro on you), in HR they get confused and wander around or repeatedly shout "COVER ME" while standing behind a box not moving.

 

[ArchAngel]

Also, why so edgy? The bro made a valid point while your arguments consists of shit and insults.

And for fuck...how is "whoever plays DX1 as a shooter is obviously retarded" with no elaboration given a fucking valid point, bro.
Are you all this retarded?

This is the codex. This is what this place stands for.

I tried to play it as a shooter. But I played it on a crappy laptop with a crappy mouse so I died too much so I switched to playing it as a stealth game :D

 

[Infinitron]

2.) Yes DX had limited hacking because it took energy which was a finite resource

wat

 

[Dreaad]

2.) Yes DX had limited hacking because it took energy which was a finite resource

wat

Oh hey you're right! Hehe must be from a mod I applied at some point or other.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Are we seriously arguing that HR didn't have popamole crap in it?

No, we're saying that DX was incredibly easy game in an old-school popamole way.

And what does this shit actually mean?

Except that in DX you have limited HP and energy. In HR both are unlimited. HR also has unlimited hacking and lock opening and unlimited money.

It's the fucking same thing in DX. Don't say you ever rann out of multitools, batteries or candy bars, because i always had to leave some behind due to inventory limitations. And i hacked and unlocked EVERYTHING.

 

[T. Reich]

1.) There's a difference between a stationary object that heals you, not available in every mission, not available in situations when you are under pressure (being shot at); as opposed to unlimited health and energy that re-charges in 10 seconds, that you can instantly access in perfect safety by climbing into any of the 20 vents available at your location.

Regen aura aug means you have instant access to strong and very efficient (ene-to-hp) healing. Judicious use of augmentations and avoidance of playing rambo-style means you're never really short of energy in DX1. Plus, energy cells are pretty plentiful (so are energy bars in DX:HR, but it's actually balanced by the fact that they take up inventory space, whereas in DX1 they don't, and yet you can carry up to 30(?) of them).
Sure, DX:HR has auto health regen as well as energy regen, EXCEPT:
* HP regen is fairly slow and only restores hp up to a certain limit, which is extremely quickly diminished if you get shot at.
* DX1, unlike DX:HR has limb damage system, meaning you can absorb much more damage to yourself as long as it's not all to the torso/head. Limb damage is basically like extra "hp".
* energy regen is excruciatingly slow and only restores one energy bar. Relying on only the natural regen slows down the pacing of a game to a crawl, and it means that you can't use some of the stronger (read: more energy-consuming) augmentations at all. therefore, the DX:HR hp/energy management system still presents you with a resource-management dilemma: do you expend limited resources (energy bars and painkillers), or do you spend extra time (a limited resource) to wait for it to regen? You might not have such time, or you might not want to wait because it breaks the flow of the game.

Actually, a lot of people who are quick to blame the regen-over-time resource systems ignore the fact that such systems still consume the limited resource that is player's time. Then again, it's perfectly understandable, because a lot of people are dumb and have little idea about actual IRL resource management.
Even more interestingly, in-game time can also be a resource in such games. Consider the not-infrequent situations in games, where you have to act to a number of threats quickly on limited resources. DX:HR is no exception. for example, if you're down to 1 energy bar and have 2 separate guards you want to stealthily take down, but these guards will notice another's body in a couple of seconds, it means that you either consume the energy bar to have enough energy to perform 2 takedowns, or you take one guard down and then have to deal with the other guard in a different way, because your energy will not regen in such a small time frame.

2.) Yes DX had limited hacking because it took energy which was a finite resource, you also had to find limited lockpicks and sensor jamming thingies so there was no way you could get into everything in every mission. Compare this to the LITERAL unlimited hacking of HR and the ridiculous 3 strikes or you're out hand holding system, made specificly so that it's impossible to fail.

The "limited" hacking mistake of yours has already been addressed. The "limited" lockpicks and multitools statement is also false to some extent. Sure, if you're untrained in electronics and lockpicking, you'll always be short on those. BUT, if you're an actually sensible person, you will invest in trained level in both (cheap), which multiplies their effectiveness by a factor of 2.5x. That small skill point investment guarantees that you will never run out of either unless you play dumb (open the locked doors that have easily-found nanokeys, use multitools on keypads with easily-found passwords, etc). AND you get to open every door.

As with previous point, hacking system in DX:HR operates on a principle of time vs items resource management. You either spend a lot of time hacking the hard systems over and over again, or you help yourself with very limited hack-tools. More so if you try to get all the bonus nodes in the hacking mini-game. Failure is pretty harsh actually, because failing a hack usually means alarm and failed stealth. But then again, I have no doubt all of us are dirty savescummer scumbags and will reload in such case, instead of, you know, sucking up the failure and rolling with it.

3.) Yeah comparing 2 augmentations that you couldn't even get until half through the game let alone upgrade all the way to overpowered at level 3; as opposed to the 2 praxis point upgrade that you can get in the first hub that makes every single encounter in the game non threatening (aside from the bosses). Yes it had limited ammo, still more than enough ammo easily obtainable to kill 10 + people per location..

You said it yourself - limited (and expensive) ammo.
Also, 2 praxis point investment in the first game's hub is pretty expensive actually, locking you out of other very useful augs until later.
Also, the "1 button wonder" requires you to:
a) abandon stealthy gameplay, guaranteeing exposure and alarmed enemies
b) actually get out of cover and run towards the enemies who are happy to shoot at you, before you can press the "awesome" button. The DX1 magic combo actually prefers the "run at enemy" approach since it's all about negating the incoming damage, rather than dishing it out.
c) actually find yourself in situation where using it is preferrable to simply shooting/taking down the enemies. Ingame situations where there are more than 2 closely-grouped enemies not behind covers are pretty rare. The DX1 magic combo is universally useful (except rockets, but there's a 3rd magic aug for that, or plasma, but plasma enemies are super-rare in DX1).

AI.... yeah sure you win this round, a game released over a decade ago has AI exploits as bad as HR, congratulations. To be honest I felt more threatened by the AI in DX because at least it runs at you aggressively around corners and attacks (sometimes the whole zone would aggro on you), in HR they get confused and wander around or repeatedly shout "COVER ME" while standing behind a box not moving.

> Implying that improvements to the games' IA for the last 10-15 years whould've been corresponding to the improvements in the games' graphics.
Which is a dirty rotten lie.

>runs at you aggressively around corners and attacks
IF they can see you.

> in HR they get confused and wander around or repeatedly shout "COVER ME" while standing behind a box not moving.
IF they can't see you.

 

[CyberP]

2.) Yes DX had limited hacking because it took energy which was a finite resource

wat

Oh hey you're right!

You're not completely wrong. In HR hacking also substituted lockpicks and multitools, so you had unlimited hacking of things that were limited by resources in DX1, most notably doors.

Edit: You said that

As with previous point, hacking system in DX:HR operates on a principle of time vs items resource management. You either spend a lot of time hacking the hard systems over and over again, or you help yourself with very limited hack-tools

Requires the Augmented Edition DLC™ from gamestop,

or do you spend extra time (a limited resource) to wait for it to regen? You might not have such time, or you might not want to wait because it breaks the flow of the game.

Time shouldn't be considered a finite resource within this context. The game is only 15 hours or so long on average with much regeneration happening in that time.

You're right that there was plenty lockpicks, multitools, biocells and such in DX1, too many. However, they were still a finite resource which resulted in meaningful choices in how to tackle a level and build your character. In HR I can spam cloak over and over indefinitely, and hack anything in sight (although it gets old real fast on replays that I end up purchasing grenades just to blow doors up rather than hack them).

Everything HR did just popamolifies the systems rather than fixing DX1's flaws, and you defend that? This is how it should have been done.

Broken down, there's very little about HR's systems that is an improvement on DX1, more a devolution: energy system, regen, takedowns, xp system, aug system, general resource management (except ammo, which is better in HR), hacking being a catch-all aug, the fucking radar and cover system and so on.

The only aspect of HR's systems I consider to be genuine incline over DX's and actually deepens anything (shock! horror!) is the inventory system, where ammo took space, weapon icons changed based on applied mods, items could be rotated, and positions on the grid could be exchanged if they had corresponding size....but all of this is stuff taken from the Canard's favorite game of all time (Resident Evil 4), so even that isn't innovation (just poking fun, there's really nothing wrong with taking ideas from other games, that's how it has always been).

 

[Decado]

DX:HR was a decent shooter with broken stealth mechanics. It was made to be incredibly easy, with a ridiculously over-wrought story full of idiotic political blathering. It had more fucking vents and ducts than DX1, and everything was handed to you. The level design was decent, but with no significant penalties and/or differences between navigating them, what's the point?

The biggest letdown for DX:HR was the story. One of the best parts of DX1 was finding out that the NSF goons you've been mowing down for the first quarter of the game are actually the good guys, that you're the government tool who has been sent in to clean out the annoying idealists. It is such a great twist, and I gurantee you that most people who played the game more than once treated the NSF differently after their first play through. Paul's admonitions that you're a cop, that you shouldn't just go around murdering people, have real weight to them because he's in on it, he knows what the NSF is doing and he's on their side. The game even lets you choose -- your brother, or your job?

DX:HR doesn't even come close to approaching this level of depth or characterization. The bosses were plunked in from out of nowhere, and the game is filled with mooks that have no relation to the story beyond "They're the bad guy's soldiers," or "They're a private security firm." In DX1, the reason you refrain from killing NSF guys is because you genuinely feel bad after realizing you've been a shithead this whole time. In DX:HR, you refrain from killing people because the game preaches to you that killing is wrong, in that uniquely annoying Canadian way of finger-wagging. And then it confusedly gives you no options but to kill the bosses (?!). If I'm being really pretentious, I'd say the game is a great analogy for the difference between American and Canadian political/philosophical aesthetics. American designers want you to do the wrong thing first, then use the emotional turmoil to teach you a lesson; in other words, you should be free to be a prick, until it hits you that you're actually being a prick. The French-Canadian way of doing business is to tell you what's right and what's wrong (you shouldn't kill the gangbangers, but you must kill these three flavorless bossgoons) and give you the illusion of choice between various options, all the while nagging you to fucking death with poorly disguised political sloganeering. They couldn't get out of their own fucking way to make the game.

Aside from all of this, DX:HR has none of the charm of DX, none of the witty cheesiness that is so believable in a grimy cyberpunk world. Sure, combat in DX1 was kind of a mess, but at least you had choices. DX:HR gives you guns and quicktime, and that's it. So really, they just give you guns. The rest is all positioning and hitting the "Q" key at the right time, which is just supremely lazy. Oh, and your "ammo" for melee attacks ends up being candy bars. Great fucking work, guys. Top notch, game of the year.

I was really impressed with the game when it came out, and gave it a positive review on my blog years ago. But time has not been kind to it, especially when I can fire up my old copy of DX1 and be transported back to the ruined Statue of Liberty and a supercool dude with nanites coursing through his body, taking shit from no one. What does DX:HR offer as an alternative, but a whiny, gravelly voiced and soulless ex-Cop who wears goofy looking coats?

 

[agris]

I need to replay DX1.

 

[CyberP]

I was really impressed with the game when it came out, and gave it a positive review on my blog years ago. But time has not been kind to it...

No, you just saw sense.

I was so crushingly disappointed when the end credits rolled. It was a good-ish game, but again, a product of its time and its mole-popper developers.
It was probably what pushed me to do it myself. Remind the world how it should be done and bring incline where nobody would (with respect to the Immersive Sim).

 

[Infinitron]

Decado As a punishment for your overly positive review of PoE, I've decided you will not review DX: MD for the Codex

Seriously though, you seem kind of obsessed with pointing out the notion of "limp-wristed Canadian game developers".

I do not see anything that "Canadian" about DX:HR. What I do see is a game that was designed according to the spirit of the age.

If you look at middle brow media (as opposed to low brow Call of Duty dudebro stuff) there's been a trend towards a certain form of "faux-realistic subtle grittiness" over the years. And video games from the early 2000s like Deus Ex aren't at the edge of that continuum - they're right in the middle of it.

So, Baldur's Gate was pulpier than Pillars of Eternity, but the Gold Box games were pulpier than Baldur's Gate.

 

[tuluse]

DX:HR was a decent shooter with broken stealth mechanics. It was made to be incredibly easy, with a ridiculously over-wrought story full of idiotic political blathering. It had more fucking vents and ducts than DX1, and everything was handed to you. The level design was decent, but with no significant penalties and/or differences between navigating them, what's the point?

DX1 mechanics were equally if not more broken. By the end of the game you could literally turn invisible and silent.

The biggest letdown for DX:HR was the story. One of the best parts of DX1 was finding out that the NSF goons you've been mowing down for the first quarter of the game are actually the good guys, that you're the government tool who has been sent in to clean out the annoying idealists. It is such a great twist, and I gurantee you that most people who played the game more than once treated the NSF differently after their first play through. Paul's admonitions that you're a cop, that you shouldn't just go around murdering people, have real weight to them because he's in on it, he knows what the NSF is doing and he's on their side. The game even lets you choose -- your brother, or your job?

The manipulated government soldier killing the poor resistance members is such a old trope that it's essentially played for laughs at the beginning of the Running Man (1987). You have to be seriously inexperienced in the genre to not see that twist coming a mile away. I felt HR played against convention and surprised me by not making Sarif an evil co-conspirator.

DX:HR doesn't even come close to approaching this level of depth or characterization.

The actually characters in HR are much more fleshed out with motivations beyond "rule the world" or "super idealized idea to save the world".

The bosses were plunked in from out of nowhere, and the game is filled with mooks that have no relation to the story beyond "They're the bad guy's soldiers," or "They're a private security firm."

This is tru-ish, but not a big deal because the bosses are inconsequential. I suppose there is some narrative-ludo separation when DX1 blended them well, but that's not actually a point in favor or against either games writing, just the blending.

In DX1, the reason you refrain from killing NSF guys is because you genuinely feel bad after realizing you've been a shithead this whole time. In DX:HR, you refrain from killing people because the game preaches to you that killing is wrong, in that uniquely annoying Canadian way of finger-wagging. And then it confusedly gives you no options but to kill the bosses (?!). If I'm being really pretentious, I'd say the game is a great analogy for the difference between American and Canadian political/philosophical aesthetics. American designers want you to do the wrong thing first, then use the emotional turmoil to teach you a lesson; in other words, you should be free to be a prick, until it hits you that you're actually being a prick. The French-Canadian way of doing business is to tell you what's right and what's wrong (you shouldn't kill the gangbangers, but you must kill these three flavorless bossgoons) and give you the illusion of choice between various options, all the while nagging you to fucking death with poorly disguised political sloganeering. They couldn't get out of their own fucking way to make the game.

You do have a good point there.

Aside from all of this, DX:HR has none of the charm of DX, none of the witty cheesiness that is so believable in a grimy cyberpunk world. Sure, combat in DX1 was kind of a mess, but at least you had choices. DX:HR gives you guns and quicktime, and that's it. So really, they just give you guns. The rest is all positioning and hitting the "Q" key at the right time, which is just supremely lazy. Oh, and your "ammo" for melee attacks ends up being candy bars. Great fucking work, guys. Top notch, game of the year.

Sniper, smg, pistol all felt very different to me. I think the "choices" are about the same.

I was really impressed with the game when it came out, and gave it a positive review on my blog years ago. But time has not been kind to it, especially when I can fire up my old copy of DX1 and be transported back to the ruined Statue of Liberty and a supercool dude with nanites coursing through his body, taking shit from no one. What does DX:HR offer as an alternative, but a whiny, gravelly voiced and soulless ex-Cop who wears goofy looking coats?

Some fantastically arranged set pieces (first mission where's possible to fail to save the hostages, fight to save Malik, escape from the ghetto apartments). Sneaking into the police station near the beginning is also p cool.

 

[CyberP]

DX1 [stealth] mechanics were equally if not more broken.
.

Sigh. No they fucking were not.

Replays are definitely in order here, or to just polish your supposed monocles. Actually look at the systems & mechanics you're comparing from all angles.

Mole-poppers, mole poppers everywhere.

 

[tuluse]

Sigh. No they fucking were not.

Replays are definitely in order here, or to just polish your supposed monocles. Actually look at the systems & mechanics you're comparing from all angles.

Mole-poppers, mole poppers everywhere.

In DX1 you can shoot people with a silenced gun from a vent shaft and they'll run around like chickens without their heads until you kill them.

 

[Decado]

DX:HR was a decent shooter with broken stealth mechanics. It was made to be incredibly easy, with a ridiculously over-wrought story full of idiotic political blathering. It had more fucking vents and ducts than DX1, and everything was handed to you. The level design was decent, but with no significant penalties and/or differences between navigating them, what's the point?

DX1 mechanics were equally if not more broken. By the end of the game you could literally turn invisible and silent.

I don't count that as broken, though. To get to that point you had to do several upgrades, and even still you would burn through your energy at a good rate to keep this trick up for very long. It is unbalanced, but nowhere near as instacheese as the Typhoon (just to list one example).

The biggest letdown for DX:HR was the story. One of the best parts of DX1 was finding out that the NSF goons you've been mowing down for the first quarter of the game are actually the good guys, that you're the government tool who has been sent in to clean out the annoying idealists. It is such a great twist, and I gurantee you that most people who played the game more than once treated the NSF differently after their first play through. Paul's admonitions that you're a cop, that you shouldn't just go around murdering people, have real weight to them because he's in on it, he knows what the NSF is doing and he's on their side. The game even lets you choose -- your brother, or your job?

The manipulated government soldier killing the poor resistance members is such a old trope that it's essentially played for laughs at the beginning of the Running Man (1987). You have to be seriously inexperienced in the genre to not see that twist coming a mile away. I felt HR played against convention and surprised me by not making Sarif an evil co-conspirator.

I guess this is just a matter of opinion. Waking up in the containment facility on level 4 of the UNATCO HQ was as a genuine WTF moment for me. When you say "inexperienced in the genre" I don't know what genre you mean -- sci-fi? Cyberpunk? Conspiracy? Anyway I think I'm fairly well-read/well-played, and it was a neat twist.

And while Sarif wasn't a co-conspirator, he felt like a boring corporate drone who cared about profits. Which is fine, if that's the character, but it doesn't give you an incentive to give a shit.

DX:HR doesn't even come close to approaching this level of depth or characterization.

The actually characters in HR are much more fleshed out with motivations beyond "rule the world" or "super idealized idea to save the world".

Well, this was the pulpy appeal of the story, to me. I liked that the bad guy wanted to take over the world with a universal constructor, that his opponent was basically a defeated political rival who was pissed he got left out, etc.

The bosses were plunked in from out of nowhere, and the game is filled with mooks that have no relation to the story beyond "They're the bad guy's soldiers," or "They're a private security firm."

This is tru-ish, but not a big deal because the bosses are inconsequential. I suppose there is some narrative-ludo separation when DX1 blended them well, but that's not actually a point in favor or against either games writing, just the blending.

It's definitely a writing issue, imo. Who are these people, and why am I fighting them? Why are they fighting me? Why does any of this matter, and who gives a shit? The motivations of DX1's protagonists may have been simplistic or what have you, but they were there.

In DX1, the reason you refrain from killing NSF guys is because you genuinely feel bad after realizing you've been a shithead this whole time. In DX:HR, you refrain from killing people because the game preaches to you that killing is wrong, in that uniquely annoying Canadian way of finger-wagging. And then it confusedly gives you no options but to kill the bosses (?!). If I'm being really pretentious, I'd say the game is a great analogy for the difference between American and Canadian political/philosophical aesthetics. American designers want you to do the wrong thing first, then use the emotional turmoil to teach you a lesson; in other words, you should be free to be a prick, until it hits you that you're actually being a prick. The French-Canadian way of doing business is to tell you what's right and what's wrong (you shouldn't kill the gangbangers, but you must kill these three flavorless bossgoons) and give you the illusion of choice between various options, all the while nagging you to fucking death with poorly disguised political sloganeering. They couldn't get out of their own fucking way to make the game.

You do have a good point there.

:respeckknuckles:

Aside from all of this, DX:HR has none of the charm of DX, none of the witty cheesiness that is so believable in a grimy cyberpunk world. Sure, combat in DX1 was kind of a mess, but at least you had choices. DX:HR gives you guns and quicktime, and that's it. So really, they just give you guns. The rest is all positioning and hitting the "Q" key at the right time, which is just supremely lazy. Oh, and your "ammo" for melee attacks ends up being candy bars. Great fucking work, guys. Top notch, game of the year.

Sniper, smg, pistol all felt very different to me. I think the "choices" are about the same.

I just have to disagree here, shooting was the same no matter the weapon -- kill guy, take cover, pop out, kill another guy, etc. The sniper rifle let you do it from farther away, but that's it. Also, the revolver was OP'd as fuck, especially with the explosive rounds. Almost as instacheesable ass the Typhoon.

I was really impressed with the game when it came out, and gave it a positive review on my blog years ago. But time has not been kind to it, especially when I can fire up my old copy of DX1 and be transported back to the ruined Statue of Liberty and a supercool dude with nanites coursing through his body, taking shit from no one. What does DX:HR offer as an alternative, but a whiny, gravelly voiced and soulless ex-Cop who wears goofy looking coats?

Some fantastically arranged set pieces (first mission where's possible to fail to save the hostages, fight to save Malik, escape from the ghetto apartments). Sneaking into the police station near the beginning is also p cool.

Yeah that was some cool stuff I guess. But none of it as memorable (to me) as escaping from Unatco HQ or breaking into Versalife, then escaping into the streets of Hong Kong, or jumping off a sinking ship.

 

[CyberP]

In DX1 you can shoot people with a silenced gun from a vent shaft and they'll run around like chickens without their heads until you kill them.

wat

If they have a melee weapon only, yes the AI run around like retards doing nothing. If they have a ranged weapon and meet the range parameters of that weapon they will shoot, else move closer to get a shot.

Ah, you're probably talking about the minHealth/fear behaviour. If you take their health below a certain value (usually 20-40) they do run around like headless chickens. Yes, the devs did go overboard with that (now fixed).

 

[Infinitron]

Let's take a look at the openings of Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

In Deus Ex, you start on a dock on a terrorist-infested island. Your brother approaches you, exchanges some pleasantries, and asks you if you want a rocket launcher, a sniper rifle or a mini-crossbow. And then it's off to blasting terrorists.

In Deus Ex: Human Revolution, you start in an office having a vaguely awkward moment with your ex-girlfriend, before going to meet your boss, who is just concluding a meeting with the company lawyer, to talk about an upcoming UN summit.

I can't imagine ever doing something like that in Deus Ex. And the reason for that is that Deus Ex was designed by 90s first person shooter guys who would never have even considered that something like that should be in a game.

And it's not just that the game would never begin like that - I mean, a lawyer. Is there actually any "lawyer" character in Deus Ex at all? I'm not sure there is. Lawyers are boring. 90s video game developers didn't think you'd ever want to meet a lawyer in a game. In DX:HR, you can break into his office and read his email. You learn that Sarif has terrible writing, full of typos. It's a nice touch. That's how they do it these days.

 

[CyberP]

"In DX:HR, you can go to his office and read his email inbox. You learn that Sarif has terrible writing, full of typos. It's a nice touch. That's how they do it these days."

wat

This is different to the writing in the datacubes, emails, news bulletins, newspapers & books in DX1 how? You get plenty character development from them in DX1.
The readables is another aspect that's done far better in DX1 in relation to the gameplay, with puzzles sometimes hidden within, no autofill passwords, no xp for just hacking instead of using the password.

DX1 absolutely destroys HR from nearly every angle, it's laughable that people think HR comes close let alone surpasses it.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Seriously though, you seem kind of obsessed with pointing out the notion of "limp-wristed Canadian game developers".

Yeah, I think I've seen him mention that several times but as far as I'm concerned he's right. Deus Ex is awesome in its campiness (especially if you grew up watching shows like X-files), even something as one of the toughest enemy types in the game being Men in Black (which is such a government enforcers stereotype) brings a smile to my face. Social issues on the other hand bore me to tears, how will augmentations affect the lives of ordinary men that refuse to be "enhanced" in such an unnatural way is something I just don't care about.

That's how they do it these days.

Yes, it's "Games trying to be movies" trend (which I utterly despise) that is so prevailent in modern gaming, where I always have to seat through some longass barely interactive cutscene before I can you know, play the damn game.

 

[Infinitron]

"In DX:HR, you can go to his office and read his email inbox. You learn that Sarif has terrible writing, full of typos. It's a nice touch. That's how they do it these days."

wat

This is different to the writing in the datacubes, emails, news bulletins, newspapers & books in DX1 how? You get plenty character development from them in DX1.
The readables is another aspect that's done far better in DX1 in relation to the gameplay, with puzzles sometimes hidden within, no autofill passwords, no xp for just hacking instead of using the password.

DX1 absolutely destroys HR from nearly every angle, it's laughable that people think HR comes close let alone surpasses it.

Oh, DX definitely has some of that stuff. You have a boss, and he has a secretary, and they get some characterization. But all that happens in a bunker full of troopers, not in the offices of a biotechnology corporation. So it's still more pulpy. (A game made in the 80s or early 90s would have been even pulpier.)

The DX:HR developers took the DX formula and evolved it further. I know it's a cliche, "take the oldschool formula and update it for our times", but really, that's what they did.

Lots of people respect DX:HR, just because it actually managed to do what AAA devs promise they'll do, instead of completely fucking things up like they usually do.

 

[Ninjerk]

Regarding the newer game being "Canadian," aren't there numerous emails in Sarif Ind. about the Red Wings? Can't remember if there were any about the Canadiens in the news station.

EDIT: ^ Infinitron 's latest post: It's as close as we may ever see to someone genuinely updating a franchise, but the similarities to MGS keep me from totally agreeing with that.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Oh, DX definitely has some of that stuff. You have a boss, and he has a secretary, and they get some characterization. But all that happens in a bunker full of troopers, not in a biotechnology corporation. So it's still more pulpy. (A game made in the 80s or early 90s would have been even pulpier.)

The DX:HR developers took the DX formula and evolved it further. I know it's a cliche, "take the oldschool formula and update it for our times", but really, that's what they did.

Lots of people respect DX:HR, just because it actually managed to do what AAA devs promise they'll do, instead of completely fucking things up like they usually do.

But what if I like pulp and modern times/art/media bore me? In that case, I may not look that favourably on such an "update".

 

[CyberP]

No, no no fucking no. It was fucked. It was butchered. Shat on. Fuck you.
As I said, it isn't Deus Ex. Even Fallout fucking 3 is a more faithful successor, you tards.

 

[Decado]

My beef with Canadian design studios -- and granted, I'm only including Bioware and Eidos Montreal in this equation -- is that they seem unable to talk about politics, or inject political sensibility into their games, without being hamfisted, preachy idiots. Whenever I play a game made by these studios I feel like I'm being lectured by some smuggo Canadian liberal.

It was especially bad because DX:HR was apparently made by Canadians who don't understand the US, or specific issues like racism in the US. For example, the idea that in the future, we would have white guys and black guys working together in the same gang (lol) when the primary demarcation for every gang in this country is racial/ethnic. It is just dumb, it shows a complete lack of understanding of contemporary American life. Or the idea that in the future, SWAT cops would actually chastise a fellow cop for killing gangbangers, as some of them will do when the mission in the factory is over, is just hilariously tone-deaf to what is actually going on this country.

 

[Gnidrologist]

It's definitely a writing issue, imo. Who are these people, and why am I fighting them? Why are they fighting me? Why does any of this matter, and who gives a shit? The motivations of DX1's protagonists may have been simplistic or what have you, but they were there.

Bosses in HR are simply elite soldiers that are tougher than others. I don't see why they necessary need to be plot critical. In fact, it makes much less sense, because ''real bosses'' don't engage in physical fistfights or shootouts.

I just have to disagree here, shooting was the same no matter the weapon -- kill guy, take cover, pop out, kill another guy, etc. The sniper rifle let you do it from farther away, but that's it. Also, the revolver was OP'd as fuck, especially with the explosive rounds. Almost as instacheesable ass the Typhoon.

In that case it was even more sameish in DX, not to mention even more easy. Although in reality, it weapons aren't that similar in neither game. Not best examples of good gunplay by no means, but had distinctive uses according to the situation. Oh, and didn't forget that DX was piss easy? Why do you repeat this critique against HR, while hush it up in DX's case?

As for plot, your preference for pulpy plot is just that, preference. Just like some people prefer 80s action movies against action movies from different decades. That shouldn't be brought up at all.